US Soccer Team

MacDre said:
Again, a taser is not a deadly weapon. Every time that I have sued a police department for killing a suspect with a taser, I have lost because a taser is NOT a deadly weapon.

police departments across the country have challenged claims against them by asserting that tasers aren’t deadly weapons. Therefore, those same departments cannot assert that a taser is a deadly weapon now merely because it’s in the hand of a fleeing suspect. It was not appropriate to use deadly force when there was 2 cops and 1 fleeing suspect with a taser. The cops also had his ID and his car...where was he going?
Sir, doesn’t have to be Floyd. Cops can’t kill folks because they resist. At no time was any of those 2 cops life in danger.
Click to expand...
Are all lawyers as stupid as you?
I bet I know how you got into law school.
 
EOTL said:
Racist is the right word to throw at the people it is being thrown at here. There is no such thing as being prejudiced against racists. That’s just weak sauce bothsides-ism.
Click to expand...

Facts aren't racist. If "racism" is all you have, might as well grab your toys and go home. You already lost.
 
Woobie06 said:
There are tremendous men and women protecting and serving our communities on a daily basis. I will take a fully funded police department of men and women sworn to protect the community they serve over a group of “Community Representatives.”

What’s interesting is that on this board, on Facebook, everywhere the ones calling people racist the most often have the most prejudiced posts of all. It’s ironic in a not funny way. Racist is a heavy word to throw at somebody.

Can we agree that not ALL the men and women in Law Enforcement are racist, bad, unfit, etc., and that there IS reform needed to ensure that people don’t die needlessly, even if they do have criminal records? It’s getting absurd.
Click to expand...

Police are here for a REASON in a Civilized Society....
Democrats/Criminals do not want a Civilized Society.....
Civilized Society does not want DEMOCRATS/CRIMINALS....
 
EOTL said:
No, people are not kneeling for the purpose of eliciting outrage or offending people. Rather, the only offense and outrage are from your end because you are outraged and offended by it. Kaepernick, Rapinoe and friends have said many times they did it to draw attention to a incredibly important issue, not because they want to piss people off. In order to reach your conclusion, you need to expressly disregard what they are telling you, including the Marine who made the recommendation to Kaepernick in the first place.

The truth is you do not believe that opposing racism and police brutality is important enough issue to justify the slight imposition on your sensibilities that maybe a handful of people are “imposing” on you for at most 2 1/2 minutes, although you don’t even need to watch it and you weren’t even there for it to bother you. Seriously, a person kneeling for a flag constitutes such a minimal imposition on your or anyone’s life that it’s a joke when people start freaking out like it’s the end of the world. Really, kneeling during the anthem constitutes no burden at all to you other than the burden you make it.

And yes, shaming Drew Brees is absolutely worth it. The more people like him who are “shamed” into keeping their opposition to civil rights to themselves, the fewer will do so in the future. That said, claiming Brees apologized because he was shamed significantly misrepresents what happened. He went public with his poorly-considered opinion and, in response, a number of his teammates offered their opinion, and did so very civilly. Drew issued his apology not because he was hammered on Twitter by the horde, but because he was educated by more thoughtful and civil teammates. So, when you claim that Brees was “shamed” into issuing an apology, it does a huge disservice to those who did anything but shame him into changing his feeling. It minimizes the civility of those who expressed an opinion that you just don’t want to hear. It allows to continue the false narrative that those “on the other side” aren’t civil, although 99.9% of them are. I know it’s a great excuse to ignore what they’re doing (and how) because someone else threw a brick through a window or burned down a Wendy’s, but it’s still just an excuse to avoid confronting what millions of people are saying in exactly the manner you claim they should.

