Vaccine

[Grace T.]

I can't help but point out that again, as usual, you are using an unproven assertion to further later arguments.

Do you think no one is going to notice? Do you yourself know that you are doing it?

You know I used to do Oxford debate back in high school too. The thing I realized about Oxford is you go down a rabbit hole of rules and procedures that you begin not to make any sense. It's why I switched to parliamentary. I thought the entire Oxford thing was just a spectacle, with a bunch of people trying to rattle off things and make points. It actually makes you a very poor debater out there in the real world.

But I still think it's funny you think we are actually "debating" (see the quotes there again). Another snort for you.

 

[espola]

You know I used to do Oxford debate back in high school too. The thing I realized about Oxford is you go down a rabbit hole of rules and procedures that you begin not to make any sense. It's why I switched to parliamentary. I thought the entire Oxford thing was just a spectacle, with a bunch of people trying to rattle off things and make points. It actually makes you a very poor debater out there in the real world.

But I still think it's funny you think we are actually "debating" (see the quotes there again). Another snort for you.

Formal Forensics as a class or club activity is used to teach people by demonstration and criticism ways to think clearly and make convincing argument ts. I guess it didn't help.

Please continue.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Cases are useful not for themselves, but as a leading indicator of hospitalizations and deaths. It’s the hospitalizations and deaths that are the problem.

The three are not decoupled. The ratio has just changed over the long term. But a short term doubling of cases still means you can expect more hospitalizations and deaths, too.

Delta has yielded more cases but consistently lower IFR yoy with last September being pre-vax and more masking!!

 

[kickingandscreaming]

I blame the fact that there is even an anti-vaxer movement.

Is this an "old man yells at clouds" moment? The best way to approach this is with honest, open leadership, not paternalistic, hypocritical douchebags who preach one thing about policy but live another. The more "red lines" that get drawn around individual choices, the larger the group of ... deplorables(?) becomes. It doesn't help. Quite the contrary, it makes governing more difficult as you may have noticed.

 

[Kicker4Life]

Sure, but what are you going to say...."Ok everyone, lose weight, fast"

Well we’ve know Obesity is one of the HIGHEST risk factors for oat least a year. Have you seen one single mention of it in all the CDC rhetoric or from the media? No, it’s always and only been “vaccines”, why? That is the part I just don’t understand.

A key argument for vaccines is to reduce the strain on hospitals. Well wouldn’t something as simple as diet and exercise have a very similar affect at a reduced cost to our government and overall healthcare industry?

I would think of that message had started back in July of LY we would also be a much healthier nation.

To me adding a BMI scale to the entrance of businesses isn’t much different than having to show a Vaccine card, but that’s my opinion.

Thank you for a civil dialogue!

 

[watfly]

I don't actually blame the individuals. I blame the fact that there is even an anti-vaxer movement. I blame the misinformation overload and the grifters on MSM who laid doubt. You know who these people are. You're smart. I don't blame many of these people who haven't gotten vaccinated when they've been inundated with misinformation from sources they've historically trusted.

There is plenty of misinformation on all sides. However, somehow pro-vax misinformation is more acceptable because it "errs on the side of caution". Again I appreciate that science changes over time but the pace its changing and doing 180's is rightfully going to lead to skepticism. Look at the guidance on boosters. Can we label Dad4 an anti-vaxxer because he is not in favor of a booster?

Having said that, I believe we should blame the individual. We were given a brain for a reason, although some work better than others. Ultimately we each have to wade through the info and decide what's best for our family. Is that selfish to put family first, maybe, but I strongly believe that my duty is first to my family ahead of the community. The community has all sorts of tools along with the responsibility to protect itself outside of what's happening in my family. Of course, I'm not condoning reckless behavior. If I'm sick I'm not going out to the market because I need to feed my family. That's been the biggest problem with our Covid health policy is the lack of focus on the sick and vulnerable, but instead focusing on blanket approaches that obscure the true problem.

 

[espola]

Well we’ve know Obesity is one of the HIGHEST risk factors for oat least a year. Have you seen one single mention of it in all the CDC rhetoric or from the media? No, it’s always and only been “vaccines”, why? That is the part I just don’t understand.

A key argument for vaccines is to reduce the strain on hospitals. Well wouldn’t something as simple as diet and exercise have a very similar affect at a reduced cost to our government and overall healthcare industry?

I would think of that message had started back in July of LY we would also be a much healthier nation.

