Vaccine

[crush]

Get some popcorn out fellas, Grace T and the Doc and watch this short clip about, SWAMP WARS. I know you all are have a hard time with everything going on and you want to blame the Trumpster for all of it. I have to leave you all alone because I poked some soccer bears and they hate me. I forgive Captain Obvious and Mr. Know it all Doc. Stay thirsty my friends for the Truth and you will find it. WERE NOT GOING BACK TO THE WAY THINGS WERE. Look how t is compassionate for Sleepy Joe and even Klause. Peace to all of you and a goodbye

SWAMP WARS - EyeDropMedia

SWAMP WARS #EyeDropMedia #SWAMPWARS Eye Drop Returns finally… Many of us have been watching this movie for years and although we’ve had many twists and turns, we really need this movie to end. So with

rumble.com

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Yet still trump is outpolling de santis on a 1 to 1 in the most recent poll in michigan

and this is despite the revelation that he essentially got played on Covid because he was too stupid to see the trap birx Set for him. That alone should be disqualifying to his supporters

but it isn’t. He’s still filling rallies in middle America and the cult of personality is still going strong. Saw it myself on my recent trip to flyover land.

<sigh> I just can't imagine the level of hysteria that would take over about 1/3 the country if Trump got elected again. It's would be insufferable to hear and live through.

 

[Kicker 2.0]

Suppose the whole country had kept high risk businesses open in the summer of 2020. Where would AZ have gotten the travel nurses they needed to handle their surge?

What actually happened was you imported nurses from lockdown states. If there were no lockdown states, where would you have found the nurses you needed?

You’d feel a lot different if your income was impacted. Yet you can’t see or relate to the impact of the extended lockdowns because your life was fairly normal working from home.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

<sigh> I just can't imagine the level of hysteria that would take over about 1/3 the country if Trump got elected again. It's would be insufferable to hear and live through.

If only 1/3 would still be willing to vote for trump how could he be elected? . . . oh wait, the groundwork is still underway for that to happen. Democracy crumbles, eroding now from all sides in a symbiotic response.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

You’d feel a lot different if your income was impacted. Yet you can’t see or relate to the impact of the extended lockdowns because your life was fairly normal working from home.

We would all feel different if the national response was to err on the side of commerce and the worst case scenario came much closer to being realized. Anyone can Monday morning quarterback.

 

[Kicker 2.0]

We would all feel different if the national response was to err on the side of commerce and the worst case scenario came much closer to being realized. Anyone can Monday morning quarterback.

Except many of us saw it happening in real time. Keep trying.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

Except many of us saw it happening in real time. Keep trying.

Giving yourself credit for what is only confirmed in your mind?

 

[dad4]

Except many of us saw it happening in real time. Keep trying.

You do seem to want to count only one side of the ledger.

If you want to talk about the job losses and educational gaps, you should also discuss the deaths, hospitalizations, and medical bills from covid.

 

[Happened again]

You do seem to want to count only one side of the ledger.

If you want to talk about the job losses and educational gaps, you should also discuss the deaths, hospitalizations, and medical bills from covid.

because most people are afraid to have a real conversation about it. What was the approx age of most people who died? What was their long term outlook. How many years of life did we impact with education gap. Uncomfortable conversation for most.

Defintely two sides of the ledger and should be honestly discussed, with much emotion I'm sure. The gap in education is going to be felt for years to come, especially within specific communities...likely be a generational impact to some families.

 

[Kicker 2.0]

You do seem to want to count only one side of the ledger.

If you want to talk about the job losses and educational gaps, you should also discuss the deaths, hospitalizations, and medical bills from covid.

One you could protect yourself from and another was forced upon you……

 

[kickingandscreaming]

You do seem to want to count only one side of the ledger.

If you want to talk about the job losses and educational gaps, you should also discuss the deaths, hospitalizations, and medical bills from covid.

The non-Covid death side of the ledger has been given short shrift from the beginning. A holistic consideration/discussion of all possible ills vs. possible benefits of mandates would have been great to have from the beginning.

 

[watfly]

You’d feel a lot different if your income was impacted. Yet you can’t see or relate to the impact of the extended lockdowns because your life was fairly normal working from home.

Our business BOOMED during Covid which was not expected but makes sense now in hindsight. We never closed during Covid. We were all back in the office a week after the mid-March lockdowns. We took precautions but were open and exposed to the public and indoors. We had zero spread of Covid at our home office or our individual facilities for two years. It ultimately caught up with us in the home office in spring of this year.

We were lucky, many businesses (like hospitality industry) were devastated. It's easy to sit in an ivory tower and say lockdowns were no big deal when your pay checks kept coming. We locked down, and then threw money at the problem. According to one economist, the government gave out 3x the amount of money that was lost. I know people that bought new boats and homes with their PPP money. Like the health policies the money should have been targeted, but this is what happens when you let the government run a giveaway program. We're paying for that now with runaway inflation and supply chain interruptions.

Add it to education interruption and mental health issues to name a few others. The full ramifications of which will not be known for years. Was it worth it? Dad4 claims we saved 1 million lives with lockdowns and restrictions. I suspect that deaths might have been higher had we not had lockdowns, but I have a hard time believing that it was a 1 million. I think comparing states is a fools errand, there is really no common denominator that either increased or decreased deaths between states. The virus did as it pleased. Those that died were not demographically the go out and eat and drink crowd. That group tended to be home bodies.

