Vaccine

I'll push a bit more. In the name of fairness in youth sports (pre or post puberty), should birth date matter - "age fluid"?

Yes, it should. So we have gender and age as arbiters of fairness in competition. Any others come to mind? Timing of puberty onset for instance? As I recall there is an entire chapter in the Outliers book discussing its effect on selectivity in athletics.
 
US soccer was pushing bio-banding as part of the DA program. As I recall, they brought in a guy from Southampton FC who had implemented it there. They even had some bio-band games, and late developers could play down a year.

The serious soccer programs develop talent and bio band when developing it. Coaches here tend to go for athletes and think they can make them soccer players - and yes, I've heard multiple A coaches, ECNL coaches etc. literally say that.

Clubs would never go for it obviously, and neither would parents.

Yeah, this is exactly where I'm going. Parents would not go for it. Pay to play clubs would not go for it. But developmental academies like the idea, for both concepts of development and less altruistic reasons (sounds like an easy way to split an A team from a B team to me). But what if you could have a way to, imperfectly but with a measurable degree of success, sort out some of those traits even earlier? Pre-sort them. Developmental programs with strong financial incentives would probably have a definite interest in that.
 
Yes, it should. So we have gender and age as arbiters of fairness in competition. Any others come to mind? Timing of puberty onset for instance? As I recall there is an entire chapter in the Outliers book discussing its effect on selectivity in athletics.

How did this discussion get here?
 
"Make sure you save a slice of that China Ca$h Pie for the Big Guy." Grand Jury witness was asked yesterday, "Who is the Big Guy?" Folks, we all got played with "Pay to play" when we were born until now and soon that game will be officially over. Don't panic!!! Watch the Water(s) and watch the arrests go down. Life as you know it is over. April showers is finally here. Let it rain the TRUTH!!!!

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I agree. Men and women's sports are A-OK by me. I'm saying putting forth genetics as the arbiter of fairness, as people are trying to do here because it seems binary and determinant, may well lead to some interesting situations in the not so distant future.

Only a small part of being a woman in our culture is the opportunity to compete in women's sports that were founded on the recognition that men and women are biologically distinct and that a general competition across the gender barrier is unfair to the point of being uninteresting. There are some notable exceptions, of course, such as gymnastics, where top-level women outshine their male counterparts.
 
Yeah, this is exactly where I'm going. Parents would not go for it. Pay to play clubs would not go for it. But developmental academies like the idea, for both concepts of development and less altruistic reasons (sounds like an easy way to split an A team from a B team to me). But what if you could have a way to, imperfectly but with a measurable degree of success, sort out some of those traits even earlier? Pre-sort them. Developmental programs with strong financial incentives would probably have a definite interest in that.

You could maintain the rigid controls by birthdate as the foundation for competitive eligibility and also suggest to those outliers who are riding along happily due to being a few months older than their teammates that they might develop their skills and strength more readily by playing in a higher age group. It used to be called "playing up".

Or they could just wait until they get into high school or college where the age bands suddenly become 4 years instead of 1. Is that Freshman really big enough/good enough to make the starting Varsity lineup?
 
US soccer was pushing bio-banding as part of the DA program. As I recall, they brought in a guy from Southampton FC who had implemented it there. They even had some bio-band games, and late developers could play down a year.

The serious soccer programs develop talent and bio band when developing it. Coaches here tend to go for athletes and think they can make them soccer players - and yes, I've heard multiple A coaches, ECNL coaches etc. literally say that.

Clubs would never go for it obviously, and neither would parents.
Regarding bio banding, parents won’t go for it unless you can explain it.

Birthdays are simple. We understand them. I can look at the birth certificate and tell you their age group. So can anyone. Easy.

Biobands are not simple. You might have one definition for how to measure someone’s developmental age, but other people will want a different definition. Very few of us can figure out our kids adjusted age. Even if we can figure it out, it seems unstable. Do they age up every time they have a growth spurt? Maybe, maybe not.