To me adding a BMI scale to the entrance of businesses isn’t much different than having to show a Vaccine card, but that’s my opinion.

Thank you for a civil dialogue!

Getting vaccinated, including signing in, getting the shot, and waiting while they watch for reactions takes about half an hour. How much weight can you lose in half an hour?

 

[crush]

I don't actually blame the individuals. I blame the fact that there is even an anti-vaxer movement. I blame the misinformation overload and the grifters on MSM who laid doubt. You know who these people are. You're smart. I don't blame many of these people who haven't gotten vaccinated when they've been inundated with misinformation from sources they've historically trusted.

U R BRAINWASHED. Get out of the cult asap. Boosters forever for you. I WILL NEVER PUT THAT SHIT IN MY ARM FROM WUHAN AND DR. FRAUD AND HIS PALS BILL & JEFFREY. I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU, I TRULY MADLY AND DEELY DO FEEL SORRY FOR YOU.

WHY DONT YOU AND YUR VAX PALS PLAY THIS SONG TOETHER IN YOUR SPA AFTER YOUR BIKE RIDE. I HOE YOUR HAPPY WITH ALL YOUR SHOTS AND BOOSTERS......WADFUHB!!!

 

[Bruddah IZ]

I don't actually blame the individuals. I blame the fact that there is even an anti-vaxer movement. I blame the misinformation overload and the grifters on MSM who laid doubt. You know who these people are. You're smart. I don't blame many of these people who haven't gotten vaccinated when they've been inundated with misinformation from sources they've historically trusted.

Funny how you guys have it all backwards. The anti-vax folks have been around for at least 30 years. It is the bizzaro Anti-immune system movement that is new. Lol! No need to lay blame btw. The blame is well established.

Reminder: The CDC/NIH/Fauci-backed pause of the J&J vaccine did more to invigorate vaccine hesitancy in the US than any other factor.

 

[watfly]

Well we’ve know Obesity is one of the HIGHEST risk factors for oat least a year. Have you seen one single mention of it in all the CDC rhetoric or from the media? No, it’s always and only been “vaccines”, why? That is the part I just don’t understand.

A key argument for vaccines is to reduce the strain on hospitals. Well wouldn’t something as simple as diet and exercise have a very similar affect at a reduced cost to our government and overall healthcare industry?

I would think of that message had started back in July of LY we would also be a much healthier nation.

To me adding a BMI scale to the entrance of businesses isn’t much different than having to show a Vaccine card, but that’s my opinion.

Thank you for a civil dialogue!

This is what Fauci said in 2019. It's pre-pandemic so it's not entirely fair, but the concept is the same:

“And the best way to prevent me from getting an infectious disease and having to have you as my doctor is what? Wearing a mask — ” he began, triggering a quick dismissal from Fauci.

“No, no, no,” Fauci said, letting out a laugh.

“I don’t need to do that,” Rubenstein said following Fauci’s reaction. “If somebody’s– I can see they’re getting ready to sneeze or cough, walk away?”

“You avoid all the paranoid aspects and do something positive,” Fauci responded, seemingly categorizing mask-wearing as a tool of the “paranoid.”

“A. Good diet. B. You don’t smoke, I know. I know you don’t drink. At least not very much, so that’s pretty good. Get some exercise. I know that you don’t get as much exercise as you should,” Fauci continued.

“Get good sleep. I think the normal, low tech healthy things are the best things you can do, David, to stay healthy,” Fauci added.

Obviously, just telling people to get in better shape wasn't going to solve the pandemic, but it should have been part of the recommendations. Staying home was the worst advice ever. It should have been get outside and get some exercise. Instead we closed public parks, arrested people for paddle boarding and cited parents for taking their kids to the neighborhood park.

 

[Kicker4Life]

Getting vaccinated, including signing in, getting the shot, and waiting while they watch for reactions takes about half an hour. How much weight can you lose in half an hour?

Always easier to look for a quick fix rather than a lifestyle change.

Let me ask you this, will a Vaccine reduce your risk of Heart Disease, diabetes or any other of the multitude of medical conditions closely associated with Obesity?

Yah…god forbid you get off your ass and do something for a change. To many people to troll, right?

 

[crush]

If Grace has actually put you on ignore, it's a shame that she is missing this.

Thanks for talking to yourself Espola. Golden Gate, Long Game and the great EOTL ((maybe Husker Du is all of these angry old men all in one?)) needs to come out today and debate crush and IZ and Grace T

 

[Desert Hound]

Even for delta R for a masked, vaccinated population is below 1. If the unmasked ad unvaccinated people had been willing to do their part, we would not even have a delta surge.