It also does Brees himself a huge disservice by ignoring the admirable fact that he actually did change his mind. Claiming he was “shamed” is the only way for bigots to rationalize their disappointment that someone they believed to be on “their side” actually learned something that isn’t what they want to hear. It’s the same reasoning that people use to claim Biden was buddies with “Klan leader” Robert Byrd. They aren’t offended Byrd was a horrible bigot, they are using it to claim Biden is a hypocrite although at the time of the photo Bird had made huge strides to evolve and turn away from his previously hateful positions. And, although Byrd remained deeply flawed until the day he died, it ignores the very admirable quality in Biden that he continued to work with flawed people who were at least learning, and that he was also evolving as he became more educated. They ignore all of that because they are more interested in misrepresenting everything about the photograph so that they can make themselves feel better by rationalizing that maybe liberals are just as hateful as them, so it’s therefore ok to photoshop genitals onto Michelle Obama and make watermelon cracks while simultaneously claiming they aren’t racists.

If you were sincere in claiming you want America to be a better place, stop telling people to STFU or ignoring them when they civilly highlight issues that hold equal rights back, whether its Kaepernick and Rapinoe kneeling or New Orleans Saints expressing their opinions.

Maybe someday you will learn that what you want - - no kneeling or “bothering” you about the issue of racism that isn’t important to you - is never going to happen. Rather, your constant whining about it and refusal to accept the legitimacy of their cause only leads to more bricks. And, because I and others are done being polite, when they photoshop genitals onto Michelle Obama for no reason other than to be a**hole racists, they get bricks. And but for the fact that Brees apologized, they’d also get photoshopped photos of his vagina, just like all the the whiny p**sies who can’t handle kneeling.
Click to expand...

Where to start. They kneeling only draws attention to the point of the protest if people regard the kneeling as a noteworthy thing. Inarguable or a stupid way to protest. I don't think Kaepernick is stupid, so I am going with intentional. To my knowledge, none of them said their choice of protest wasn't intended to be offensive to half of America. They said they didn't mean it to be disrespectful to the military. Not quite the same thing, though I concede nuance is apparently hard for you. I think opposing racism and police brutality is more important than most things, and certainly sports and their presentation on TV, but feel free to keep being so confident in your knowledge of what I think. I didn't say Drew Brees was shamed into an apology. His apology appeared to be genuine to me. I said people shamed him - or at least they certainly attempted to shame him. I found several of the comments made by other people, including many players (like Malcolm Jenkins and Ed Reed) to be something less than civil. Sure, nobody threw what you apparently regard as a well-deserved brick through his window - that is well-deserved at least right up until he agreed with you, but I would assert the public "Fuck Drew Brees" chants in front of the Superdome are not my notion of civil. News flash to nobody, your notion of civil and that of at least me and I suspect most other people is pretty different. I find it ironic that you see Biden's ability to work with Byrd as admirable yet you yourself are incapable of that kind of effort. I didn't tell them to STFU and I didn't ignore what they had to say, I said I thought their tactic was disrespectful and not the best choice to actually bring about the outcome they put forward. You think Megan Rapinoe's kneeling made the difference for Gorsuch today? I don't. And, as for Gorsuch, what did you surely say when he was confirmed about what he would have decided about a case like this? Perhaps just a bit off about how sure you are about what everyone else thinks? But, sure, go ahead, stop being polite. Unless you think you are going to dominate all who disagree with you or even agree with some but not all of what you say - and good look with that - maybe try being a little more like Biden and a little less like Byrd.
 
dad4 said:
I am well aware of the role coastal warlords played in the Atlantic slave trade. Or the Indian Ocean slave trade, for that matter.

What I dont understand is your modern definition of uncle Tom. From here, it sounds as though a black man who arrests a black man is automatically an uncle Tom. No wonder they move out to the suburbs.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? When did I imply that a black man arresting a black man was an uncle tom? I’m a black man that has a top secret security clearance and has worked for law enforcement. My brother currently works for LAPD, and my Aunt was one of the first black female police chiefs in the US. There are good cops. However, I’m also saying many traded in their white sheets for a badge, uniform, and gun. I’m also saying racial profiling and over policing of black neighborhoods is real. I’m also saying that due to systemic racism everywhere from school textbooks, to white images of beauty, access to wealth, education, and power many black people hate themselves. For example, have you seen before and after pictures of Michael Jackson or Sammy Sosa? Both of those guys hated being black so much that they tried to turn themselves white surgically! Most people don’t have the type of bread laying around like Mike and Sammy. So, joining a police force is a low budget way to assimilate and gain acceptance into a culture that hates black people. It’s a win-win situation because the racist cop gets to say he knows a black guy, it’s also a win for the uncle tom because it makes him feel good when he is accepted by the racist and they tell him he’s different from the lazy ghetto blacks that just want a handout.
 
