Vaccine

[kickingandscreaming]

Where, in all of that, do you have any responsibility to get your facts straight?

The way you tell it, every time I fall some for line of bull shit, all I have to do is say “flawed messenger” and my own actions are no longer my fault.

Put your big boy pants on and use all that intellect and moral superiority to figure out whether a message and/or the messenger is flawed or not. Of course, you already do it but you are upset that more people don't come to your conclusion. That's really what your complaint is about. Maybe you need to reconsider your dismissal of our leaders' hypocrisy and their dismissal of segments of our population. It matters. Lack of trust in both political leadership and in the media that curates our news drives misinformation. That's where the seeds are planted. The Ministry of Truth is a partisan joke. It hacks at the leaves of the problem while strengthening the root.

 

[crush]

For those who need to eat crow this morning. Trust me you all, I have had plenty of crow over my years of life on earth and ketchup helps.

 

[crush]

Put your big boy pants on and use all that intellect and moral superiority to figure out whether a message and/or the messenger is flawed or not. Of course, you already do it but you are upset that more people don't come to your conclusion. That's really what your complaint is about. Maybe you need to reconsider your dismissal of our leaders' hypocrisy and their dismissal of segments of our population. It matters. Lack of trust in both political leadership and in the media that curates our news drives misinformation. That's where the seeds are planted. The Ministry of Truth is a partisan joke. It hacks at the leaves of the problem while strengthening the root.

He's getting schooled by unschooled fools like me.....lol

 

[crush]

 

[dad4]

Put your big boy pants on and use all that intellect and moral superiority to figure out whether a message and/or the messenger is flawed or not. Of course, you already do it but you are upset that more people don't come to your conclusion. That's really what your complaint is about. Maybe you need to reconsider your dismissal of our leaders' hypocrisy and their dismissal of segments of our population. It matters. Lack of trust in both political leadership and in the media that curates our news drives misinformation. That's where the seeds are planted. The Ministry of Truth is a partisan joke. It hacks at the leaves of the problem while strengthening the root.

Ok. Messenger has at least one flaw. Fauci took off his mask at a baseball game.

Now why does that mean I should refuse to do my part to help protect my neighbors?

 

[crush]

"I think it's very important we have emergencies here (U.S.). We need to have the Covid money ((now!!!)). Time is of the essences because we need the Ukraine money ((now!!)), we need the Covid money, so I hope we can do that. This is called legislation, we're legislating & we'll have to comes to terms with how we do that."

Her own streets are now filled with homeless people who need food and shelter. We need to help these folks asap first before we send $33,000,000,000 to Ukraine. The Streets of San Francisco has turned into place where you can take a dump on the street and the city will come by and pick it up and wash it down for you.

 

[crush]

Have a great day you guys, I'm going sailing and spear fishing. Listen to this song and all the songs I post. They all have meaning to life and dreams we should all be able to participate in. We can all co-create amazing life together on this planet.

 

[dad4]

"I think it's very important we have emergencies here (U.S.). We need to have the Covid money ((now!!!)). Time is of the essences because we need the Ukraine money ((now!!)), we need the Covid money, so I hope we can do that. This is called legislation, we're legislating & we'll have to comes to terms with how we do that."

Her own streets are now filled with homeless people who need food and shelter. We need to help these folks asap first before we send $33,000,000,000 to Ukraine. The Streets of San Francisco has turned into place where you can take a dump on the street and the city will come by and pick it up and wash it down for you.

Your argument applies even better in 1939. Why were we sending $31,000,000,000 to Britain when our own people were in the middle of the great depression?

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Now why does that mean I should refuse to do my part to help protect my neighbors?

I feel like this proves my point. This is your definition of what others should be doing. Some people don't believe what you believe and you want to force them to do as you believe they should. You and I are not in agreement about the effectiveness of mask mandates. So, tell me, exactly, what disinformation is causing me to think differently about mask mandates than you? Or, could it be that something else is at work here?

 

[Lion Eyes]

The White House is calling on Congress to approve $33 billion in additional funding, and is also seeking to seize the assets of Russian oligarchs and send the proceeds to Ukraine.


