Vaccine
- Thread starter Multi Sport
- Start date
“You say things I don’t like and point out things about the study I don’t like. I don’t want to hear them so I’m just going to say you lie when you post a study and everything will be alright”.
Meh. There’s censorship. People have even come out and admitted they are self censoring for fear of there careers. That’s not science. That’s politics.
Reports this am that the Uk this morning Is considering changing the definition of fully vaxxed to include mandatory boosters. There’s been a heated debate in England over those that have been pushing boosters (but wanted to keep restrictions in place until everyone can get a mandated booster) and those that have been pushing a vaccine+ natural immunity approach. Looks like they are circling on “let’s marry both”.
Bruddah IZ
DA
That's socialism. Many years ago when I was posting about Venezuela, there were many who said that Venezuela couldn't happen in the U.S., until it did.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
It's more than censorship, it's also advocacy. This is where our "free" media is currently stationed.
EvilGoalie 21
GOLD
Meh. Peer review is generally more self-policing, not censorship. There's enough crap that gets through as it is. Journals hold little power anymore, except for the very top echelon. if you go far enough down the food chain as long as it's got a pulse somebody will be willing to publish it. The politics come in more with respect to funding, not pubs. And yeah that's a problem but welcome to life right. Works the other way around too, you can become beholden to the hand that feeds you. Better to stay on the poorer side and fight the good fight. So in this big cabal you're chasing down, we've got the CDC, the cigarette smoking man, who else is out there keeping the Truth hidden away, silencing these people you speak of? Seems like defining your enemy should be your first step. I mean, if you really believe this you could be emailing those people, what did they know, attack the belly from below.
Bruddah IZ
DA
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
Guess the mandates will have a little trouble in Oroville. What goes around ...
www.businessinsider.com
A California city council voted to make itself a 'Constitutional Republic City' to skirt state and federal orders it doesn't want to enforce
The city's vice mayor said the resolution was to "draw a line in the sand" against "a barrage of mandates." "Enough is enough," Scott Thomson said.
www.businessinsider.com
Bruddah IZ
DA
What’s horrifying about calls to bar unvaccinated five year olds from public spaces is the fact that this is being done to assauge the irrational anxieties of middle-aged adults.--G. Campbell
it's not the peer review which is even the entirety of the problem. It's that certain subjects are even taboo to be studied.
Such as?
EvilGoalie 21
GOLD
Ivermectin, masks? PubMed it for yourself. Tons of stuff. What are these taboo subjects? If extant studies ignore those subjects why do you keep focusing on the extant studies? I mean I quit reading all the cohort studies based on the little excercise we went through yesterday. But its not because they are somehow tainted or corrupted. They are just unable to track the relevant variables between the cohorts so its a big hot mess. But people keep doing it because they can publish it and if you can't generate heat generate noise. Whose enforcing these taboos? I guess it could be some kind of multi-national gestalt built into the very fabric of science itself but you seem to think it is a more insidious process.
You seem to be putting considerable effort into this, which is laudable. I mean if you can absorb info quickly and all that great. But if that information is corrupted, tainted or whatever you could read every single reference and not be getting to where you want to go with what you seem to be doing, which is effectively taking on an effort to evaluate a set of broad intersecting research fields. The CDC does it on one side with their considerable resources, Grace does it on the other. But for you maybe its barking up the wrong tree. If there are people with faces and names out there that are saying "I'm being silenced" that would seem to be your logical entry point. Contact them. That is how you will find out what you want to know. I'll stop. My apologies really. I just find what you are purporting to do interesting but yet at the same time in a kind of internal conflict with itself. But please keep going. If you are driven to search for hidden things, you just have to game up and go.
It's not a nefarious plot....it's the incentives. Now we're into the realm of economics and the impact of incentives on human behavior. In terms of the structure, there has been a lot of money to be made out of COVID. From the beginning, for example, Fauci heavily funneled money into studying vaccines, less money to study new drugs, and almost no money for repurposed medicines. Have you asked yourself why?