Fantasy land.

Delta is all around the world. In countries with high vax rates and lower vax rates. In countries with high mask compliance and with those with lower compliance.

In other words the interventions didn't help. The virus still spread.

Keep pretending that wearing a mask will stop the spread. Keep pretending that the virus won't spread if everyone has a vax (we already know vaxxed transmit the virus).

Stop living in make believe land where if everyone just wore a mask and everyone was vaxxed the virus would disappear. We have billions of people on this planet that havent even had one shot.

 

[what-happened]

There are a lot of variables but socioeconomics is one.

It's the #1 reason or close to it. No one wants to talk about it, it hits too close to agendas for many. I don't know about CA, but the outreach in my neck of the woods for the hispanic population is weak at best: 20% vaccinated, 40% of cases, 25% of deaths. Public health is now a political weapon.

 

[NorCalDad]

Always easier to look for a quick fix rather than a lifestyle change.

Let me ask you this, will a Vaccine reduce your risk of Heart Disease, diabetes or any other of the multitude of medical conditions closely associated with Obesity?

Yah…god forbid you get off your ass and do something for a change. To many people to troll, right?

Interestingly enough, the Bay Area has 7 of the top 10 healthiest counties in CA. I think there's a whole can of worms related to the BMI discussion. Some of it socioeconomic as @watfly pointed out earlier. It's a lot cheaper to eat shitty. I think this was discussed a bit in "Super Size Me". It does sadden me a bit that a pandemic would need to be the trigger that gets people change their eating habits, when the statistics that existed prior to the virus were already pretty awful.

 

[Grace T.]

Formal Forensics as a class or club activity is used to teach people by demonstration and criticism ways to think clearly and make convincing argument ts. I guess it didn't help.

Please continue.

Dude I was one of the state finalists.

 

[crush]

Public health is now a political weapon.

Yup. Dad, Espola, Husker, Golden Gate, Roadrunner, EOTL, Messy, NocalDad and a few others find it find & dandy to have ER Dr refuse me help if I come in with gunshot wound and no vax. These fuckers ((sorry, I just had it out with another ex pal who hates me now)) are the most selfish pricks ever to live on the planet and would rather have me die alone in hospital. Pay back karma is real and it will hit these men in da fcae when the time is right. Bribes & blackmail with the threat of looking bad from a pic or worse means more to them then the truth. I do feel sorry for the one's who have been threaten with love one thrown in Woodchipper.

 

[dad4]

Always easier to look for a quick fix rather than a lifestyle change.

Let me ask you this, will a Vaccine reduce your risk of Heart Disease, diabetes or any other of the multitude of medical conditions closely associated with Obesity?

Yah…god forbid you get off your ass and do something for a change. To many people to troll, right?

Any reason I can't do both? I got vaxxed, and am trying to lose ten pounds.

The two are not in conflict, I think. Or is the vaccine the reason I only lost 4 so far?

 

[dad4]

Dude I was one of the state finalists.

No nationals or double ruby pin? Lightweight.

 

[watfly]

It's the #1 reason or close to it. No one wants to talk about it, it hits too close to agendas for many. I don't know about CA, but the outreach in my neck of the woods for the hispanic population is weak at best: 20% vaccinated, 40% of cases, 25% of deaths. Public health is now a political weapon.

That's interesting because in SD County the highest vaccinated race/ethnicity group are Hispanics at 74.5%. Asian is next at 70.8%, White 64.1% and African American at 46.3%. (note that not all vaccinations have been identified by race and percentages are actually higher since SD County is overall 78.2% vaccinated.)

 

[espola]

Always easier to look for a quick fix rather than a lifestyle change.

Let me ask you this, will a Vaccine reduce your risk of Heart Disease, diabetes or any other of the multitude of medical conditions closely associated with Obesity?

Yah…god forbid you get off your ass and do something for a change. To many people to troll, right?

I agree we should all (on average) lose a little weight. I don't see how that can be used as a rebuttal to follow safe practices in the endemic.

The period of time in which I lost with the most quickly was when my COPD was at its worst, eventually sending me to a night in the hospital. When they weighed me, I was surprised to be 35 pounds down from what I thought was too heavy, but still comfortable. It was dramatically effective, but I wouldn't recommend it as a means for most people.

And I have usually been pretty fit, to the point of being skinny, I gained 20 pounds in Navy boot camp, very little of it fat.