Biden’s new funding request includes $20 billion in military assistance for Ukraine, $8.5 billion in economic assistance and $3 billion in humanitarian aid, among other pots of money.

 

[dad4]

I feel like this proves my point. This is your definition of what others should be doing. Some people don't believe what you believe and you want to force them to do as you believe they should. You and I are not in agreement about the effectiveness of mask mandates. So, tell me, exactly, what disinformation is causing me to think differently about mask mandates than you? Or, could it be that something else is at work here?

This started with claims that people avoid vaccines because they aren’t very good. I argued that the vaccine seems to do fine, and that the problem is misinformation.

Now you want to change the topic to mask mandates. Not even masks. You insist on changing the topic to mandates.

Let’s stay on topic. Start with vaccines. Are you truly unaware of anyone posting anti-vaccine misinformation?

 

[kickingandscreaming]

This started with claims that people avoid vaccines because they aren’t very good. I argued that the vaccine seems to do fine, and that the problem is misinformation.

Now you want to change the topic to mask mandates. Not even masks. You insist on changing the topic to mandates.

Let’s stay on topic. Start with vaccines. Are you truly unaware of anyone posting anti-vaccine misinformation?

Stay on topic? That's funny (Am I allowed to say that?). Go back a few hundred pages and ask me that question again.

I'm (still) saying that the misinformation isn't the problem - vaccine or mask. Individual bias is driving decisions. Minds are made up. "Anything Trump says is BS", or "Anything the dems say is BS", etc. The sad thing is that each group has real events to point to that "validate" these feelings. You'd like to think that if people just understood what you understand, things would be different and they don't understand it because of misinformation. I don't believe that's the case. Everyone will decide who they want to listen to and it's most often those who share their bias.

 

[crush]

Stay on topic? That's funny (Am I allowed to say that?). Go back a few hundred pages and ask me that question again.

I'm (still) saying that the misinformation isn't the problem - vaccine or mask. Individual bias is driving decisions. Minds are made up. "Anything Trump says is BS", or "Anything the dems say is BS", etc. The sad thing is that each group has real events to point to that "validate" these feelings. You'd like to think that if people just understood what you understand, things would be different and they don't understand it because of misinformation. I don't believe that's the case. Everyone will decide who they want to listen to and it's most often those who share their bias.

What we all have today is experience of the last two years to look at and when you have experience, you can see the truth better or deny the truth. We see the truth ministers out in force now preaching their truth. Dad wanted to destroy fellow Americans lives if they didn't obey getting the jab + all the boosters. Mask as well indoors or else and insane rules for mom and pop food place or small business. I said no way to jab and I still feel that way. I will say if I saw the jab as a positive for others and all that, I would have got the jab. I decided to wait it out and go all healthy. My pal's wife sells pharma and will have another record year and she is for everyone taking the jabs, including 6 month old baby to get the jabs. I am against the jab for all kids and all healthy people and all those who are ready to take their health to the next level. If you want it, go get it, I just don; think this was done in righteousness. It's my body and I decide what goes into my blood. My only issue is firing people for saying no. I challenged that position the whole time. I tell people to eat healthy, organic fruits and veggies. No beyond meat that Bill is making in his labs. I hope it's ok for me to say don't eat meat and don;t drink booze. Booze will give you the belly gut and that's not good fighting off poison and chemicals. I also think where two fight, no one is right. I take no sides in this war. $33,000,000,000 off to help Joe and Hunters crew is not good. We have our peeps in LA and SF needing our help. These are peoples kids that are down and out even in Beverly Hills. They need food, shelter, clothing and something to do. We need to help our peeps first is what I'm trying to say. I see the truth clearly and selfishness, spying, cheating, lying, bribes and blackmail rule the planet. It's sad. Heading to Venice brother.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

Stay on topic? That's funny (Am I allowed to say that?). Go back a few hundred pages and ask me that question again.

I'm (still) saying that the misinformation isn't the problem - vaccine or mask. Individual bias is driving decisions. Minds are made up. "Anything Trump says is BS", or "Anything the dems say is BS", etc. The sad thing is that each group has real events to point to that "validate" these feelings. You'd like to think that if people just understood what you understand, things would be different and they don't understand it because of misinformation. I don't believe that's the case. Everyone will decide who they want to listen to and it's most often those who share their bias.