Masks are a similar story. Remember the story of lockdowns (at least in the west excluding the very severe initial lockdowns imposed by some of the Europeans) has been that white collar workers basically work from home, but blue collar workers (ranging not just in supermarkets and pharmacies garbage fire police and medical offices/hospitals, but also pot shops, liquor stores, constructions, plumbing, heading/air, fast food, restaurant take out, factories, and even retail) had to keep working. So you had the well off basically able to isolate but the not so well off forced to work. Needless to say some of the "essential workers" (among which remember teachers were too scared to work) were worried about spending long hours with coworkers and magically the government came out with "masks are better than vaccines"...and when the Danish study came out, it was pulled from publication twice (which the authors the study themselves attributed to the fact that there was censorship).
Then remember there was the entire CDC school reopenings guidance and it turned out one group which was drafting it was the teachers unions.
I know you might like to think that science is this purity, but when it gets mixed in with politics it's not, and it's terribly naive of you to assume it is (no doubt because being a part of that group, you want to think the best of it). It's not a grand conspiracy theory, but it does have to do with human incentives...and as I told dad4 before: I'm not interested in preaching....preachers have their role in society....I'm also not interested in the purity of the science....that's what people in the field are for....what I'm interested in is policy, but because of the failure of science, we are left with a paucity of conclusions, so lot's of people are guessing, and more often than not, those on team panic/safety have been more wrong than rightl
Bruddah IZ
DA
Yeah, the entry point is MANDATE first, figure out the Science later. But alas It Is Difficult to Get a Man to Understand Something When His Salary Depends Upon His Not Understanding It. — Upton..
p.s. I'm actually not putting in that much effort into it. As I've noted, one of the limitations which I will gladly cope to is that I don't have the time or interest to deep dive. I'm only interested to the extent it has any actual impact on policy, which i can in turn use to see where the future is going.
Breakthrough infections. I found that the Minnesota health department was tracking it (which I posted), but I really couldn't find much besides that.
How about this?
COVID-19 Vaccination
COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.
I googled covid breakthrough infections and this was the first of 47,000,000 returns.
what-happened
GOLD
How about this?
COVID-19 Vaccination
COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.www.cdc.gov
Ahhh, the CDC, AKA Floppy Noodle. And yes, they have a really tough job. Unfortunately they've been unable to stay out of the political spotlight for 20 months - making their job harder and planting the seed that they are not a reliable source of info.
Maybe next time they won't let administrations, campaigns, and big pharma be their marketing machine. Now they are questioned, mocked, ridiculed whenever new information is released.
EvilGoalie 21
GOLD
No. It's a human endeavor with its successes, failures, weaknesses, strengths, good, bad and the ugly. And I'd say it's because i see it that way that I'm not prone to this conspiratorial team this and team that, which I find curious. The thing about purity, whatever that means, is coming from you. You say that's not how you see it but, well, I have to say it sure sounds like it. Poking at it, however, can only be a good thing so keep going. All I'm saying is you may want to consider a different methodology because your current one does not seem to be making inroads.
depends on the function. Again, if you look at my track record, it's been much more solid than dad4s or anyone on team panic/safety. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
And no, you can't just justify the limitations as "well, it's a human endeavor so it's flawed". You have to poke at it and ask why is it flawed... and that's where you come to incentives.
I've told the story before. My son and I played a LARP at Disneyland. The game, though, was broken and so the gamedesigners kept trying to jigger with it. But what was frustrating for them was that every time they did that, people would respond to the incentives by finding new ways to break the game. I loved that experience...I wish every econ student could experience it...humans are wonderful (both rational and panicky) creatures that respond to incentives. They never were able to fix it, just produce different outcomes based on the incentives placed. Again, the reason you don't see this is because of the difference in our training....mine is to look at policy from a critical outlook....yours is to study a particular subject matter and try and determine a truth. This perspective is both your strength and limitation, but it's a limitation shared by many on team panic/safety, which is why so often they've failed.