Moo, you a coo coo
Vaccine
- Thread starter Multi Sport
- Start date
Bruddah IZ
DA
“Trivialities”
Bruddah IZ
DA
Funny how you couldn’t be bothered with deaths in the beginning of the Chinese virus.
whatithink
GOLD
Tangential but having one of the top healthcare systems guarantees nothing, esp. when its based on who can afford access.
US heath outcomes suck relative to the healthcare system that we have and, as importantly, the amount of money that is screwed out of us to pay for it.
Desert Hound
DA
YESTERDAY’S HEROES GET THE CAN:
If it’s really still a crisis, why are we letting health workers go?
If it’s really still a crisis, why are we letting health workers go?
Desert Hound
DA
Tangential for sure.
Point being compare our system to anything south of the border. Compare it to E Europe, the Middle East, Africa, etc.
whatithink
GOLD
Sure, compared to poor, underdeveloped countries we're awesome!
My bar was higher.
met61
GOLD
...or maybe poor health and obesity.
Exhibit A for cherry picking and cherry blossoms. Island nations with official, or effective travel bans from other countries.
We don’t really know but all of East Asia seems to have better outcome on prime than Europe and the Americas. India was doing pretty well too despite lax masking prior to the delta. And the East Asian response was very different (test and trace in South Korea v poor testing In Japan). There are a variety of theories: masking helped against the prime but not delta, prior exposure to viruses, weight and diet
not really true either South Korea or Japan managed to contain prime. The had a lower burn. And have you seen Singapore against the delt?
In any case the fact that you have to reach to an Asia (no East Asian) country to show your point sort of proves mine…the us (which overcoujts) isn’t exactly the worst outcomes particularly once you account for the nursing home policy is certain blue states.
ps it’s funny your covid prescription for the us is we should have been more Asian.
Desert Hound
DA
I have done biz in Europe for years. Decades actually. I would not go as far as saying they have better health care. It isn't cheap either when you consider that in most of those countries by the time you get to a 50k euro salary you are moving in on a much higher tax rate vs what we have here. Then add in the VAT and go from there. They pay a lot.
It shows. When I review housing in the various countries for our clients I am always surprised (actually not anymore) of how basic much of the accommodations are and they are middle class.
Anyway most of the people I know in Europe buy supplemental insurance (what it is called varies by country) so they can avoid the regular health care system. As one of my German partners said...I pay extra so when I go to the doctor I go to a separate area where I dont have to wait in the long queue that everyone with the standard insurance does.
Desert Hound
DA
But you missed my main point.
The US with less than 5% of the world's population has according to "official" numbers 14.5% of al covid deaths?
That doesn't pass the smell test.
Or letting the unvaccinated cross our borders……
Bruddah IZ
DA
Asians aren’t as fat per capita and thus immuno compromised.
Bruddah IZ
DA
Healthcare and health insurance are not the same thing. But the two terms are used interchangeably. Health insurance is the only insurance that we carry that is attached to our employment. We retain all other insurances regardless of our place of employment. Life, Auto, umbrella, etc. Our health insurance also ignores risk pools. If you are heavy, overweight and can’t afford health insurance Congress says that you shouldn’t have to pay more for the lifestyle that you live. We also combine health care and health insurance together which is what drives the cost up. If we decoupled the two and charged them separately people could afford to pay for one or the other or both because healthcare would not be determined by health insurance which is always for catastrophic events, as is the case with all other insurances. Can you imagine having auto insurance and auto maintenance as a combined product? Choose a Lower deductible and you might be able to file a claim for a battery change or a tire change. This is what is happening with the current health care and health insurance scam.
Bruddah IZ
DA
The US and European healthcare system is mostly pro-business/industry and anti-market. Crony capitalism if you prefer. Shocking right??
Grace, you don't need any special explanation for why mask+trace+distance worked for prime but not for Delta.
That is exactly what the models predict.
For any 70-85% effective NPI program: it works great for R<3, but is not quite enough for R>6.
You only need another explanation if you can't get your brain around the tipping point at R=1 and 1-1/R.
That is exactly what the models predict.
For any 70-85% effective NPI program: it works great for R<3, but is not quite enough for R>6.
You only need another explanation if you can't get your brain around the tipping point at R=1 and 1-1/R.
Again, it depends on what the definition of "work" is. The only country to deploy a true trace program was South Korea. Look at what Korea did starting in November. There's also a clear line where the Delta makes it worse.
South Korea COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer
South Korea Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.
www.worldometers.info
Japan did not have a trace program. It's tracing was a disaster so that's more B.S. that you are spouting without knowing the facts on the ground. If you are claiming Japan and South Korea did similarly, then you have to discount for trace which was not part of the Japanese equation due to a poor testing program.
That leaves you with masks + distance (or disavowing Japan now despite citing them earlier). Europe had a high mask compliance and harder lockdowns. Why didn't it work there? (oh yeah, you said it's because they relaxed). Well, Los Angeles had indoor and outdoor with over 98% compliance and closed indoor dining....why didn't it work there? Oh yeah, you said it was because of density....but Seoul, Tokyo and Singapore are also equally dense.
So the answer isn't "tracing". The answer also can't just be 100% "masks". And the answer can't just be well Los Angeles is different because of density. It has to be something else.
Errr....know this is just one case and just an anecdote, but if true it's still very bad news for the herd immunity crowd if even natural immunity + vaccine immunity supercharge won't do it.
The costs of masks isn't zero. Walking the dog through our local park this morning and I had to pull him away from 4 face masks. The great irony is the reusable washable cloth masks that are environmentally friend in any case are the worst ones.