Vaccine

[espola]

Putting the words security theater in quotes really tells us a lot about you.

I was quoting you, in proper grammatical style.

 

[espola]

Some people may not need to get vaccinated (particularly if they have a confirmed PCr test and a relatively high antibody count). We are really arguing about the roughly 15% of the population that haven’t been exposed

plus we know the vaccine is not full proof to stop symptoms or transmission 100%. It may be as low as 40% for some vaccines.

"...we know..."?

(please note those tricky quotation marks again(

 

[Bruddah IZ]

I don't think we can look at blanket number for the US. My county is highly vaccinated. Our hospitals are fine. Cases are still happening but it's not a big deal and nobody is dying -- at least not like it was pre-vaccine. I'm not convinced all the other states have plateaued just yet. Getting those hotspots vaccinated would be huge and would avoid a lot collateral damage. It's unfortunate the anti-vaxer movement even came about, at least at the scale we've seen. I don't think we'd even be having this conversation right now had people just done the right thing.

It's unfortunate the anti-immune system movement even came about. The anti-vax movement has been around for at least 30 years and scaled up during this pandemic because of the anti-immune system crowd. I don't think we'd even be having this conversation right now had government treated the common cold Corona virus like it does all the others.

 

[crush]

Look what this ass just said. I now see that the obese and super unhealthy man with a mask was shamming my beautiful wife yesterday and telling her to sit somewhere else. This morning, I went to the Union Grocery store and I was told to please wear mask. I was shocked. The mask is back and just wait for what they release next folks. This will never end until Robert the Bruce wakes his ass up and picks right this time. The easy road is the wrong road. If it's hard and tough but worth the fight, then it's right

CNN's Don Lemon calls on Americans to shun 'stupid' unvaccinated people: 'Leave them behind'
'It's time to start shaming them'

"I think we have to stop coddling people when it comes to … the vaccines, saying ‘Oh you can’t shame them. You can’t call them stupid.' Yes, they are. The people who aided and abetted Trump are stupid because they believed his big lie," Lemon said, making an unclear comparison between former President Donald Trump and ongoing vaccine hesitancy within some communities. "The people who are not getting vaccines who are believing the lies on the internet instead of science, it's time to start shaming them or leave them behind."

"People talk about, well I don’t know what’s in the shot. I don’t know what’s in that shot … Do you know what they get shots in nowadays? In their rear ends. They’re getting shots to make it bigger. They’re getting shots in their face. They don’t know what's in Botox. They don’t know what's in this stuff," he said.

Lemon seemed to admit that he also received at least one previous Botox injection before saying that there was nothing wrong with taking one.

 

[Grace T.]

I don't think we can look at blanket number for the US. My county is highly vaccinated. Our hospitals are fine. Cases are still happening but it's not a big deal and nobody is dying -- at least not like it was pre-vaccine. I'm not convinced all the other states have plateaued just yet. Getting those hotspots vaccinated would be huge and would avoid a lot collateral damage. It's unfortunate the anti-vaxer movement even came about, at least at the scale we've seen. I don't think we'd even be having this conversation right now had people just done the right thing.

Well, it's not just about people doing the right thing. The experts have failed us too: the J&J pause, the reluctance to be frank about the myocarditis risk in mRNA vaccines, the failure to acknowledge or study in depth natural immunity, the waffling on pregnant women, the failure to take seriously the complaints re women's cycles, the mixed messaging about whether vaccines work, the failure to reach out and empathize with minority communities, the prior lies with make people skeptical of the authorities ("masks are better than vaccines", the flip flop on masks, 2 weeks to slow the spread), the fact that Pfizer is the only option available for the under 18, the politicking on boosters and now Biden's EO which will just cause the die hards to dig in their heels and conservatives concerned with the Constitution to sympathize with them. Frankly, given the US skepticism towards authority, and the track record of the experts, I'm frankly surprised to see it as high as it is.

I agree with the approach not looking at a blanket number for the US. I think we also can't look at it at a blanket by age group (and some of those 40-65 which are still somewhat vulnerable have not vaxxed). I think looking at the rates for 20s and unders isn't as useful (at least not with current variants). I think this also leads to the conclusion that places like San Francisco (with high compliance) or Los Angeles and NYC (with a combination of compliance and natural immunity) are also the most over the top with their regulations where they do the least good.

