Vaccine
- Thread starter Multi Sport
- Start date
“can spread the virus” is not the same as “equally likely to spread the virus”.
I’d say the growth in Delta cases is absolutely the fault of the unvaccinated people. They’re more likely to catch it, more likely to spread it, and less likely to take precautions to lower that risk.
Yes, a vaccinated person who stays outside and uses a mask *can* spread the virus. But- on average- they aren’t very good at it.
Desert Hound
DA
The difference is a lot of people cannot get their head around the following:
- the vast vast majority of people have no real risk.
- the virus is endemic. It will be here year after year.
- we cannot allow safety theater to continue on for something that only affects a small minority of people. That group by the way is vaxxed at a high rate.
- stop worry about people who chose not to get vaxxed. Their choice.
Roadrunner
SILVER
The Delta variant is better at replicating itself (making copies of itself) than the original variant, and so people infected with it carry a lot more (1000x) virus in their upper respiratory passages. These higher titers are part of why this variant is easier to spread. Comparing infections in vaccinated versus unvaccinated people, those who are vaccinated are more likely to have lower titers (less virus) and a shorter duration of upper respiratory infection. There are additional factors that go into how likely someone is going to spread the virus, but the number of infectious virus particles is a key part of it. The immune cells in the vaccinated people will also be much more readily able to prevent the virus from gaining a foothold in their lungs and causing severe disease.
The dif
One estimate is that a vaccinated person will, on average, infect about a third as many people. If that is correct, 3 vaccinated people pose about the same risk as one unvaccinated person. If your country is half vaccinated and half not vaccinated, then the unvaccinated half are resonsible for about 3/4 of the problem, and the vaccinated half are responsible for about 1/4 of the problem.
Question 2- I don’t have good data for the prevalence of second infections among previous covid patients. Nor do I have good data for the prevalence of Delta infections among people who think they already had covid. (those two groups are substantially different)
The difference is in the number of people you are likely to infect, if you do catch covid.
One estimate is that a vaccinated person will, on average, infect about a third as many people. If that is correct, 3 vaccinated people pose about the same risk as one unvaccinated person. If your country is half vaccinated and half not vaccinated, then the unvaccinated half are resonsible for about 3/4 of the problem, and the vaccinated half are responsible for about 1/4 of the problem.
Question 2- I don’t have good data for the prevalence of second infections among previous covid patients. Nor do I have good data for the prevalence of Delta infections among people who think they already had covid. (those two groups are substantially different)
Isn’t it interesting that they have all the data available except for that?
So don’t blame the “Unvaxx’d” as a whole as you can’t quantify how many of those “Unvaxx’d” have Natures Vaccine!
Well tell that to my pal with blood clot on the back of leg Roadrunner. He told me it feels like a gnarly Charlie horse. He got fever and got his ass to ER. Blood thinner saved his life. Thank God for that drug, right?
Dude is drinking blood thinner now and has to for a long time. Plus, two jabs already with more boosters to come. WTF is he putting in his body? Perfectly healthy before and not no more. No, no, no death is not knocking on door but he's full of fear bro. Welcome to the forum & Camp Delta bro. NSA/Space Force is watching you big time and me as well. I got serious threat from assholes three years ago who were cheating big time. Welcome to the forum BTW. Husker, Dad and Poorespola need back up big time.
Roadrunner
SILVER
I have not seen data on how many of the unvaccinated people currently in the hospital had either confirmed or suspected cases of covid in the past. I think an underlying question here is whether natural immunity is as robust as immunity from a vaccine. It could be as robust in some cases, and not in others. I would add to that to ask whether natural immunity following an infection with one variant will be as protective against another variant as immunity from vaccine x, y, or z. In that regard I did read a peer reviewed paper that suggested that the RNA based vaccines were more likely to lead to protection from variants than natural immunity because the spike protein produced by the RNA will adopt a greater variety of conformations (shapes), allowing the immune system to create a larger variety of antibodies against the spike protein. Since the spike protein is the main target for the immune system, having all the other proteins produced in a natural infection won't necessarily be any advantage.
Roadrunner
SILVER
Thanks for the welcome Crush. Modern medicine can definitely be amazing in all the problems it can help address. I'm glad your friend was able to get help.
Thank you. Just curious Roadrunner. Where you from? DD or DS? Are you a doctor or in health? I love your writing skills btw. I heard t speak and he thinks people should get the Jab but also free not too and without getting fired. You can have the booz & the cruises...lol!! I'm 100% down with that. What say you? Dad thinks I'm SOL and should move to FL so I can be a salesman without a mask? People like my smile and feel my warmth and kindness and with a mask on, well it sucks and it makes the sales call horrible. No one is even interested in growing their biz. Most small businesses owners have lost everything or are barely on life support. Turn the table game is fast approaching.