Woobie06 said:
C’mon...you know exactly what they are...They are the alternative to real law enforcement some people are calling for in their communities. You know, because of all the “bad” police officers out there.
Click to expand...
You don’t know what you are talking about! Community Police are real police. The candidates are chosen from the community. It’s not good for police not to have ties to the community that they police. Cops do better work when they have a vested interests in the communities they police.
 
Dof3 said:
Where to start. They kneeling only draws attention to the point of the protest if people regard the kneeling as a noteworthy thing. Inarguable or a stupid way to protest. I don't think Kaepernick is stupid, so I am going with intentional. To my knowledge, none of them said their choice of protest wasn't intended to be offensive to half of America. They said they didn't mean it to be disrespectful to the military. Not quite the same thing, though I concede nuance is apparently hard for you. I think opposing racism and police brutality is more important than most things, and certainly sports and their presentation on TV, but feel free to keep being so confident in your knowledge of what I think. I didn't say Drew Brees was shamed into an apology. His apology appeared to be genuine to me. I said people shamed him - or at least they certainly attempted to shame him. I found several of the comments made by other people, including many players (like Malcolm Jenkins and Ed Reed) to be something less than civil. Sure, nobody threw what you apparently regard as a well-deserved brick through his window - that is well-deserved at least right up until he agreed with you, but I would assert the public "Fuck Drew Brees" chants in front of the Superdome are not my notion of civil. News flash to nobody, your notion of civil and that of at least me and I suspect most other people is pretty different. I find it ironic that you see Biden's ability to work with Byrd as admirable yet you yourself are incapable of that kind of effort. I didn't tell them to STFU and I didn't ignore what they had to say, I said I thought their tactic was disrespectful and not the best choice to actually bring about the outcome they put forward. You think Megan Rapinoe's kneeling made the difference for Gorsuch today? I don't. And, as for Gorsuch, what did you surely say when he was confirmed about what he would have decided about a case like this? Perhaps just a bit off about how sure you are about what everyone else thinks? But, sure, go ahead, stop being polite. Unless you think you are going to dominate all who disagree with you or even agree with some but not all of what you say - and good look with that - maybe try being a little more like Biden and a little less like Byrd.
Click to expand...
Verbose. You seem like a smart dude though. Could you clearly and CONCISELY provide some better solutions than kneeling to bring attention to police brutality against black men?
 
MacDre said:
What are you talking about? When did I imply that a black man arresting a black man was an uncle tom? I’m a black man that has a top secret security clearance and has worked for law enforcement. My brother currently works for LAPD, and my Aunt was one of the first black female police chiefs in the US. There are good cops. However, I’m also saying many traded in their white sheets for a badge, uniform, and gun. I’m also saying racial profiling and over policing of black neighborhoods is real. I’m also saying that due to systemic racism everywhere from school textbooks, to white images of beauty, access to wealth, education, and power many black people hate themselves. For example, have you seen before and after pictures of Michael Jackson or Sammy Sosa? Both of those guys hated being black so much that they tried to turn themselves white surgically! Most people don’t have the type of bread laying around like Mike and Sammy. So, joining a police force is a low budget way to assimilate and gain acceptance into a culture that hates black people. It’s a win-win situation because the racist cop gets to say he knows a black guy, it’s also a win for the uncle tom because it makes him feel good when he is accepted by the racist and they tell him he’s different from the lazy ghetto blacks that just want a handout.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with your points on profiling or policing or imagery or power. What is the explanation for those in the black community who denigrate a black person for pursuing higher education or a job in law or medicine? That is not everyone, of course, but I understand that it happens more than I would have expected. Very good friend of mine is a black lawyer whose brother is a psychologist. Both grew up lower middle class and being accused in their neighborhood and within their family of turning their backs on their culture and wanting to be white. Neither did or wanted any such thing. The psychologist has devoted much of his professional life to counseling black men in prison. As an educated and experienced black man, what are your thoughts of how often that is the experience of kids in poor or lower middle class black communities who pursue education as a path to different life? And why?
 