 

[espola]

Well, it's not just about people doing the right thing. The experts have failed us too: the J&J pause, the reluctance to be frank about the myocarditis risk in mRNA vaccines, the failure to acknowledge or study in depth natural immunity, the waffling on pregnant women, the failure to take seriously the complaints re women's cycles, the mixed messaging about whether vaccines work, the failure to reach out and empathize with minority communities, the prior lies with make people skeptical of the authorities ("masks are better than vaccines", the flip flop on masks, 2 weeks to slow the spread), the fact that Pfizer is the only option available for the under 18, the politicking on boosters and now Biden's EO which will just cause the die hards to dig in their heels and conservatives concerned with the Constitution to sympathize with them. Frankly, given the US skepticism towards authority, and the track record of the experts, I'm frankly surprised to see it as high as it is.

I agree with the approach not looking at a blanket number for the US. I think we also can't look at it at a blanket by age group (and some of those 40-65 which are still somewhat vulnerable have not vaxxed). I think looking at the rates for 20s and unders isn't as useful (at least not with current variants). I think this also leads to the conclusion that places like San Francisco (with high compliance) or Los Angeles and NYC (with a combination of compliance and natural immunity) are also the most over the top with their regulations where they do the least good.

It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you.

 

[crush]

Two days of pay if you get the Jabber doo at SW Air. What a nice place to work and so willing to pay for people to get injected. Let's not forget, kids fly free and now you get two days off of free pay if you're a team player and roll the sleeve up by Nov 15th. I can;t believe I'm writing this out and it's a true story. Yikes!!!

Airline Boss: Yo Smelly, you want some extra $$$ to take that little trip with your wife you always dreamed bout?

Smelly: Did I get the raise boss man?

Boss: Hell no.

Smelly: Did the fellas get me a cash present for my bday that is coming up next month

Boss: No way. Take jab and get paid for two days.

Think everyone. Slow down and think if this makes any sense? This take pay to take jab is getting weirder by the day. I wake up wondering what shoe will drop at Camp Justice.

 

[Grace T.]

Well, it's not just about people doing the right thing. The experts have failed us too: the J&J pause, the reluctance to be frank about the myocarditis risk in mRNA vaccines, the failure to acknowledge or study in depth natural immunity, the waffling on pregnant women, the failure to take seriously the complaints re women's cycles, the mixed messaging about whether vaccines work, the failure to reach out and empathize with minority communities, the prior lies with make people skeptical of the authorities ("masks are better than vaccines", the flip flop on masks, 2 weeks to slow the spread), the fact that Pfizer is the only option available for the under 18, the politicking on boosters and now Biden's EO which will just cause the die hards to dig in their heels and conservatives concerned with the Constitution to sympathize with them. Frankly, given the US skepticism towards authority, and the track record of the experts, I'm frankly surprised to see it as high as it is.

I agree with the approach not looking at a blanket number for the US. I think we also can't look at it at a blanket by age group (and some of those 40-65 which are still somewhat vulnerable have not vaxxed). I think looking at the rates for 20s and unders isn't as useful (at least not with current variants). I think this also leads to the conclusion that places like San Francisco (with high compliance) or Los Angeles and NYC (with a combination of compliance and natural immunity) are also the most over the top with their regulations where they do the least good.

Not saying it's you, but some of the people on the pro-mask/pro-mandate/pro-lockdown side of things don't seem to realize that you guys are essentially scape goating the unvaccinated. Yes, there's a problem with some unvaccinated (particularly those from 30-65 that are clogging up the hospitals). But no, given what's going on with breakthroughs, it's not all the unvaccinated's fault. I know as humans we need someone to blame. We all had our hopes up that this would be over by July 4. Even dad4 proudly proclaimed it would be over in a couple weeks. Now that it's not, we need someone to blame and the unvaxxed are a convenient target.

 

[Grace T.]

"...we know..."?

(please note those tricky quotation marks again(

You actually claiming the vaccine is working perfectly? You always make me laugh, unlike good old EOTL.

 

[dad4]

Because I’ve seen it with my own eyes on airplanes. If you allow food and drink some adults cheat and just wear it for take off and landing. It’s the same as masks in restaurants at bars restaurants and theaters. It’s security theater. Tormenting the 2 year old is doing nothing if you aren’t enforcing it against the adults…particularly as the Mom here is trying to comply while the adult is actively cheating

security theater with collateral damage is worse than actually sticking to your principles and enforcing rules that make sense (but hey then you are back to no indoor dining). Or you know you could get in line with the rest of the world and at least exempt kids five and under (a 2 year old having about as much control as a moderately autistic 12 year old)

I am not saying that people won’t cheat on the rules. Clearly, they do.

I am saying what the hell is wrong with you people. We have 650,000 people dead from this, and people are still trying to find ways and excuses to avoid doing their part to help.

