Vaccine

dad4 said:
What do you mean “something works or it doesn’t”?

Can you honestly not think of anything in the world which is only partly efffective? Mousetraps. Anti-lock brakes. Weather forecasts. Does this mean they are all useless?

You love your false dichotomy fallacy so much, you are insulting others for not copying it.
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Your reading comprehension is always so much weaker than your math.

I said you have to define what”work” means. It either meets the standard or it doesn’t. But it’s up to you to lay out that standard (which the complaint recently is that it shifted majorly with the arrival of the delta). We went from vaccines 95% effective at stopping transmission and it would be over by June to now we don’t really know (which is why you are back on masks on the vaccinated)

And having been caught in a thunderstorm which unexpectedly wiped out goalkeeper practice and team practices Monday, I don’t think most people would say weather forecasts “work” but again it depends on the definition.
 
Grace T. said:
errr…logical fallacy. It’s not all or nothing. It’s either something works or it doesn’t. Of course you have to meet the parameters of what “works” mean but by definition it either hits those parameters or it doesn’t.

the issue on your end is you’ve tried every justification but none of them quiet work…so you guys keep throwing up something else:
-to protect the refusers (but they made their choice and assumed the risk)
-to protect the unvaxxed children (but their risk of death, hospitalization or long covid is less than a vaxxed 50 year old)
-to reach herd immunity (but there are breakthroughs and the vaccine immunity might decline with time…if so herd immunity might not be possible without natural immunity or it might not be possible at all)
-to protect the hospitals (but that doesn’t explain why you’d keep restrictions and mandates in places with low spread)
-to protect the elderly and immunocompromised (but you got their boosters and with breakthroughs it’s never gonna be 100%)

if the vaccine doesn’t stop transmission you guys can’t articulate any off ramp other than a vague hope that we might hit herd Immunity,stay there and not have any more variants.
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"It’s not all or nothing. It’s either something works or it doesn’t."

That's an interesting string of words.
 
dad4 said:
You are ignoring the people who cannot be vaccinated.

Think severely compromised immune systems. People who for some reason just are not good at antibody creation.

(not everyone is of average health)
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Who can't be vaccinated? Even people with DiGeorge syndrome and Wiskott-Aldrich syndrome are getting vaccines and likely first in line for boosters. You act as if people who are severely immune comprimised are out walking around elementary schools with not a care in the world. Stick to you stats and stay away from medicine.

I'm sure if you hopped on the CDC website, it would explain all of this. At a minimum, the CDC website does a good job of providing the average person easy to read information.

Vaccinating a healthy population with low to zero risk is foolish and a waste of time. But don't you worry, you'll soon get your wish. Tee up the fear campaign and parents will line up to vaccinate their healthy children under 12. It's unfortunate.
 
dad4 said:
You are ignoring the people who cannot be vaccinated.

Think severely compromised immune systems. People who for some reason just are not good at antibody creation.

(not everyone is of average health)
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You don't make policy based on the exception to the rule.

You are always what about those that cannot be vaxxed? They make up a tiny percentage of the population.

One does not mandate kids be vaxxed, vaxx passports, etc etc like you want to deal with the exception to the rule (those that cannot get vaxxed).

That seems to escape you.

It also seems to escape you that the following is true.

-This thing is or will be endemic. One cannot go on for years and years worrying about the exception to the rule per say.
- If someone is vaxxed who cares about the non vaxxed. That is what your vaxx is for.
- If you look at the chart above with our without a vaxx the majority of people have no real risk
- And finally they keep coming out with better and better treatments for people falling ill.
 
The other thing that escapes dad is that this is over.

When that over is still has yet to be decided.

The public will not stand for more closures, are tired of masks, etc.

Slowly but surely we are seeing other countries throw in the towel and say it is endemic and time to move on.

We are seeing ballparks and stadiums full of people and no associated spikes. People are moving on. It will take our "leaders" a bit longer to.

dad has lost the war in respect to what he wants to be done. He and others just don't realize it yet.

Like the adage goes, things that can’t continue, won’t.
 
