Surf cup controversy

GoldenGate said:
It is beginning to sound like you cared very much about the trophy. Will you confirm or deny that you whined to Surf Cup officials because your little princess didn't make the playoffs of a kiddie soccer tournament?
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From my source, he complained after the tie saying that "everyone is talking about it" and it was "confirmed". Surf Cup reached out to Crossfire, and actually confirmed that the girl was in fact a girl.
 
jimlewis said:
Bring your damn birth certificate to the games, problem solved.
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This actually doesn't solve the problem because California has loosened the change of birth certificate rules and even allows people to choose an "X" if they want to....unless you are saying that soccer leagues should defer to whatever standards California has set (which BTW still doesn't resolve what you do with the X's)
 
Luis Andres said:
I want to make clear that the segregation in sports is not about people’s rights to compete in sports but about what constitutes the fairness in sports, however we all have the right to participate in sports but we don’t all have the right to compete in any division that we want. Do Transgender women have the right to compete in the women’s division? I would say no but I think it’s ok for a transgender girl that has not reached puberty yet to participate with biological girls as I don’t see any competitive advantage prior to puberty. But how do we move going forward for women’s soccer at the higher levels? This is something that I’ve been thinking about lately and have thought of a possible solution. Here is my argument to my solution and thought process. Can you argue why not?

The solution to these gender inequalities and differences in sports is not to exclude trans women from participating in sports but to redefine how we refer to the segregation of sports. The problem lies in the way sports are currently labeled when segregated. Labeling the segregation as Men and Women sports is where the underlying issue lies and opens up a can of worms for activists to debate the meaning of a woman and a man to construct an argument of unfairness to non binary gender ideologies when it comes to sports competiton being a human right. Gender in todays times can be very subjective and personal and the reference to It must be used with caution because it can easily offend someone if used incorrectly.

After much research and new understanding of gender and biological sex I have a better understanding of the issues and confusion and how some people may feel that things may be unfair for non binary genders. So how do we go about fixing this issue? The solution must not be too complicated and must be rooted in objective truth and reality and the only thing that is external and objective is biological sex and the physiology of male and female bodies being different in terms of competitive advantage in sports serves as a differentiation ground for an argument of fairness. Biological males known as cisgender males cannot compete with cisgender females or any other identifiable non binary genders. In other words it must be fair for biological females.

1) Remove women sports and rename them to female sports and segregate by biological sex only.
2) Remove Men sports and rename them to male sports and segregate by biological sex only.
3) Create a new open category for all non binary identifying genders and intersex situations to biological sex. This category must exclude cisgender males as well. They may only compete in the biological male category.

The issue stems from the new stance on gender identity being confused and intermingled with biological sex. One is a social or possibly mental construct while the other is biological. The way we classify mammals and their roles in sexual reproduction for male and female roles comes with a natural differentiation in physiology which can lead to an argument of unfair competition between the 2 sexes.

This is the fairest thing to do because it allows everyone to participate and it complies with the human right to participate in sports. And it keeps things fair between the 2 largest participant groups. Cisgender men and women. The other option would be to remove all segregation in sports and make them inclusive. However this would be unfair to a large portion of the population that is referred to as cisgender women. Which would defeat the purpose of fairness and human rights. If you think this is unfair then I would argue that there may be new issues of trying to compete with an innate competitive advantage which would be illegal in all aspects of sports, unfair and very selfish and narcissistic on your part. You would be admitting that the participation of sports is not your issue after all. And therefore the argument would be that trans women should compete solely in male sports if they want to participate because it aligns with physiology, the way they were born and developed after puberty. If you deny this then we can logically deduce from this that the human right to participate in sports is not the core issue at hand.

There is no denying science that statistics show that a biological male who’s gone through puberty before transitioning can have a physiological and athletic advantage over biological women most of the time. You can argue about hormone suppressors but that is not enough to suppress the natural and innate advantages that nature has given males over females in respect to physiology. I sympathize with trans women in how they may be potentially excluded from sports in the near future and I sympathize for their rights and needs to participate in sports in general but if we are to move forward with the right solution then we must be fair to everyone that wishes to participate in general. If you disagree, please challenge my argumentsView attachment 14684
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The problem on the youth soccer level is that in most regions, even in SoCal (let alone a red state), there isn't a sufficient mass of players to create their own league.