 

[espola]

Not saying it's you, but some of the people on the pro-mask/pro-mandate/pro-lockdown side of things don't seem to realize that you guys are essentially scape goating the unvaccinated. Yes, there's a problem with some unvaccinated (particularly those from 30-65 that are clogging up the hospitals). But no, given what's going on with breakthroughs, it's not all the unvaccinated's fault. I know as humans we need someone to blame. We all had our hopes up that this would be over by July 4. Even dad4 proudly proclaimed it would be over in a couple weeks. Now that it's not, we need someone to blame and the unvaxxed are a convenient target.

It's not "scapegoating" if they really are the core of the problem.

 

[espola]

You actually claiming the vaccine is working perfectly? You always make me laugh, unlike good old EOTL.

Another strawman.

No surprise, either -- it seems that you think that that is an effective tactic. It doesn't work with intelligent people or those who are onto your game.

 

[Grace T.]

I am not saying that people won’t cheat on the rules. Clearly, they do.

I am saying what the hell is wrong with you people. We have 650,000 people dead from this, and people are still trying to find ways and excuses to avoid doing their part to help.

In the airline case, it's not the adult's fault. They are just bending a rule already put in place (and which BTW is the same situation they see right now with indoor dining). You think it's important not to do theater and to actually mask people, ban food and drinks on airplanes. You think it's important to wear masks indoor in high risk situations, ban indoor dining and bars. You don't wanna though because you know people wouldn't support that, so we're left with theater.

 

[Grace T.]

It's not "scapegoating" if they really are the core of the problem.

First, what's the problem you are trying to solve.

Second, no they aren't. The issue is the vaccines despite the initial hope are not 100% effective against symptoms/transmissions....maybe not enough in the high %s....even folks like dad4 wanted it over by July 4 and now they are looking for people to blame.

 

[espola]

In the airline case, it's not the adult's fault. They are just bending a rule already put in place (and which BTW is the same situation they see right now with indoor dining). You think it's important not to do theater and to actually mask people, ban food and drinks on airplanes. You think it's important to wear masks indoor in high risk situations, ban indoor dining and bars. You don't wanna though because you know people wouldn't support that, so we're left with theater.

You make an unsupported claim and then use that as evidence in later arguments.

Just trying to be helpful here -- maybe you don't know you are doing it.

 

[crush]

Golden Gate, please come out to debate me. Espola and Dad are back up to their old tricks again. Blame it on the rain or me is find and dandy. God knows the truth and so does the NSA and Space Force. They have it all, nowhere to run and nowhere to hide losers.

 

[espola]

First, what's the problem you are trying to solve.

Second, no they aren't. The issue is the vaccines despite the initial hope are not 100% effective against symptoms/transmissions....maybe not enough in the high %s....even folks like dad4 wanted it over by July 4 and now they are looking for people to blame.

The people to blame are those who are convincing others not to wear masks in risky situations and not to get vaccinated.

Do you know anyone like that?

 

[Bruddah IZ]

I am not saying that people won’t cheat on the rules. Clearly, they do.

I am saying what the hell is wrong with you people. We have 650,000 people dead from this, and people are still trying to find ways and excuses to avoid doing their part to help.

Reminder: The CDC/NIH/Fauci-backed pause of the J&J vaccine did more to invigorate vaccine hesitancy in the US than any other factor.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

The people to blame are those who are convincing others not to wear masks in risky situations and not to get vaccinated.

Do you know anyone like that?

Strawman

 

[Grace T.]

Another strawman.

No surprise, either -- it seems that you think that that is an effective tactic. It doesn't work with intelligent people or those who are onto your game.

a. the fact that you put yourself in the "intelligent people" category made me snort. Like how I used the quotes?
b. you still don't know what a strawman is. It's what you questioned directly.
c. you yourself just ducked the issue.
d. again, you pulled another Magoo.

 

[dad4]

Not saying it's you, but some of the people on the pro-mask/pro-mandate/pro-lockdown side of things don't seem to realize that you guys are essentially scape goating the unvaccinated. Yes, there's a problem with some unvaccinated (particularly those from 30-65 that are clogging up the hospitals). But no, given what's going on with breakthroughs, it's not all the unvaccinated's fault. I know as humans we need someone to blame. We all had our hopes up that this would be over by July 4. Even dad4 proudly proclaimed it would be over in a couple weeks. Now that it's not, we need someone to blame and the unvaxxed are a convenient target.

Even for delta R for a masked, vaccinated population is below 1. If the unmasked ad unvaccinated people had been willing to do their part, we would not even have a delta surge.

People are blaming the unmasked and unvaccinated because the unmasked and unvaccinated are causing the current problem. If you don’t like being blamed, the pharmacy will sell you a mask and give you a shot for free. Then you can be part of the solution instead of just making things worse.