MacDre said:
Verbose. You seem like a smart dude though. Could you clearly and CONCISELY provide some better solutions than kneeling to bring attention to police brutality against black men?
Click to expand...

You know, the things that he doesn’t see. Black people should do those things.
 
MacDre said:
You don’t know what you are talking about! Community Police are real police. The candidates are chosen from the community. It’s not good for police not to have ties to the community that they police. Cops do better work when they have a vested interests in the communities they police.
Click to expand...
MacDre said:
You don’t know what you are talking about! Community Police are real police. The candidates are chosen from the community. It’s not good for police not to have ties to the community that they police. Cops do better work when they have a vested interests in the communities they police.
Click to expand...

I know exactly what I am talking about. You’re measured and logical, but sometimes emotional in your responses. I do agree with you that the closer to the community Law Enforcement is the better for everyone. There needs to be respect and trust both ways for it to work. Just like any good relationship to be successful. The community needs to respect the Police and the Police need to respect the community. There needs to be accountability on both ends.

Regarding Officers living in the communities they serve, sounds great, not practical in all cases...The problem is there are many places where officers serve that are not safe, and would not be a good place for them to live, raise kids, etc. Families want to live specific places, spouse’s career, etc.

Like you, our family has a lot of active and retired law enforcement - Seattle, LA, and PHX. I’m sure you have gone on plenty of ride-alongs. Police are Police, I don’t know what a Community Police person is....Calling for defunding and/or abolishment of the Police is extremely short-sided,mid-guided, emotional, and dangerous. I would be happy to share data in LA regarding interactions, shootings, deaths, etc. Very few want to consume data to make their decision, instead it is “I think”, “I feel”, or what the news cycle is presenting on your channel of choice. The “Racist Cop” narrative is a fallacy. Bad people, are bad people regardless of race. Spend some time looking at the data...or is the data corrupt too?
 
MacDre said:
Verbose. You seem like a smart dude though. Could you clearly and CONCISELY provide some better solutions than kneeling to bring attention to police brutality against black men?
Click to expand...

I do tend to go on. Apologies. I honestly am not sure. I wish I knew. Sustained, large protests in many cities at the same time, over and over again. That has been pretty powerful over the last two weeks. With real leadership by people with credibility (which Sharpton does not have). LeBron does not have (but, hey, he makes a lot of money in China, so people shouldn't talk about what's going on there - sounds like an NFL owner, doesn't it?) Martin Luther King has a statue in Washington. Sharpton won't. I sure would have liked to see Barack and Michelle Obama on TV quite a bit more over the last two weeks, not blaming people for what has been or what is, not telling me that my life and success was somehow easy or was gifted to me by my whiteness (it wasn't), but inspiring people to be better, to see opportunity for themselves and others, to imagine the creativity and passion and opportunity in black Americans that can be unleashed for the betterment of all of us. More of the Merck CEO. More of leading black lawyers and doctors and engineers and astronauts and artists. Not calling white people racist, but instead sharing the real stories of black people who are not just killed by police but denied mortgages or healthcare. Stories of black schools and parents who are working three jobs to give their kids a better chance. But I expect you will rightly say that those things don't capture enough attention fast enough. People heard Kaepernick. But they weren't moved by him and thus nothing happened.

