That's not true. Dear keeper son cares a lot (and not because of me...I'm the one that keeps encouraging him to just go with all the rules changes and assured him the ref would explain before the match...when the ref didn't I asked him in a friendly manner if he might give the kids a run down of the new rules). He's the one that's under pressure and get singled out (his counterpart on the first game was really shaken up by the entire thing....have seen him play before....the sudden last minute switch really threw him off). They'll play with any set of rules you give them, but they look for consistency and clarity....having things constantly change week to week doesn't enhance the fun. Hopefully CalSouth will get the refs all on the same page soon and clarify the printed rules.
ref accountablity .
- Thread starter charlie murphy
- Start date
That's not true. Dear keeper son cares a lot (and not because of me...I'm the one that keeps encouraging him to just go with all the rules changes and assured him the ref would explain before the match...when the ref didn't I asked him in a friendly manner if he might give the kids a run down of the new rules). He's the one that's under pressure and get singled out (his counterpart on the first game was really shaken up by the entire thing....have seen him play before....the sudden last minute switch really threw him off). They'll play with any set of rules you give them, but they look for consistency and clarity....having things constantly change week to week doesn't enhance the fun. Hopefully CalSouth will get the refs all on the same page soon and clarify the printed rules.
baldref
GOLD
im sure there are exceptions to my generalizations and keepers are always an exception. Just kidding, my standard goalies are different joke.
My point was more that, at that young age, the less parents and coaches make an issue of such minor details the less the kids will notice if at all.
Yes. In a perfect world all referees would be as wonderful as I am and skittle rainbows would fall from the sky. There are dufus referees, some of which are more dufus then acceptable. But, nothing in application of the rules is life or death at U8
Or 9
Or 13
Or........
coachrefparent
GOLD
My suggestion for a solution to ignorant parents is for all parents to shut their mouths and not outwardly question calls made by referees, which is required by every gaming circuit's code of conduct that I have seen.
Coaches can follow protocol and report to their gaming circuit director if they have a legitimate concern about referree competency. Parents have ZERO role in this process. Sorry.
charlie murphy
SILVER
charlie murphy
SILVER
What are you talking about? gaming circuit ? gaming circuit code of conduct? Are we in NV? Are you in NV? what is a gaming circuit? who is the gaming circuit director?
coachrefparent
GOLD
Who cares about the terminology? I am not using any terms of art. No I'm not in Nevada.
"Gaming circuit" is synonymous with "League" (i.e. SCDSL, CSL, ECNL, DA, Presidio/SDDA, etc.). It is the correct technical term. See, http://www.calsouth.com/downloads/2008CircuitApplication.pdf
coachrefparent
GOLD
No need to apologize, that's exactly what I've been saying.
Surfref
PREMIER
My two cents....the quality of new referee's have decreased since they changed from a 2-day new referee course to an online course. The new referee's just don't seem as knowledgeable and ready for their first games. The other problem is that Grade 7 refs used to have to complete a yearly assessment/evaluation and a physical test (timed distance run and sprints) to advance from Grade 8 to 7 and then yearly to stay at 7. Now all a referee basically has to do to move from Grade 8 to 7 is do a certain number of centers and take some online modules. So, there really is not much difference between a Grade 8 and Grade 7 referee. There are only around 140 Grade 6/State referee's in all of SoCal and some of those only work DA and adult games. Theoretically the State refs should be on the top games, but that does not always happen.
Maybe they're not as technically proficient, but I've been impressed with the few older teen refs we have had this season. They were focused, active and enthusiastic...I'm a sucker for individuals that are enthusiastic about their jobs.
Just a clarification - Are you saying you're not the coach and yet you were present when the kids were checked in, heard that the ref didn't provide the instruction on the rules you desired and then asked, as a regular parent, if the ref could give the kids a run down of the new rules? Or are you just saying you would like them to have done so after hearing your son's description of the check-in with the refs? That sounds like an unusual situation if the former. I've never seen the ref speak with the kids near the sidelines with the parents crowded around and, if it happened like that, I can't imagine any coach would want the parents to speak to the ref during that pre-game check-in period no matter how friendly the tone.
When it comes to 7v7, my practice last week was to explain to the coach and players how the BOL (ball leaves the penalty area, etc.) was being called and answer any questions. I then walked over to the sideline and invited questions from the parents on the rules effecting 7v7 and prefaced it with "I know you have had referees call these 7v7 games a variety of ways over the summer, so feel free to ask me for any clarifications." I find engaging the parents and helping them understand the Laws and Rules makes for a happy sideline and a much more educated spectator that doesn't say stupid stuff. It also makes them much less likely to be jerks to me.