This is why biobands are useful only for someone like USSoccer or Southhampton. If you need to evaluate 200 kids and the payoff is signing the next Mbappe, biobands can help, and they are worth the trouble. If you need to evaluate 2,000,000 kids and the payoff is slightly fairer rec games, you’re not going to bother.

And, despite what parents want to believe, ECNL and GA have more in common with rec soccer than with Mbappe.
 
US soccer was pushing bio-banding as part of the DA program. As I recall, they brought in a guy from Southampton FC who had implemented it there. They even had some bio-band games, and late developers could play down a year.

The serious soccer programs develop talent and bio band when developing it. Coaches here tend to go for athletes and think they can make them soccer players - and yes, I've heard multiple A coaches, ECNL coaches etc. literally say that.It

Clubs would never go for it obviously, and neither would parents.
It's actually a part of MLS Next as well. They have a "late developer" program which allows you to play a couple players down, but it's rarely utilized by the clubs.
 
Here's the Truth fellas. We all have some feminine and masculine in our genes. All males and females have IT both ways. It don't matter if your born with a penis or a vagina. Most of us all have some sort of imbalance in these traits in our genes. For example, some males like me have a strong and even sometimes over balance of the feminine traits. Depending on how I feeling during the month, I can be quit the handful for my wife. I am very strong masculine but also have all this empathy that I can;t control. I feel things and cry sometimes, ok..... I'm not on meds trust me, it's the chemicals in my brain that I sometimes can;t control. Most men just don't understand. Basically, I get emotional at times and I think emotionally a lot, which some would say I act like a woman. I do and now I know why. I have a pal named David. He had two older bro's who played big time football in LA in the 80s. Pops played football in the 60s as well and they all expected little bro to be the best of the family. Well, David liked to be with his mom and cooking and playing dress up in dresses with his cousins. His brothers and dad made fun of him ((that's being nice)) his whole life and he got hurt deeply. Because of David's wounds from his father and bros, he wanted attention from men. It goes a lot deeper then just attention, but he knew he didnt want that life style, but wanted a masculine type personality to be with and that is not easy to find. Opposites do attract though and he met the love his life. They fell in love, got married and they have two kids. He married a tough military babe and she runs the house and David cleans the house and both our super stoked and in love and very happy :)
 
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Here's the Truth fellas. We all have some feminine and masculine in our genes. All males and females have IT both ways. It don't matter if your born with a penis or a vagina. Most of us all have some sort of imbalance in these traits in our genes. For example, some males like me have a strong and even sometimes over balance of the feminine traits. Depending on how I feeling during the month, I can be quit the handful for my wife. I am very strong masculine but also have all this empathy that I can;t control. I feel things and cry sometimes, ok..... I'm not on meds trust me, it's the chemicals in my brain that I sometimes can;t control. Most men just don't understand. Basically, I get emotional at times and I think emotionally a lot, which some would say I act like a woman. I do and now I know why. I have a pal named David. He had two older bro's who played big time football in LA in the 80s. Pops played football in the 60s as well and they all expected little bro to be the best of the family. Well, David liked to be with his mom and cooking and playing dress up in dresses with his cousins. His brothers and dad made fun of him ((that's being nice)) his whole life and he got hurt deeply. Because of David's wounds from his father and bros, he wanted attention from men. It goes a lot deeper then just attention, but he knew he didnt want that life style, but wanted a masculine type personality to be with and that is not easy to find. Opposites do attract though and he met the love his life. They fell in love, got married and they have two kids. He married a tough military babe and she runs the house and David cleans the house and both our super stoked and in love and very happy :)
You forgot the part he's going to gay clubs and having affairs with men secretly.
 
