Vaccine

[Brav520]

if the vaccination is really really good at protecting you from serious illness and death( which it is ) then what is the concern being around unvaccinated people? Shouldn't you have at least also have some concern being around vaccinated people since they can still spread it ?

you just don't want to get sick, with flu like symptoms ? Ok, understandable , is that the same mentality you have always had around flu season ?

 

[whatithink]

I have nothing against vaccines. I have an issue when they try vaxx passports. If someone choses not to get vaxxed, who cares?

Those paying for it care, e.g. United airlines said it cost them $50K per covid hospitalization, so they said vaccinate or pay an extra $200 a month in healthcare fees. If people choose not to vaccinate, then they can do that, in the knowledge that there may be consequences. That's fine by me, just stop complaining about those consequences if "you" don't like them.

 

[whatithink]

So are children. If that's the rationale, then there's no rationale for vaxxing the kids.

yeah, kids are not the problem.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Those paying for it care, e.g. United airlines said it cost them $50K per covid hospitalization, so they said vaccinate or pay an extra $200 a month in healthcare fees. If people choose not to vaccinate, then they can do that, in the knowledge that there may be consequences. That's fine by me, just stop complaining about those consequences if "you" don't like them.

That's why UA buys insurance for their employees. They nor you should be complaining when UA has to pay for what they agreed to.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

The vaccinated infections are less severe, for less time, resulting in less hospitalizations and less deaths.

Previously infected are less severe if they notice at all.

 

[whatithink]

No it's not. The Ds are being pulled by the post modernist on both the economic and cultural issue front (it's that they don't want to upset their donor base that the emphasis has been more cultural...post modernism suffers from a contradiction that it's adherents are usually the wealthiest and best educated)...the Rs by the traditionalists like Trump. Modernists like Sinema, Manchin, Romney or McCain were caught in the middle of it all and have had to make a choice over what's the lesser of two evils. Some modernists, like McConnell or HRC or Biden, tried to coop the wings, with varying but generally little degrees of success.

The federalist system is the only thing holding the country together right now. It's the only way we get through this really, especially if the Great Sorting becomes even more pronounced and noticeable. Biden was elected as a caretaker president who could hopefully try to pull the country together...the fact that he hasn't is the chief reason why his poll numbers are so down....it was especially the hope of the moderates in the center.

Money maketh politicians (in the US esp.), labels help make them look like they give a crap about the electorate while they continue to ensure that the money makers continue to make more money. New money is just as engaged, e.g. look at how much the tech companies that the Rs have railed against give to the Rs, TX is a case in point.

The current system will pull this country apart. The tyranny of the minority is more dangerous than the tyranny of the majority that the Senate, in particular, was designed to balance.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

The vaccine is working as well as could be hoped for. Remember that originally, we were hoping for something that was at least 70% effective. We got a 90+% that eventually needs a booster. Sounds like we got our wish.

It's reasonable to be upset that it isn't all over. There are two causes of that:

1- the existence of a national anti-vax campaign.
2- the emergence of a higher transmission variant.

Neither one of those can reasonably be blamed on the vaccine. No vaccine can really do the job if half of us refuse to take it.

 

[met61]

I believe you have it upside down. We are at each others' throats, so politicians exploit that to get elected. The core of our division is that we don't see enough of ourselves in others and others in ourselves. A single difference of opinion can be grounds for ending any type of engagement, permanently, or insulting, denigrating, and dehumanizing. With just a superficial understanding of human psychology, the outcomes we are seeing shouldn't be surprising.

Actually, I believe you are the one who has it upside down. Understandable, as you've probably been raised and lived in the bubble of a controlled environment amongst a specific control group. But, having spent most of my adult life in the military surrounded by individuals from every corner of the country, from every race, gender, nationality, economic status, religion, and political party. I can assure you, the psychological humanity and core division you speak of is minimally measurable, if it exists at all. You see, when you look up and down military ranks, you will see noticeable and vast differences...but, you will also find the two main principles they all have in common: 1) The US Flag on their shoulder; 2) The belief the soldier on their right and left will fight and die for them.

A great country needs common principles to bond and rally around. Politicians know the quickest road to power is division within the electorate, using identity politics and pitting individuals differences against each other.

I have never seen my biracial children at their classmates throats because of their white side or brown side...hell, no one in their peer groups even notices it or brings it up. Rather, I have clearly seen politicians and their acolytes in education with grotesque political motives jamming it down their throats.

All politicians use division and fear to generate power, but it is leftist who are leading the way in destroying our national unifying principles and identities.

It only takes a superficial amount of Wisdom and real personal experience to understand this.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Money maketh politicians (in the US esp.), labels help make them look like they give a crap about the electorate while they continue to ensure that the money makers continue to make more money. New money is just as engaged, e.g. look at how much the tech companies that the Rs have railed against give to the Rs, TX is a case in point.

The current system will pull this country apart. The tyranny of the minority is more dangerous than the tyranny of the majority that the Senate, in particular, was designed to balance.

What babble.

 

[Brav520]

Money maketh politicians (in the US esp.), labels help make them look like they give a crap about the electorate while they continue to ensure that the money makers continue to make more money. New money is just as engaged, e.g. look at how much the tech companies that the Rs have railed against give to the Rs, TX is a case in point.