The people most impacted by the lockdowns and restrictions were the least vulnerable to the virus. Our health policies just didn't add up. The virus was a "Darwin disease"; however, we treated it as if it was the plague. Bad call. History will not look back kindly on our policies.

 

[dad4]

One you could protect yourself from and another was forced upon you……

Really? You’re talking about lockdowns, and that was 2020. How were people supposed to protect themselves back then?

No vaccines. N95 masks were not yet available. And cloth masks are not effective as PPE.

 

[watfly]

Really? You’re talking about lockdowns, and that was 2020. How were people supposed to protect themselves back then?

No vaccines. N95 masks were not yet available. And cloth masks are not effective as PPE.

That's ironic since cases (and I think deaths) were more prevalent post vaccines and with much greater N95 availability. Although even now with N95 availability I rarely see anyone wearing one, I'd put it at less than 5% of mask wearers. You and I understand the benefits of N95 over cloth or surgical masks but the majority of the general public do not.

The protections pre-vaccine are still the best protections post vaccine (by a wide margin)...outdoors and distance.

 

[dad4]

That's ironic since cases (and I think deaths) were more prevalent post vaccines and with much greater N95 availability. Although even now with N95 availability I rarely see anyone wearing one, I'd put it at less than 5% of mask wearers. You and I understand the benefits of N95 over cloth or surgical masks but the majority of the general public do not.

The protections pre-vaccine are still the best protections post vaccine (by a wide margin)...outdoors and distance.

N95 are more common up here. Still under 20% of masks.

Some of that is selection bias. People who rely on N95 masks will also do more to avoid indoor/crowded spaces. So, when you’re at a restaurant and see bare faces, those who prefer N95 masks may be having a picnic in the park.

 

[watfly]

That's ironic since cases (and I think deaths) were more prevalent post vaccines and with much greater N95 availability.

It will depend on when you run the numbers, but I chose May1, 2021 as a cutoff date as that is when 50% of adults were vaccinated and the vaccine was widely available. Pre 5/1/21 there were 31,814,850 reported cases and post 5/1/21 there were 54,650,658 reported cases. For deaths it was 574,871 pre 5/1/21 and 438,010 post. Makes sense since the vaccine is effective against serious illness (and omicron tended to be more mild) and not very effective against infection (and omicron tended to be more contagious.)

 

[Desert Hound]

Really? You’re talking about lockdowns, and that was 2020. How were people supposed to protect themselves back then?

No vaccines. N95 masks were not yet available. And cloth masks are not effective as PPE.

We knew about 2 months in who was at risk.

We didn't need to shut down or close schools.

Most people have no real risk.

A substantial percentage of deaths were and still are nursing homes. Ie the places people get sent when they are typically a short time away from dying.

We knew you didn't need to close schools that fall.

We knew we were not going to stop a respiratory virus.

It was pretty clear early on this was going to be endemic....and as you hated to hear... something we are going to have to live with.

The policies you prefer screwed the poor, the kids, biz etc. We are experiencing the highest inflation in 40 plus yrs etc. All due to bad policy.

You keep trying to defend the indefensible.

 

[watfly]

N95 are more common up here. Still under 20% of masks.

Some of that is selection bias. People who rely on N95 masks will also do more to avoid indoor/crowded spaces. So, when you’re at a restaurant and see bare faces, those who prefer N95 masks may be having a picnic in the park.

A lot of factors for mask wearing. I attended a state association conference last week in Newport. The demo was primarily self-made, small to middle market business people. People that are used to assuming risk. Over 400 people for the conference which set a new record. I only saw 2 people wearing mask indoors. I suspect if that were an academic conference you would have seen far more people wearing masks and attendance wouldn't be at an all-time high.

 

[dad4]

It will depend on when you run the numbers, but I chose May1, 2021 as a cutoff date as that is when 50% of adults were vaccinated and the vaccine was widely available. Pre 5/1/21 there were 31,814,850 reported cases and post 5/1/21 there were 54,650,658 reported cases. For deaths it was 574,871 pre 5/1/21 and 438,010 post. Makes sense since the vaccine is effective against serious illness (and omicron tended to be more mild) and not very effective against infection (and omicron tended to be more contagious.)

May 1 is a nice cutoff. It also breaks it into two roughly equal time periods.

The other big factors are that almost all of us were more social during the second period than the first, and our hospitals had access to much better treatments.

 

[dad4]

We knew about 2 months in who was at risk.

We didn't need to shut down or close schools.

Most people have no real risk.

A substantial percentage of deaths were and still are nursing homes. Ie the places people get sent when they are typically a short time away from dying.

We knew you didn't need to close schools that fall.

We knew we were not going to stop a respiratory virus.

It was pretty clear early on this was going to be endemic....and as you hated to hear... something we are going to have to live with.

The policies you prefer screwed the poor, the kids, biz etc. We are experiencing the highest inflation in 40 plus yrs etc. All due to bad policy.

You keep trying to defend the indefensible.

I can’t take you seriously until you actually discuss the deaths, and what could and could not have been done to prevent them using the tools available at the time.

You’re still beating this drum of “hound was not personally at risk, therefore hound had no responsibility to be part of the solution.”

 

[Hüsker Dü]

The non-Covid death side of the ledger has been given short shrift from the beginning. A holistic consideration/discussion of all possible ills vs. possible benefits of mandates would have been great to have from the beginning.

That reeks of scrambling for an out to me. Yes that is part of the picture but not that meaningful, unless you need it to be.