You forgot the part he's going to gay clubs and having affairs with men secretly.
No, no and no he never "hooked" up, was only tempted to hook up with the married men. In fact Emma, David told me that all the guys after him were all married, living a secret life. I also have a friend named Mike. He worked for a big corp company and had to travel every month to San Francisco to the big office and stay at hotel. Well, his wife found some crap on his AMEX card and she did interrogation and was about to file for divorce. Two purchases from Victoria Secret in SF had his wife all over his ass. Mike was super good looking guy but he loved his wife so much. She called me and asked me for advice. She was judging him without letting him speak. I told her to let him give his side of secrets at Victoria. She called me and thanked because she was 100% wrong. His wife called Victoria and found out these were super size panties and high heels for a very large lady. The wife was stumped on the large size for women. She felt less Jealous too because she was way smaller in the underwear sizes and already was like, "Mike likes big girls at work?" The truth was, it was for Mike and his dress up fantasies on the road. The wife called Mike's mom and she said it's true, that Mike likes to dress up and go out. He likes to be with women only but wants the attention from men because men give it out all day. They were able to get help and they stayed together until she passed a way a few years ago. Both of these stories are true.
 
Regarding bio banding, parents won’t go for it unless you can explain it.

Birthdays are simple. We understand them. I can look at the birth certificate and tell you their age group. So can anyone. Easy.

Biobands are not simple. You might have one definition for how to measure someone’s developmental age, but other people will want a different definition. Very few of us can figure out our kids adjusted age. Even if we can figure it out, it seems unstable. Do they age up every time they have a growth spurt? Maybe, maybe not.

This is why biobands are useful only for someone like USSoccer or Southhampton. If you need to evaluate 200 kids and the payoff is signing the next Mbappe, biobands can help, and they are worth the trouble. If you need to evaluate 2,000,000 kids and the payoff is slightly fairer rec games, you’re not going to bother.

And, despite what parents want to believe, ECNL and GA have more in common with rec soccer than with Mbappe.
...I am not sure you realize it, but you just nailed the whole ball game with one word..."definition." At the core of the game is power and/or money...whoever has the power subjectively defines or redefines the term(s).

...in order to define or redefine the term(s), the term(s) must be subjective...as I've stated, they only need a kernel...this thread is full of fringe nuance and outlier attempts at exceptions to the Truth...as it was nicely put in an earlier post, "policy is designed around the exception, where it benefits the exception over the ordinary."

...Truth is objective and clearly defined...therefore, subjectivity does not exist in truth.. it is created.

...the birth certificate provides two key objective Truths, sex and birth date...yet we are supposed to believe it is just a piece of paper...thus, subjective.

...obviously, I don't know you personally...but I do believe there is more in common than not...it is just arrived at from different places.
 
Here's the Truth fellas. We all have some feminine and masculine in our genes. All males and females have IT both ways. It don't matter if your born with a penis or a vagina. Most of us all have some sort of imbalance in these traits in our genes. For example, some males like me have a strong and even sometimes over balance of the feminine traits. Depending on how I feeling during the month, I can be quit the handful for my wife. I am very strong masculine but also have all this empathy that I can;t control. I feel things and cry sometimes, ok..... I'm not on meds trust me, it's the chemicals in my brain that I sometimes can;t control. Most men just don't understand. Basically, I get emotional at times and I think emotionally a lot, which some would say I act like a woman. I do and now I know why. I have a pal named David. He had two older bro's who played big time football in LA in the 80s. Pops played football in the 60s as well and they all expected little bro to be the best of the family. Well, David liked to be with his mom and cooking and playing dress up in dresses with his cousins. His brothers and dad made fun of him ((that's being nice)) his whole life and he got hurt deeply. Because of David's wounds from his father and bros, he wanted attention from men. It goes a lot deeper then just attention, but he knew he didnt want that life style, but wanted a masculine type personality to be with and that is not easy to find. Opposites do attract though and he met the love his life. They fell in love, got married and they have two kids. He married a tough military babe and she runs the house and David cleans the house and both our super stoked and in love and very happy :)
My feminine side is a lesbian, there's that.
 
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