Grace T. said:
apnews.com

Scandinavians curb Moderna shots for some younger patients

Scandinavian authorities have suspended or discouraged the use of Moderna’s COVID-19 vaccine in young people because of an increased risk of heart inflammation, a very rare side effect associated with the shot.
apnews.com apnews.com
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So the pandemic is having the effect of delaying cancer screening until it is too late AND creating heart problems. Shocking!! The two top causes of death getting help from COVID and the vaccines as COVID deaths hitch a ride. The masses are too scared and too dumb to look at the Science.
 
what-happened said:
Who can't be vaccinated? Even people with DiGeorge syndrome and Wiskott-Aldrich syndrome are getting vaccines and likely first in line for boosters. You act as if people who are severely immune comprimised are out walking around elementary schools with not a care in the world. Stick to you stats and stay away from medicine.

I'm sure if you hopped on the CDC website, it would explain all of this. At a minimum, the CDC website does a good job of providing the average person easy to read information.

Vaccinating a healthy population with low to zero risk is foolish and a waste of time. But don't you worry, you'll soon get your wish. Tee up the fear campaign and parents will line up to vaccinate their healthy children under 12. It's unfortunate.
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Dad et al enjoy worse case scenarios. Doom and gloom perpetuates their incessant elevation of "moral posturing over truth".
 
Grace T. said:
Your reading comprehension is always so much weaker than your math.

I said you have to define what”work” means. It either meets the standard or it doesn’t. But it’s up to you to lay out that standard (which the complaint recently is that it shifted majorly with the arrival of the delta). We went from vaccines 95% effective at stopping transmission and it would be over by June to now we don’t really know (which is why you are back on masks on the vaccinated)

And having been caught in a thunderstorm which unexpectedly wiped out goalkeeper practice and team practices Monday, I don’t think most people would say weather forecasts “work” but again it depends on the definition.
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You seem to be assuming that, once you define “work”, your definition is automatically meaningful.

You can define “work” to mean 95.0 or better. Does that mean a 95.1 is great and a 94.5 is worthless, just because you chose 95.0 as your definition? Of course not.

It gets worse. Suppose I choose 90.0, and Tony chooses 98. Now both work, neither one works, and exactly one of them works. All three statements are equally true, despite being completely inconsistent.

If you want to define a new concept, then invent a new word for it. The old words already have definitions, and I find them useful.
 
dad4 said:
Even then. If you have enough covid circulating to infect most 0-15 year olds, you also infect most immune compromised people.

Remember the goal was to get herd immunity without infecting the vulnerable.
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Wonder if the Corona virus knew about those stated goals for the immuno-comp'd. I'd say that after 55 million years, one of Corona's goals was to make it on to the most wanted list of the Lysol wipes container and spray can.
 
Grace T. said:
Rashomon.

If we disagree on what is meant by "work" we can't have a reliable discussion on what we mean. We are essentially talking passed each other. Definitions are everything.
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Interesting that despite the vaccine we are on track for a worse year than last.

abcnews.go.com

US reports highest weekly COVID-19 vaccinations since July 4

The United States has been facing a COVID-19 surge as the more contagious delta variant continues to spread.
abcnews.go.com abcnews.go.com
 
Desert Hound said:
You don't make policy based on the exception to the rule.

You are always what about those that cannot be vaxxed? They make up a tiny percentage of the population.

One does not mandate kids be vaxxed, vaxx passports, etc etc like you want to deal with the exception to the rule (those that cannot get vaxxed).

That seems to escape you.

It also seems to escape you that the following is true.

-This thing is or will be endemic. One cannot go on for years and years worrying about the exception to the rule per say.
- If someone is vaxxed who cares about the non vaxxed. That is what your vaxx is for.
- If you look at the chart above with our without a vaxx the majority of people have no real risk
- And finally they keep coming out with better and better treatments for people falling ill.
Click to expand...
One of the most troubling aspects to me has been the burden of proof requirements during this pandemic. The burden of proof should be on the ones that want to change the policy or have mandates. That hasn't happened. The burden of proof has been switched to the status quo having to prove that a policy won't work or is misguided. I believe this is a dangerous precedent.
 
watfly said:
One of the most troubling aspects to me has been the burden of proof requirements during this pandemic. The burden of proof should be on the ones that want to change the policy or have mandates. That hasn't happened. The burden of proof has been switched to the status quo having to prove that a policy won't work or is misguided. I believe this is a dangerous precedent.
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The above statement is spot on.

We have turned things on their head so to speak.
 
dad4 said:
What do you mean “something works or it doesn’t”?

Can you honestly not think of anything in the world which is only partly efffective? Mousetraps. Anti-lock brakes. Weather forecasts. Does this mean they are all useless?

You love your false dichotomy fallacy so much, you are insulting others for not copying it.
Click to expand...
Masks
 
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