President Joe Biden

crush said:
There was a better way that's for damn sure. The right way was never to be there in the first place, right?
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The right way was to kill bin laden, inflict pain and suffering on the Taliban, then leave. Nation building in this part of the world is for the hopeless romantics and dummies who don't get history.

All we've done is line the pockets of the Taliban and Afghan Government with your tax dollars.
 
what-happened said:
The right way was to kill bin laden, inflict pain and suffering on the Taliban, then leave. Nation building in this part of the world is for the hopeless romantics and dummies who don't get history.

All we've done is line the pockets of the Taliban and Afghan Government with your tax dollars.
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Yes, way before 911 would have been nice if he truly was a bad guy. Chasing him in the caves in Afghanistan seems stupid now. The media has played us all so let's go with the wait and see and see how this all plays out. Something seems off in my brain.
 
crush said:
Yes, way before 911 would have been nice if he truly was a bad guy. Chasing him in the caves in Afghanistan seems stupid now. The media has played us all so let's go with the wait and see and see how this all plays out. Something seems off in my brain.
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Your brain is fine...it's the politicians that are off.
 
what-happened said:
The right way was to kill bin laden, inflict pain and suffering on the Taliban, then leave. Nation building in this part of the world is for the hopeless romantics and dummies who don't get history.

All we've done is line the pockets of the Taliban and Afghan Government with your tax dollars.
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No one leaves Afghanistan victorious. All they do is fight. They fight each other until outsiders try to come in them all the swords point outward. They are headed for civil war, yet again.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
No one leaves Afghanistan victorious. All they do is fight. They fight each other until outsiders try to come in them all the swords point outward. They are headed for civil war, yet again.
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What are your thoughts on China supposedly wanting to come in and set up? Would like to here perspective thoughts on this…
 
Hüsker Dü said:
No one leaves Afghanistan victorious. All they do is fight. They fight each other until outsiders try to come in them all the swords point outward. They are headed for civil war, yet again.
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Persia, Macedonia, the Abbasid Empire, and Mongolia have all successfully invaded Afanistan.
 
what-happened said:
I'm no Joe Biden fan, to say the least. In this case, he (or someone) decided to not listen to anymore of the BS coming from the Pentagon and others who've been getting rich off of this ill fated adventure. It could be a fatal wound if the dems eat their own, which they could. The writing has been on the fall for Afghanistan for some time.

To be fair, I think trump would have had to navigate the same waters, the same optics, and similar scenarios. There are tactical things that could have been done differently but the end result is the same. The end state is to evacuate the embassy staff, make arrangements to evacuate contractors and other US citizens, and figure out how to get as many AFghans out as possible. We are not going to get all of them out. Next week no one will care about who didn't get out. We'll be back to COVID theater and partisan frothing at the mouth. So much easier for the MSM to do. They are completely out of their element with this afghan scenario. The people they have one to provide commentary are part of the reason why all of this is a disaster. It's a joke.


How did Reagan turn around Beirut? We also left there with tails tucked between legs..unfortunately.
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Reagan turned around the fp misadventures. The wins in the Cold War covered up missteps like Iran contra and Beirut. Biden would need something similarly big to turn around his fortunes.
 
LASTMAN14 said:
Does BC count? :rolleyes:
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If the terrain is impossible to conquer, why did it happen so many times?

Afghanistan wasn't especially hard to conquer until it found itself between two major powers and was able to play them off against each other. (Russia/UK, then US/USSR, then Russia/US)

I suspect that advantage goes away if Russia decides that Western Xinjiang sounds nicer than Eastern Chechnya.
 
dad4 said:
If the terrain is impossible to conquer, why did it happen so many times?

Afghanistan wasn't especially hard to conquer until it found itself between two major powers and was able to play them off against each other. (Russia/UK, then US/USSR, then Russia/US)

I suspect that advantage goes away if Russia decides that Western Xinjiang sounds nicer than Eastern Chechnya.
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So, no BC then.
 
dad4 said:
If the terrain is impossible to conquer, why did it happen so many times?

Afghanistan wasn't especially hard to conquer until it found itself between two major powers and was able to play them off against each other. (Russia/UK, then US/USSR, then Russia/US)

I suspect that advantage goes away if Russia decides that Western Xinjiang sounds nicer than Eastern Chechnya.
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You are comparing apples to oranges...The conquering isn't the hard part. It's being able to remain the conqueror that's the hard part. To understand the terrain in Afghanistan is to know it's the reason why afghans are nearly impossible to defeat. They retreat to the terrain that makes it impossible to get to them. The writing was on the wall the day we decided to build an all girls school in some god forsaken valley along the pak/afghan border. They chuckled when beauty salons opened in Kabul and Kandahar.

Western countries don't have the ganas to see these things through. We are not the soviet union, seeding entire valleys with mines that looked like toys. We are not built to fight long, ideological wars. The Afghanis literally have nothing else to do. They don't need progress, they don't need to evolve their society. We never lost an engagement in the field, yet we lost the war. Poetic to say the least and the only outcome possible.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
No one leaves Afghanistan victorious. All they do is fight. They fight each other until outsiders try to come in them all the swords point outward. They are headed for civil war, yet again.
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Possibly. But it's possible they don't sink back into civil war. What we did was weaken the northern alliance and bolstered the Taliban's legitimacy. They've evolved and will be quietly supported by neighbors, especially by Pakistan. After all, the Taliban are the love child of the CIA and ISI. An acceptably stable Afghanistan is in the best interest of Pakistan. The Taliban have evolved over the last 20 years. They are no longer a rag tag group of knuckleheads who rose out of the ashes of the Afghan/Russian war. They now have offices in Doha and new, young leaders in place who see the advantages of not being a country on the margins. Hell, they are on twittter.
 
Just a note -- based on the record of 20 years of polls and surveys about our troops in Afghanistan -- Biden is the first President to follow the opinion of the majority of the US voters and actually bring the troops home.
 
espola said:
Just a note -- based on the record of 20 years of polls and surveys about our troops in Afghanistan -- Biden is the first President to follow the opinion of the majority of the US voters and actually bring the troops home.
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wasn't trump on the same path in Afghanistan? I will say this, the only reason this has been as "peaceful" as this has been is because of the ceasefire agreement last Apri/May. The Taliban are going to sit idly by for the next days/few weeks (until 911) and watch this play out. They won't control the population. They'll continue to allow masses of people to flood the airfield. It makes for great video/pics and provides the MSM great footage for experts to pontificate over. If they truly wanted to disrupt the evacuation, they would park a dozer or two at the halfway point of the runway and deny the runway to US Aircraft. The runway is just long enough to allow a C17 to take of and land. I suppose the other way to look at it is that we are in no mood to be messed with right now. Something adverse happens, and the gloves come off. We haven't fired a shot in anger yet. 9-11 is but a few short weeks away. The Taliban for the strategic communications double U . White house strategic communications intern for the L

Something about the americans have all the watches but the afghans have all the time.
 
Kabul Airport is up and running. Flights to America? I will not pass judgement on what I dont know. Perception right now is impossible to see. I hope were helping people who need our help. No woman or girls on this flight.

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