Sounds like a good approach. Was that was done in this case Grace? I literally haven't seen that ever done in almost ten years of doing club soccer (although I have seen refs address parents when a sideline was out of control), including in cases of rule changes like the new rules on headers.
DYS is the keeper and hadn't been given the instruction (coach wasn't sure when we arrived what ref would be doing...he'd had the meeting like everyone else, but as I said, the instructions have been confusing). Given that the tournaments were all called a variety of ways and we've gotten different stories from different refs, I've made it my practice (after one incident over the summer where he had gotten conflicting info from the coach, tournament organizers, and the ref and DYS was reduced to tears by teammates/sidelines/refs/coaches yelling conflicting instructions) to make sure he gets the official deal from the ref on the build out in before go. Given we were 3 minutes away from start, and we still didn't know what he was suppose to do, I asked politely "would you mind ref giving them a quick run down of how you'll call the build out rule". As MWN pointed out, even though I think he called it wrong (and I didn't call him on it til after the game), the ref was kind enough to do it and even if the game was called wrong, because everyone knew in advance what was happening, it avoided an otherwise bad situation. MWN has some real excellent advice there. They shouldn't have to do that, but as I've said, from what I've seen so far, the build out rule roll out is a cluster f.
Thanks. It would indeed be good practice, although, to be fair, the way games are scheduled on most fields doesn't give referees much time to discuss anything with parents before the game starts even if they are inclined to do so. This is especially true if they are refereeing multiple games on the same field, have to get the next game started quickly to avoid running up against the end of the field permit, and that break between games is the only time they have to fill out the match report, get it signed by the coaches/TAs and return their cards, and get something to drink and a bite to eat on a hot day. This is especially true in youngers games when they don't have ARs to help with check-ins.
Hey, that's one of my old referee jokes - if you are going to call the game by your own rules, tell the players about it beforehand.
@Grace T.
Presidio has posted clear guidance: http://www.presidiosoccer.com/documents/7v7-standards-of-play.pdf
SCSDL has expressly referred to the Cal South PDIs and points to this document:
http://media.calsouth.com/data/Downloads/Resources/PDIFebruary2017.pdf?rev=B87B
The Cal South PDI and 7v7 document is here: http://media.calsouth.com/data/Downloads/Referees/2018/7v7.pdf
The PDI's are relatively clear that Goal Kicks are actual goal kicks (not rolling or throwing) and the "ball is put into play" when it leaves the penalty area. Keeper's cannot punt or drop kick. The ball is put into play when the keeper releases the ball, which 90% of the time also coincides with the ball leaving the penalty box because the GK has moved to the edge of the penalty box.
Last year's allowances are dead. The spirit of the rule is to encourage playing out of the back, as opposed to kicking the stuffing out of the ball and creating a 50/50 chance.
All of that said, expect some changes or clarifications.
Presidio has posted clear guidance: http://www.presidiosoccer.com/documents/7v7-standards-of-play.pdf
SCSDL has expressly referred to the Cal South PDIs and points to this document:
http://media.calsouth.com/data/Downloads/Resources/PDIFebruary2017.pdf?rev=B87B
The Cal South PDI and 7v7 document is here: http://media.calsouth.com/data/Downloads/Referees/2018/7v7.pdf
The PDI's are relatively clear that Goal Kicks are actual goal kicks (not rolling or throwing) and the "ball is put into play" when it leaves the penalty area. Keeper's cannot punt or drop kick. The ball is put into play when the keeper releases the ball, which 90% of the time also coincides with the ball leaving the penalty box because the GK has moved to the edge of the penalty box.
Last year's allowances are dead. The spirit of the rule is to encourage playing out of the back, as opposed to kicking the stuffing out of the ball and creating a 50/50 chance.
All of that said, expect some changes or clarifications.
I agree, which is another reason why the roll out of the build up line rule has been so bad. It shouldn't be on the refs to do that, but the refs/players/coaches are not on the same page yet. The refs and the printed rules are also not the same page yet.
There are 3 ambiguities in the Cal South document. First it implies the goalkeeper must wait for the build up line to set: "Once the opposing team is behind the build out line, the goalkeeper can pass, throw or roll the ball into play". That contradicts the info some refs have gotten and how some refs are calling it.
Second, it's unclear if the keeper can put it down and kick it for a long ball so long as it's not drop kicked. Maybe "pass" is supposed to equal "kick" but some refs aren't reading it that way.
Third, because of the first ambiguity that I pointed out, it's unclear from the rule if the goalkeeper releases early what players on the unfair side of the build out line can do. One ref told a friend the opposing team can't oppose the ball until he gets over the build out line.
I agree the goalkicks should be goalkicks. I don't know where that ref got it from. The presidio doc is clearer...also addresses the issue of delay.