Vaccine

dad4 said:
If you look back, a lot of grandmas and grandpas did die. About a million of them.

The people saying “you’re killing grandma” were correct.

We can talk about whether we should have opened schools and closed other things. But opening schools with no vaccine and no other precautions would have accelerated the fall 2020 wave.

The people arguing for open schools and closed bars have a very good point. The people arguing for open everything with no vaccine are living in fantasy land. If we had done that, we would have had far more deaths.
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The only one whom”killed grandma” was the policy makers forcing sick elders to stay in homes where they could not really be taken care of.

Telling a child “your killing grandma” is another reason so many of our youth are still struggling with mental health issues.
 
Kicker 2.0 said:
The only one whom”killed grandma” was the policy makers forcing sick elders to stay in homes where they could not really be taken care of.

Telling a child “your killing grandma” is another reason so many of our youth are still struggling with mental health issues.
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Why just one cause?

Returning patients to nursing homes caused deaths. Opening adult hospitality caused deaths. Both were bad decisions.
 
dad4 said:
Watfly is correct that he advocated early for opening up for kids.
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More importantly pediatricians, you know the doctors that actually treat kids, we're the ones advocating for in-person schooling. I just thought it was basic common sense. Unfortunately politics, fear and scientific arrogance prevented it from happening in most states.

The organization I'm involved with started reopening its youth services clubhouses full time in June 2020 so kids had a safe, active and social place to go during the pandemic. I'm told they didn't kill any grandmas. If they could do it, schools could do it.
 
Pollo Elastico said:
So you are now claiming you didn't advocate closing schools and colleges?

Is that the lie you are now trying to peddle?
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No. I am saying my primary concern was closing high transmission venues for adults.

Schools were not really on my radar.

Or yours, for that matter.
 
watfly said:
More importantly pediatricians, you know the doctors that actually treat kids, we're the ones advocating for in-person schooling. I just thought it was basic common sense. Unfortunately politics, fear and scientific arrogance prevented it from happening in most states.

The organization I'm involved with started reopening its youth services clubhouses full time in June 2020 so kids had a safe, active and social place to go during the pandemic. I'm told they didn't kill any grandmas. If they could do it, schools could do it.
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More likely, some people did get covid and die as a result of opening youth services. But they should have been opened anyway.
 
dad4 said:
they should have been opened anyway.
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For the record, Dad4 supported school openings.

There were differences of opinion on how, indoor vs outdoor, masked or not, etc. as well as a difference of timing (Fall of 2020 vs Fall of 2021).

Now everyone can go back to talking past one another.
 
dad4 said:
No. I am saying my primary concern was closing high transmission venues for adults.

Schools were not really on my radar.

Or yours, for that matter.
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Schools were very much on your radar and everyone else's here since we all have kids in school.

And there was much talk about it.

You thought it was crazy schools were open in AZ and other states. This despite the evidence showing kids were not at risk, etc.

A lot of pixels on that back and forth between you and other school closure people vs ones who wanted kids in class.
 
N00B said:
For the record, Dad4 supported school openings.

There were differences of opinion on how, indoor vs outdoor, masked or not, etc. as well as a difference of timing (Fall of 2020 vs Fall of 2021).

Now everyone can go back to talking past one another.
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That's fair. But the timing is everything. You can say I supported school closures because I supported the closures in the spring of 20 but by summer had been advocating for their reopening. He at first wasn't into just "close indoor dining" like he claims to be peddling now...he wanted everything shut and hard...the turning point came when he wanted to participate in an out of state tournament and Newsom was cracking down on travel sports (which IIRC was midway into the fall of 20 because sports were still shut down and the fall season didn't launch til spring of 21).

And BTW, not speaking up for school reopenings and remaining silent while the lockdown clan was calling for their closures is just a few degrees less bad than vocally calling for their closures. As I recall, the rationalization was, to paraphrase, "adults are insisting on their bars and indoor dining" therefore Newsom didn't have a choice but to press the levers he did. I know a conversation always degenerates and hits rock bottom when Nazis are mentioned, but I do point out that the defense "yeah I knew what the Nazis were doing but I never supported them and I myself never rounded them up" wasn't a very good defense either.
 