The problem on the college level is that it will require the diversion of significant funds away from title IX women's sports if you create a new category and I can hear the complaints from a lot of you all when your DD's scholarship goes because it has to be diverted to the new category for equity reasons.

Finally, if it's important enough to go after the trans people, presumably you would also go against the cheaters that are taking testosterone (which is a performance enhancing drug) and support random drug testing, at least at the highest/older levels.
 
Grace T. said:
The problem on the youth soccer level is that in most regions, even in SoCal (let alone a red state), there isn't a sufficient mass of players to create their own league.

The problem on the college level is that it will require the diversion of significant funds away from title IX women's sports if you create a new category and I can hear the complaints from a lot of you all when your DD's scholarship goes because it has to be diverted to the new category for equity reasons.

Finally, if it's important enough to go after the trans people, presumably you would also go against the cheaters that are taking testosterone (which is a performance enhancing drug) and support random drug testing, at least at the highest/older levels.
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NCAA already has a drug testing program.


I would hope that any drug testing program would take into account the needs of individual competitors undergoing medical treatment supervised by a doctor.
 
espola said:
NCAA already has a drug testing program.


I would hope that any drug testing program would take into account the needs of individual competitors undergoing medical treatment supervised by a doctor.
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Yup...it also catches certain naturally born women that have an unusually high testosterone count for various biological reasons.

To my knowledge, however (and please correct me if I'm wrong), no program outside the MLS academies (and then I'm not sure what they do) has adopted drug testing for kiddie soccer.
 
Grace T. said:
Yup...it also catches certain naturally born women that have an unusually high testosterone count for various biological reasons.

To my knowledge, however (and please correct me if I'm wrong), no program outside the MLS academies (and then I'm not sure what they do) has adopted drug testing for kiddie soccer.
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You keep bringing up drug testing. Do you have any reason to believe that significant numbers of youth girls are taking steroids?
 
dad4 said:
You keep bringing up drug testing. Do you have any reason to believe that significant numbers of youth girls are taking steroids?
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I don't have a reason to believe that there are significant numbers of mtfs playing in the youth girl divisions either. To be clear, I'm not sure when you tally potential genetic abnormalties as well as hormone imbalances and irregularities that the number of those individuals doesn't outweigh the number of mtf playing in the youth girl divisions. We are talking about overall small numbers of mtfs, genetically/hormonally different children and cheaters overall. And BTW...why limit to the girls divisions....aren't you concerned if the boys are cheating?

However, if we are going to argue "fairness", it's not really fair to pick on the trans kids if you are going to ignore the cheaters.
 
espola said:
Should we expect a chain of apologies now?
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You know that will not happen. In their eyes, no amount of invading the privacy of children, and no amount of humiliating as many kids as it takes, is too much if the alternative is that their own fragile little princess isn't put at a "competitive disadvantage" in a fucking soccer game being played by 10 year olds.

There will be zero self-reflection. They'll still demand that anyone who "looks like a boy" should be subject to dna and drug testing, required to submit to physical exams, forced to show their birth certificate, and sidelined until they can "prove" they aren't trans. All because they think a plastic trophy to for their 10 year old is just that important. What a joke.
 
J0g0_B0nit0 said:
Their Goalie I saw and it did look walk and play like a boy but not sure but People From different unrelated teams were talking about it
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How do you feel about accusing a 10 year old biological girl of being trans, all because your child didn't make the playoffs in a soccer tournament for 10 year olds?
 
JabroniBeater805 said:
I'm not going to generalize here and will discuss specifics even though identifying this player and team in this scenario makes me uncomfortable. This is a place for discussion and this won't be the last time we question "is this a boy or a girl?" playing against our daughters.

This conversation has happened on sidelines at multiple tournaments throughout the country regarding this same team. I've witnessed it first-hand not just with my kid's team but with others playing against the team in question. I have also heard that this concern has been brought to tournament officials and their response was that the player's eligibility isn't up to the tournament but is on the club's sanctioning body.
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Still feeling good about questioning whether a 10 year old girl is biological or trans?
 
jimlewis said:
Bring your damn birth certificate to the games, problem solved.
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Still think it's a great idea to humiliate 10 year old girls who, in your opinion, might be trans, all because you're worried about a potential "competitive disadvantage" to your little princess who is barely good enough to make the team?
 
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