Roadrunner
SILVER
I have a DS who has been crazy about soccer since he discovered it. Definitely very competitive and has worked hard to try to be the best he can be. I've been learning from his journey. The soccer world is interesting.
My training is as a virologist. I think it's amazing that we actually have vaccines that are effective against a coronavirus. There's a long history, not always great, for vaccine development. I understand the concerns and hesitation. Vaccines are also interesting in how they are not just about personal health. Yes, my DS and I are vaccinated. We also probably had covid just as schools were shutting down last year. (There weren't tests available at the time given our symptoms.)
Welcome bro. My DS was super fast but hated soccer at early age. Then Coach Dave from Pony League ruin any dreams I had of him playing sports. Q. Do you think my dd should be allowed to play HSS private or public without getting the jab? She's cool with wearing mask to the game and away from the game. She's cool with being tested. Thanks for bring soming sanity to this place.
Look WHOse talking again. Dr. F.
Fauci says 'hopefully' making young kids wear masks won't have 'lasting negative impact'
Delta variant is filling up pediatric hospitals ((pics please and not from Italy)) and seems more threatening, Fauci said
During an interview with conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt, Dr. Fauci said it’s important to keep an "open mind" about masking after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommended that unvaccinated children ages 2 and older wear masks and that students wear masks in all K-12 schools, regardless of vaccination status, in light of the rapid spread of the COVID-19 delta variant.
It's not comfortable, obviously, for children to wear masks, particularly the younger children," he said. "But you know, what we’re starting to see, Hugh, and I think it's going to unfold even more as the weeks go by, that this virus not only is so extraordinarily transmissible, but we're starting to see pediatric hospitals get more and more younger people and kids not only numerically, but what seems to be more severe disease.
Plus, Dr. F has a
Report shows Fauci linked to NIAID's deadly experiments performed on dogs
What on God's green earth is everybody that jabbed have in their today. Roadrunner, you have any theories on what is in the experimental drug? I know we got bat, spike, some sort of fetus stem or cell and now maybe some dog? Woof woof!!
Fauci says 'hopefully' making young kids wear masks won't have 'lasting negative impact'
Delta variant is filling up pediatric hospitals ((pics please and not from Italy)) and seems more threatening, Fauci said
During an interview with conservative radio host Hugh Hewitt, Dr. Fauci said it’s important to keep an "open mind" about masking after the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommended that unvaccinated children ages 2 and older wear masks and that students wear masks in all K-12 schools, regardless of vaccination status, in light of the rapid spread of the COVID-19 delta variant.
It's not comfortable, obviously, for children to wear masks, particularly the younger children," he said. "But you know, what we’re starting to see, Hugh, and I think it's going to unfold even more as the weeks go by, that this virus not only is so extraordinarily transmissible, but we're starting to see pediatric hospitals get more and more younger people and kids not only numerically, but what seems to be more severe disease.
Plus, Dr. F has a
Report shows Fauci linked to NIAID's deadly experiments performed on dogs
What on God's green earth is everybody that jabbed have in their today. Roadrunner, you have any theories on what is in the experimental drug? I know we got bat, spike, some sort of fetus stem or cell and now maybe some dog? Woof woof!!
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
I was confused why they were asking Lamar Jackson about his vaccine status. He got COVID twice. How much more protection will he get from a vaccine?
Roadrunner
SILVER
The RNA based vaccines don't have anything to do with stem cells or dogs.
You may be familiar that cells contain chromosomes made of DNA that serve as encyclopedias/ instructions for carrying out the functions of the cell. To read a particular sentence or paragraph in the book, special enzymes (types of proteins) create RNA versions of the information. Messenger RNAs are RNAs whose information is then translated by other complexes in the cell to make a particular protein. The Pfizer and moderns vaccines are at their heart a stabilized messenger RNA that contains the information to make the SARS-CoV2 spike protein. But, the vaccine RNA has to be able to get into cells, so the companies surrounded the stabilized mRNA with lipid based spheres (nanoparticles). This helps the vaccine to deliver its cargo through the outer layers of our cells, which are composed of phospholipids. The companies wouldn't have to use any cells to make the RNAs or their delivery shells. Their technology is a lot easier to scale than, for example, flu vaccines that use chicken eggs.
If the vaccine effectiveness is really 60% to prevent transmission or thereabouts (a big if) there is no difference between unvaccinated and vaccinated spread
Can you share with us the ingredients that the "cargo" is made of from Pfizer this new delta variant? Thanks