Grace T. said:
. You can say I supported school closures because I supported the closures in the spring of 20 but by summer had been advocating for their reopening. He at first wasn't into just "close indoor dining" like he claims to be peddling now...he wanted everything shut and hard...the turning point came when he wanted to participate in an out of state tournament and Newsom was cracking down on travel sports (which IIRC was midway into the fall of 20 because sports were still shut down and the fall season didn't launch til spring of 21).
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Your memory is correct Grace T.
 
Pollo Elastico said:
Your memory is correct Grace T.
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Yes, Grace T has excellent memory and is right, again....!!!! We now have almost three years of avatars like dad who went all in with lockdown, full mask, no jab=no job, all deaths are Covid and now deaths are non of anyone's biz. MAGA sheep and for folks like crush lost the ability to make a living, earn a living wage and so much more. Small biz lost 2 years worth of $$$ and will never get back to the way things were. Damage done forever and nowhere to get help. All help goes to students only and the teachers who teach them. No jab. no kids allowed to play sports in college. The pressure to participate and be liked by the likes of these psychopaths on here is not worth it all at.
 
Grace T. said:
That's fair. But the timing is everything. You can say I supported school closures because I supported the closures in the spring of 20 but by summer had been advocating for their reopening. He at first wasn't into just "close indoor dining" like he claims to be peddling now...he wanted everything shut and hard...the turning point came when he wanted to participate in an out of state tournament and Newsom was cracking down on travel sports (which IIRC was midway into the fall of 20 because sports were still shut down and the fall season didn't launch til spring of 21).

And BTW, not speaking up for school reopenings and remaining silent while the lockdown clan was calling for their closures is just a few degrees less bad than vocally calling for their closures. As I recall, the rationalization was, to paraphrase, "adults are insisting on their bars and indoor dining" therefore Newsom didn't have a choice but to press the levers he did. I know a conversation always degenerates and hits rock bottom when Nazis are mentioned, but I do point out that the defense "yeah I knew what the Nazis were doing but I never supported them and I myself never rounded them up" wasn't a very good defense either.
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Shut everything and then open the safer stuff. Sounds right for March 2020 through Feb 2021. After Feb 2021 I was in favor of vaccine passports as a way to open places with higher transmission risk.

That is, of course, not what we did. “Shut everything, then open the adult stuff.“ is a better description.
 
dad4 said:
That is, of course, not what we did. “Shut everything, then open the adult stuff.“ is a better description.
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Not litigating the past like others, but it’s pretty clear who made those decisions on behalf of the public.

It was not the posters on this forum.
 
dad4 said:
After Feb 2021 I was in favor of vaccine passports as a way to open places with higher transmission risk.
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So that is the authoritarian again in you. Papers to live ones life. Vaxx mandates.

All things gov has backed off because it wasn't feasible, nor does it stop the spread.
 
Pollo Elastico said:
So that is the authoritarian again in you. Papers to live ones life. Vaxx mandates.

All things gov has backed off because it wasn't feasible, nor does it stop the spread.
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And I thought they backed off because it was impossible to enforce without right wing idiots assaulting the wait staff.

You already carry papers. Look in your wallet. You have a little plastic card you bring out on request every time you board a plane or buy a beer. You just don't whine about it.
 
dad4 said:
And I thought they backed off because it was impossible to enforce without right wing idiots assaulting the wait staff.

You already carry papers. Look in your wallet. You have a little plastic card you bring out on request every time you board a plane or buy a beer. You just don't whine about it.
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There you go again.

You wanted authoritarian measures. Show your papers to prove you are vaxxed to do anything in society. It was a bad idea. Not enforceable because the majority of the population won't stand for it. That said variations were tried and people lost jobs because they didn't take a vax. You were all for those mandates.

You were all for shuttering biz and putting people out of work.
You were all for mandating vaxxes and people getting fired for not taking them.

The list goes on. And it isn't pretty.
 
The Plandemic is officially over according to FJB. Let's all go back to normal now. The last two and half years was just a bad nightmare. We all awake now!!!
 
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