When I heard Obama speak as a senator at the Dem convention about us not being red states or blue states but the United States, I had such hopes that he would be a transformative figure who could bring people together across a host of issues and especially race. I believe that speech is what launched him and was as responsible as anything for his election. And I was deeply disappointed that he governed like a prime minister instead of a president. He is young. People love him. I would still love for him to dedicate the remainder of his public life to working to solve race issues in America. And I would love to someday take my grandkids to see his statue in Washington DC and tell them about how his election makes him a notable figure but his work on race relations in America made him a giant in American history right up there with the likes of Washington and Jefferson and MLK.
 
Dof3 said:
I don't disagree with your points on profiling or policing or imagery or power. What is the explanation for those in the black community who denigrate a black person for pursuing higher education or a job in law or medicine? That is not everyone, of course, but I understand that it happens more than I would have expected. Very good friend of mine is a black lawyer whose brother is a psychologist. Both grew up lower middle class and being accused in their neighborhood and within their family of turning their backs on their culture and wanting to be white. Neither did or wanted any such thing. The psychologist has devoted much of his professional life to counseling black men in prison. As an educated and experienced black man, what are your thoughts of how often that is the experience of kids in poor or lower middle class black communities who pursue education as a path to different life? And why?
Click to expand...
There are those in the black community that hate themselves and want to assimilate into white culture. I think they are picked on and constantly ridiculed. I have never in my life heard of someone equating education with acting white. I think your friend is the exception not the rule.
 
MacDre said:
What are you talking about? When did I imply that a black man arresting a black man was an uncle tom? I’m a black man that has a top secret security clearance and has worked for law enforcement. My brother currently works for LAPD, and my Aunt was one of the first black female police chiefs in the US. There are good cops. However, I’m also saying many traded in their white sheets for a badge, uniform, and gun. I’m also saying racial profiling and over policing of black neighborhoods is real. I’m also saying that due to systemic racism everywhere from school textbooks, to white images of beauty, access to wealth, education, and power many black people hate themselves. For example, have you seen before and after pictures of Michael Jackson or Sammy Sosa? Both of those guys hated being black so much that they tried to turn themselves white surgically! Most people don’t have the type of bread laying around like Mike and Sammy. So, joining a police force is a low budget way to assimilate and gain acceptance into a culture that hates black people. It’s a win-win situation because the racist cop gets to say he knows a black guy, it’s also a win for the uncle tom because it makes him feel good when he is accepted by the racist and they tell him he’s different from the lazy ghetto blacks that just want a handout.
Click to expand...
So then define what you mean by the term. Or stop using it. (It is pointlessly insulting anyway.)

Language is communication and you are failing to communicate.
 
Woobie06 said:
I know exactly what I am talking about. You’re measured and logical, but sometimes emotional in your responses. I do agree with you that the closer to the community Law Enforcement is the better for everyone. There needs to be respect and trust both ways for it to work. Just like any good relationship to be successful. The community needs to respect the Police and the Police need to respect the community. There needs to be accountability on both ends.

Regarding Officers living in the communities they serve, sounds great, not practical in all cases...The problem is there are many places where officers serve that are not safe, and would not be a good place for them to live, raise kids, etc. Families want to live specific places, spouse’s career, etc.

Like you, our family has a lot of active and retired law enforcement - Seattle, LA, and PHX. I’m sure you have gone on plenty of ride-alongs. Police are Police, I don’t know what a Community Police person is....Calling for defunding and/or abolishment of the Police is extremely short-sided,mid-guided, emotional, and dangerous. I would be happy to share data in LA regarding interactions, shootings, deaths, etc. Very few want to consume data to make their decision, instead it is “I think”, “I feel”, or what the news cycle is presenting on your channel of choice. The “Racist Cop” narrative is a fallacy. Bad people, are bad people regardless of race. Spend some time looking at the data...or is the data corrupt too?
Click to expand...
I like data. Lawrence Cohen was my mentor. My research also helped overturn three strikes legislation. Stop misrepresenting the data.
en.m.wikipedia.org

Routine activity theory - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
MacDre said:
There are those in the black community that hate themselves and want to assimilate into white culture. I think they are picked on and constantly ridiculed. I have never in my life heard of someone equating education with acting white. I think your friend is the exception not the rule.
Click to expand...

What is "white culture"?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top