President Joe Biden

what-happened said:
There was never going to be a simple solution. The trumpian talks set prisoners free on both sides. Most prisoners released by the afghani government were hired guns during the fighting season who would go back to their poppy fields when they weren't being forced to fight. There were high ranking Taliban that were eventually let go. The Taliban released a batch of kidnapped provincial leaders. The reality is both sides were trying to save face and we were looking for an honorable exit to a stupid excursion. The 1 MAY trump deadline was conditions based, code for not leaving and find a reason to stay.

The white haired senile guy blew a perfect opportunity to leave afghanistan in an honorable way, showing military strength. We actually left twice, in the darkness, with tail firmlyl tucked between our legs. Either way we were leaving. Let's hope that we are able to "diplomat" our remaining people out of the country in an expedient manner. the 20th anniversary of 9/11 will quickly be here. That part of the world is all about symbolism, drama, and posturing, and playing to their base. Keep in mind vidoes of ISIS in Iraq and what they did to their political prisoners.
Click to expand...

What would an honorable way have looked like?
 
what-happened said:
The terrain piece is really only applicable to when we directly engaged Taliban, and that hasn't been the case for some time. The winter reduces their mobility (everyone's mobility) into and out of sanctuary (pakistani border) . Sanctuary hasn't been as important since they haven't really been on the run since 2013-14ish. The Taliban have been in control of most of the country for some time. Besides, winter is everyone's problem. Our biggest advantage is and always will be our air assets. Bagram and Kabul are routinely impacted by winter weather. Better to operate in reliable weather.

The bottom line is we demonstrated weakness, militarily and diplomatically. Demonstration of strength goes a long way in that part of the world. Keep your fingers crossed that the Taliban truly emerge enlightened and can particpate as adults on the world stage.... I wouldn't hold my breath but maybe the State Department is full of smarter people than we thought.
Click to expand...

What does "demonstration of strength" look like?
 
tenacious said:
Not sure your assessment of the weather in Afghanistan is correct. The weather in Kabul in Dec is 200+ average hours of sunshine with daytime temps in the 2 - 15 degrees Celcus range. https://weather-and-climate.com/average-monthly-Rainfall-Temperature-Sunshine,Kabul,Afghanistan

Now the conditions of the mountain passes that the Taliban would need to launch a winter attack in Dec? That all shuts down.
Click to expand...
I dont' know how much time you've spent in Kabul and Bagram during the winter over the last 15 years or so. We can have a weather conversation about Kabul, Bagram, etc. Rest assured both airfields can be impacted by winter weather. Can we plan around it, sure....but why?

Weather impacts European bases, etc. Drone, strike aircraft coming from a long way out are impacted by winter weather.

The days of the Taliban retreating to winter sanctuary are long gone. That's not where they hang out, and if they did, our troop levels would be back at Obama surge #s.
 
tenacious said:
How would you have handled the situation differently?
Click to expand...

With Honor and Dignity.

Details:
Maintain Bagram as the center of gravity and withdrawal operations on our timeline.

Exfil ALL US personnel, SIV's, and equipment through Bagram.

Initiate around the clock low altitude strategic flyovers using B-1's, B-2 Stealth Bombers and B-52's.

Provide the Taliban daily target acquisition satellite photos of their strategic facilities, equipment, and troop concentrations...with a guarantee that these items will disappear should they or any terrorist group choose to interfere.

Upon mission completion of an orderly withdrawal... destroy Bagram and any remaining equipment.

Conduct one final flyover to drop leaflets of Donald Trump flipping the bird!
 
what-happened said:
I dont' know how much time you've spent in Kabul and Bagram during the winter over the last 15 years or so. We can have a weather conversation about Kabul, Bagram, etc. Rest assured both airfields can be impacted by winter weather. Can we plan around it, sure....but why?

Weather impacts European bases, etc. Drone, strike aircraft coming from a long way out are impacted by winter weather.

The days of the Taliban retreating to winter sanctuary are long gone. That's not where they hang out, and if they did, our troop levels would be back at Obama surge #s.
Click to expand...

A couple years back I drove highway M41 along the northern Afghan/Tajik boarder from Duschambe to Khorugh while driving the silk road. So I'm familiar with the terrain. There is no comparable landscape in the US, but as you cross central Asia up into the Hindu Kush all the way out to Kathmandu there are tall mountains, grassy steps and gigantic temperate valleys protected by enormous and steep slopes covered in what looks like chaparral. And like most cities in central Asia I'd guess Kabul and Bagram are both located in valleys and would have year round air service in the wintertime.

And while I realize this is the internet and anyone can say anything; but from what I saw you'd have a hard time convincing me that a winter air retreat was the "riskier" option.
 
met61 said:
With Honor and Dignity.

Details:
Maintain Bagram as the center of gravity and withdrawal operations on our timeline.

Exfil ALL US personnel, SIV's, and equipment through Bagram.

Initiate around the clock low altitude strategic flyovers using B-1's, B-2 Stealth Bombers and B-52's.

Provide the Taliban daily target acquisition satellite photos of their strategic facilities, equipment, and troop concentrations...with a guarantee that these items will disappear should they or any terrorist group choose to interfere.

Upon mission completion of an orderly withdrawal... destroy Bagram and any remaining equipment.