“Individual bias” based on? . . . round and round we go.

 

[met61]

This started with claims that people avoid vaccines because they aren’t very good. I argued that the vaccine seems to do fine, and that the problem is misinformation.

Now you want to change the topic to mask mandates. Not even masks. You insist on changing the topic to mandates.

Let’s stay on topic. Start with vaccines. Are you truly unaware of anyone posting anti-vaccine misinformation?

...the problem is one of moving the goal post and changing definitions...ok, you want to start with vaccines...which CDC definition of vaccine, pre-pandemic or post-pandemic?

...also, I see you are still using the hate thy neighbor mask trope...so, if you believe masks work, then the choice of others would be irrelevant, right? And if you must, wear a second one for anyone not wearing one in your presence...win-win.

...bottom line, it's a matter of freedom and choice...especially when all institutions of governance and information lost most if not all credibility.

 

[met61]

“Individual bias” based on? . . . round and round we go.

...Freedom.

 

[dad4]

Stay on topic? That's funny (Am I allowed to say that?). Go back a few hundred pages and ask me that question again.

I'm (still) saying that the misinformation isn't the problem - vaccine or mask. Individual bias is driving decisions. Minds are made up. "Anything Trump says is BS", or "Anything the dems say is BS", etc. The sad thing is that each group has real events to point to that "validate" these feelings. You'd like to think that if people just understood what you understand, things would be different and they don't understand it because of misinformation. I don't believe that's the case. Everyone will decide who they want to listen to and it's most often those who share their bias.

Minds are made up, to be sure.

I just don’t grant it the equivalence that you do. These are basic questions of fact, not politics. Masks and vaccines of any given type either do or do not reduce transmission in specific contexts. You can measure it. And adding quotes to the word “expert” does not change the answer to something more to your liking.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

I just don’t grant it the equivalence that you do.

In the big picture, that's irrelevant. You have the misguided idea that suppressing theories that you don't believe are based in fact will help remedy this. Again, if enough people believe, it doesn't matter and the tighter you squeeze, the more you will push people away from your facts.

And adding quotes to the word “expert” does not change the answer to something more to your liking.

Nor does removing the quotes change it to something more to your liking.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

This started with claims that people avoid vaccines because they aren’t very good. I argued that the vaccine seems to do fine, and that the problem is misinformation.

So, what should we have done earlier in the pandemic about all those who way overestimated their risk and the risk by age group? Where was the "misinformation" driving that?

 

[watfly]

The problem isn't misinformation, it's mistrust.

People regularly make emotional decisions instead of well-informed decisions. A primary cause is a dislike and/or distrust of the messenger. Whatever an unliked/untrusted messenger says, they will do the opposite. People will search for a reason, any reason, to do the opposite. We see many examples of this with Trump or Hillary Clinton. The misinformation will present itself if enough people don't want to believe a message. Again, it's not the misinformation, it's the mistrust that drives this behavior. Stupidity such as the Ministry of Truth will only make it worse. You can't regulate emotional thinking into rational action. The more centralized our governing becomes, the more we'll see "misinformation" issues among individuals that are not led by peers but by "elites" and who feel more and more removed from the decision-making processes.

Elites are going to have to get over that not everyone will bow down to their perceived intellectual and moral superiority. Being "right" doesn't matter if enough people think otherwise. Responding with authoritarian edicts will only increase the divide. Make your case and move on - and get over yourselves.

I'd argue that its really not the misinformation that most concerns the left and the covid fearful, its the "mis-conclusions". The pro-mandate group assumes people reached a decision not to get a vaccination based on mis-information, but that's often not the case. Given the same information people reach difference conclusions based on a number of factors including individual risk tolerances.

 

[Kicker 2.0]

I'd argue that its really not the misinformation that most concerns the left and the covid fearful, its the "mis-conclusions". The pro-mandate group assumes people reached a decision not to get a vaccination based on mis-information, but that's often not the case. Given the same information people reach difference conclusions based on a number of factors including individual risk tolerances.

Just ask Japan…..