The current system will pull this country apart. The tyranny of the minority is more dangerous than the tyranny of the majority that the Senate, in particular, was designed to balance.

its tyranny of the majority when Rs control the Senate, its tyranny of the minority when Ds control the Senate

the left controls nearly every power point in the federal government, and all of our cultural institutions .

Any roadblocks they are coming up against are problems with people in their own party . Maybe their policy proposals just aren't popular

 

[espola]

if you have gotten the Vax, and are still uncomfortable with living your life, that is fine. I'd question why that is, but you are free to make that choice.

I don't see how that gives you the right to force something on people, so that you are comfortable

Vax passports don't require you to get a vaccination. They require you to disclose your status in order to participate in certain public events.

Why would you have a problem with that? Aren't you proud of your position?

 

[SIP]

There are people can’t produce antibody even they are vaccinated, there are people are not eligible for vaccine. as human race, we need to protect them. if you are vaccinated, you body knows how to kill virus faster so it doesn’t mutate out of control also. You can learn all these common knowledge at high school science class.

 

[Grace T.]

That's why UA buys insurance for their employees. They nor you should be complaining when UA has to pay for what they agreed to.

Ah...insurance....now you are talking my language (salivating):

1. Most large companies self insure. Claims come right out of their pockets. The insurance card you have is mostly they insurance company admining the fund. Reason why is the large companies are large enough to form a pool of their own and this streamlines their admin costs.
2. Those that don't self insure enter into yearly pool contracts (it's why they have yearly renewals). Various risk factors go into what they are charged.
3. So either way the companies loose money if they have to pay out more claims. It comes yearly out of their pocket books.
4. So for that reason, recently many companies have begun offering discounts for health screenings and penalties for things like smoking.
5. The law in some way constrains their abilities to manage the pool: can't discriminate for example against the old or the pregnant.
6. COVID isn't really different than those risk costs....they could drive up the claims costs they pay out making it more difficult to do business....so it makes sense that companies would seek to mandate their employees get the vaccine...it makes it cheaper to insure since it lowers the risk of paying out bigger claims.
7. That's why the airline talk that Biden forced their hand is BS. Biden is just giving them cover for what they want to do.
8. Because otherwise the increased risk and increased cost to insure has to be balanced against your ability to hire, particularly in a constrained labor market. That's how markets operate.
9. Particularly if your employment is at will, there's not a whole lot you can complain about. They are free to fire you the next day, and you are free to quit. Every year they offer you a health plan, which in most jursidictions you are free to take or reject.
10. Without government interference, what most likely happens is they assess you a penalty (potentially quite steep) if you aren't vaccinated to make up for the risk (a risk premium) of having to cover your potential COVID costs.

That still leaves open the issue though if someone at work gets sick from an unvaxxed person at work, and can prove that, over the costs and liabilities there, which is a different issue than the health insurance.

 

[met61]

Ive asked this, seems the response is that we are protecting the well being of others

but if the vaccinated can catch and spread the virus , and the unvaccinated can catch and spread the virus , yes who are we protecting ?

Are we protecting the well-being of the unvaccinated, because that would be odd. They are being demonized by the left

... I'm thinking maybe the answer lies somewhere within "misery loves company" syndrome.

 

[N00B]

That's why UA buys insurance for their employees. They nor you should be complaining when UA has to pay for what they agreed to.

I believe they self-insure, not ‘buy’ insurance.

 

[met61]

The vaccine is working as well as could be hoped for. Remember that originally, we were hoping for something that was at least 70% effective. We got a 90+% that eventually needs a booster. Sounds like we got our wish.

It's reasonable to be upset that it isn't all over. There are two causes of that:

1- the existence of a national anti-vax campaign.
2- the emergence of a higher transmission variant.

Neither one of those can reasonably be blamed on the vaccine. No vaccine can really do the job if half of us refuse to take it.

... again, which definition of vaccine are you using, the old one or new one?

 

[Grace T.]

There are people can’t produce antibody even they are vaccinated, there are people are not eligible for vaccine. as human race, we need to protect them. if you are vaccinated, you body knows how to kill virus faster so it doesn’t mutate out of control also. You can learn all these common knowledge at high school science class.

Presumably high school science class taught you the same risk applies to people with flu, RSV or adenovirus. The "people not eligible for vaccine" are mostly children, who suffer a lower rate of death, hospitalization, and long COVID than a vaxxed person in their 40s. That leaves the immunocompromised, who are also at risk of other respiratory viruses. We can't make policy based on that exception. The vaccine won't help get us to zero COVID and spare them that risk if the breakthrough rate is high and increasing with time. This argument would only stand if the vaccine had a 90% or greater chance at stopping all transmissions.

 

[whatithink]

That's why UA buys insurance for their employees. They nor you should be complaining when UA has to pay for what they agreed to.

I don't care, but UA does. They can, that's their choice, just as its the choice of a UA employee to decline insurance or pay an extra $200 a month if they decline to vaccinate.

 

[met61]

The vaccinated infections are less severe, for less time, resulting in less hospitalizations and less deaths.

...which age group and pre-existing health condition are you basing this on?

 

[Brav520]

Vax passports don't require you to get a vaccination. They require you to disclose your status in order to participate in certain public events.

Why would you have a problem with that? Aren't you proud of your position?

yeah, IM not ok with segregating a portion of our society, so you are comfortable living your life

why are you not comfortable returning to normal way of life if you are vaccinated?