Conduct one final flyover to drop leaflets of Donald Trump flipping the bird!
Click to expand...

It's interesting, you don't actually seem opposed to the withdraw.

Anyway I'm not a military expert so hopefully some of the other posters will weigh in. But weren't we were already bombing everything the satellite photos showed us for the past 20 years? I.e. I'm not sure that threat carries much weight. Likewise, as to the B-1's and Stealth bombers... I don't know how well that works against gorilla warfare attacks like the Taliban utilized?

That said... I'm with you on the orderly withdrawal part as my insides are telling me this is going to end US Embassy in Tehran bad.
 
dad4 said:
If you want to discuss Afghanistan, take a look at the records of both senile old men who were on the ballot last time.

The white haired senile old man left Afghanistan by withdrawing support first and planning the evacuation second.

The orange haired senile old man released thousands of terrorists in exchange for nothing more than a promise to negotiate.

Neither one stands out as an example of foreign policy wisdom.

Perhaps I’ll get a chance to vote for a green haired senile old man some day. Maybe he’d do better.
Click to expand...
You're a useful idiot of the left...sleep well coward.
 
tenacious said:
It's interesting, you don't actually seem opposed to the withdraw.

Anyway I'm not a military expert so hopefully some of the other posters will weigh in. But weren't we were already bombing everything the satellite photos showed us for the past 20 years? I.e. I'm not sure that threat carries much weight. Likewise, as to the B-1's and Stealth bombers... I don't know how well that works against gorilla warfare attacks like the Taliban utilized?

That said... I'm with you on the orderly withdrawal part as my insides are telling me this is going to end US Embassy in Tehran bad.
Click to expand...
Should have gone it alone in Tora Bora, killed bin Laden, and been withdrawn by Christmas 2001.

Instead we end up with a deadly and completely disgraceful goat screw by a senile old f*ck propped up by the left and their useful idiot enablers like @dad4 and his so-called "conservative" ilk.

Yep, you completely missed the point regarding the obvious and significant threat from air strikes... Not only did the Taliban mass their forces to roll through the entire country in less than a week and maintain it, they would need every bit of infrastructure in Afghanistan for their future survival... A target rich environment to say the least.
 
tenacious said:
A couple years back I drove highway M41 along the northern Afghan/Tajik boarder from Duschambe to Khorugh while driving the silk road. So I'm familiar with the terrain. There is no comparable landscape in the US, but as you cross central Asia up into the Hindu Kush all the way out to Kathmandu there are tall mountains, grassy steps and gigantic temperate valleys protected by enormous and steep slopes covered in what looks like chaparral. And like most cities in central Asia I'd guess Kabul and Bagram are both located in valleys and would have year round air service in the wintertime.

And while I realize this is the internet and anyone can say anything; but from what I saw you'd have a hard time convincing me that a winter air retreat was the "riskier" option.
Click to expand...


Sounds like a great trip.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. What I'm telling you is that a winter withdrawal presents more problem sets to work through. We are going down a rabbit hole. Strategic airlift isn't normally hampered by weather. Tactical assets routinely are . There are plenty of days from NOV-APR that hamper the ability to: fly medevac, fly CAS, Drones, etc.
 
met61 said:
Should have gone it alone in Tora Bora, killed bin Laden, and been withdrawn by Christmas 2001.

Instead we end up with a deadly and completely disgraceful goat screw by a senile old f*ck propped up by the left and their useful idiot enablers like @dad4 and his so-called "conservative" ilk.

Yep, you completely missed the point regarding the obvious and significant threat from air strikes... Not only did the Taliban mass their forces to roll through the entire country in less than a week and maintain it, they would need every bit of infrastructure in Afghanistan for their future survival... A target rich environment to say the least.
Click to expand...
Why no anger at the guy who released the Talib commanders? Doesn't he get a least some of your vitriol? Seems like letting them out of jail isn't looking so smart these days, either.
 
dad4 said:
Why no anger at the guy who released the Talib commanders? Doesn't he get a least some of your vitriol? Seems like letting them out of jail isn't looking so smart these days, either.
Click to expand...
Looks like Daddy continues to lives rent free in someone's empty head...
 
dad4 said:
Why no anger at the guy who released the Talib commanders? Doesn't he get a least some of your vitriol? Seems like letting them out of jail isn't looking so smart these days, either.
Click to expand...

“Are there no prisons?” asked Scrooge.

-- Dickens, 1843
 
tenacious said:
It's interesting, you don't actually seem opposed to the withdraw.

Anyway I'm not a military expert so hopefully some of the other posters will weigh in. But weren't we were already bombing everything the satellite photos showed us for the past 20 years? I.e. I'm not sure that threat carries much weight. Likewise, as to the B-1's and Stealth bombers... I don't know how well that works against gorilla warfare attacks like the Taliban utilized?

That said... I'm with you on the orderly withdrawal part as my insides are telling me this is going to end US Embassy in Tehran bad.
Click to expand...
Add the old and steady B-52 to the steady diet of B1s and B2 and that's how we initially displaced/defeated the Taliban. Troops in the open. Not finishing Tora Bora and staying to build schools led us to where we are today. We didn't go there initially to fight an insurgency. We created an insurgency that had greater political will - we never stood a chance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top