NEW Referee Abuse Policy

[whatithink]

The solution is simple: Parents need to shut the fuck up on the sidelines.

The only problems with the new policy are: (1) the penalties are not harsh enough; and (2) there's still no assurance that all referees will enforce a "zero tolerance" rule.

The zero tolerance policy will only work if all refs are told there is no discretion: one complaint and dumbshit dad and crazy mom are suspended for 2 or more games. If every ref enforces that rule remorselessly, the zero tolerance rule will have its intended effect within a couple months. The sidelines will become respectful, positive and something approaching how we want our children to behave. Hopefully this installment of the zero tolerance policy will have the teeth to be successful.
Because... let's be honest: the ones most vocal about bad refs are the ones whose kid's actual ability level diverges most widely from the parents' perception of the kid's ability level.
So shut up unless you're saying something positive in support of your own team, i.e., it's called cheering and your kid will love it.

If you really think your kid is in danger, take them off the field or put them in golf. But you won't, because what it's really about is your misperception of how much you know the LOTG and your kid's ability level.

I was at a game years ago when suddenly the refs stopped the play and talked to the other coach, then walked off the field. Apparently a parent on the other team was banned from the facility and the refs recognized him. He eventually left after much arguing (with the coach and parents of the other team). I've no idea what he did, but I'm thinking full "crazy".

 

[tjinaz]

The solution is simple: Parents need to shut the fuck up on the sidelines.

The only problems with the new policy are: (1) the penalties are not harsh enough; and (2) there's still no assurance that all referees will enforce a "zero tolerance" rule.

The zero tolerance policy will only work if all refs are told there is no discretion: one complaint and dumbshit dad and crazy mom are suspended for 2 or more games. If every ref enforces that rule remorselessly, the zero tolerance rule will have its intended effect within a couple months. The sidelines will become respectful, positive and something approaching how we want our children to behave. Hopefully this installment of the zero tolerance policy will have the teeth to be successful.
Because... let's be honest: the ones most vocal about bad refs are the ones whose kid's actual ability level diverges most widely from the parents' perception of the kid's ability level.
So shut up unless you're saying something positive in support of your own team, i.e., it's called cheering and your kid will love it.

If you really think your kid is in danger, take them off the field or put them in golf. But you won't, because what it's really about is your misperception of how much you know the LOTG and your kid's ability level.

Parents act up because they see injustice and have no other outlet for recompense. If there were a mechanism where the Coach or DOC or who ever could submit complaints about bad refs that would sooth a lot of feathers. Most parents go off because they have no other avenue to protest. If there were a legitimate method where coaches could submit video along with their complaints to a ref authority that had the power to correct the ref or send them to remedial training that would provide a relief valve. Parents act up and to calm them down all the coach has to do is say we disagree with your calls and will be submitting video to the ref board for review. Parents go over the top because they see no penalty for bad decisions so they feel helpless. This would also weed out the corrupt refs after they get called to the carpet for multiple egregious calls favoring one side.

 

[whatithink]

Parents act up because they see injustice and have no other outlet for recompense. If there were a mechanism where the Coach or DOC or who ever could submit complaints about bad refs that would sooth a lot of feathers. Most parents go off because they have no other avenue to protest. If there were a legitimate method where coaches could submit video along with their complaints to a ref authority that had the power to correct the ref or send them to remedial training that would provide a relief valve. Parents act up and to calm them down all the coach has to do is say we disagree with your calls and will be submitting video to the ref board for review. Parents go over the top because they see no penalty for bad decisions so they feel helpless. This would also weed out the corrupt refs after they get called to the carpet for multiple egregious calls favoring one side.

I don't doubt some parents are as you described, but would not agree to it as a generalization. For any game my kids play in I can tell which parents will shout at the ref from our team and which clubs we are playing have parents that will do the same - every single game. That's not about injustice, its just being a dick and there are far more parents that are dicks, imho, that those railing about perceived injustices caused by bad ref decisions on the field.

 

[tjinaz]

I don't doubt some parents are as you described, but would not agree to it as a generalization. For any game my kids play in I can tell which parents will shout at the ref from our team and which clubs we are playing have parents that will do the same - every single game. That's not about injustice, its just being a dick and there are far more parents that are dicks, imho, that those railing about perceived injustices caused by bad ref decisions on the field.

There are those in every crowd. But at least the reasonable parents can calm them down. Nothing worse spending $1200 to go to a out of state tournament then get jobbed by a bad ref in a crucial game. Make even an agreeable parent yell at the ref.

 

[sigmabody]

The zero tolerance policy will only work if all refs are told there is no discretion: one complaint and dumbshit dad and crazy mom are suspended for 2 or more games. If every ref enforces that rule remorselessly, the zero tolerance rule will have its intended effect within a couple months. The sidelines will become respectful, positive and something approaching how we want our children to behave. Hopefully this installment of the zero tolerance policy will have the teeth to be successful.
Because... let's be honest: the ones most vocal about bad refs are the ones whose kid's actual ability level diverges most widely from the parents' perception of the kid's ability level.
So shut up unless you're saying something positive in support of your own team, i.e., it's called cheering and your kid will love it.

One of the main issues which leads to bad decision making is being completely out of touch with how the real world works, and living in a delusional fantasy world. People in that state use their view of the world to evaluate how decisions might go, and then are shocked when they make the situation worse.

Here's a potentially helpful thought experiment: think about the last time you were really upset about some perceived governance injustice, and then think if the governing body told the people who were upset to "sit down, shut up, we don't care what you think, we do what we want, your opinion means nothing". Do you really think those people are going to become respectful and positive toward those governing officials after being berated and ignored repeatedly (or perhaps imprisoned, or worse)?

... cause that's what you just said, and if you think about it a little, you might come to understand how dumb and unrealistic it is. People don't work like that. What this policy would almost certainly do is cause escalation, because people would feel like there's no other route to be heard.

Intelligent people, particularly those with any experience in leadership, understand this. We probably could use a couple of those people in US Soccer, before the current situation gets worse, and leads to something more than verbal abuse.

 

[whatithink]

One of the main issues which leads to bad decision making is being completely out of touch with how the real world works, and living in a delusional fantasy world. People in that state use their view of the world to evaluate how decisions might go, and then are shocked when they make the situation worse.

Here's a potentially helpful thought experiment: think about the last time you were really upset about some perceived governance injustice, and then think if the governing body told the people who were upset to "sit down, shut up, we don't care what you think, we do what we want, your opinion means nothing". Do you really think those people are going to become respectful and positive toward those governing officials after being berated and ignored repeatedly (or perhaps imprisoned, or worse)?

... cause that's what you just said, and if you think about it a little, you might come to understand how dumb and unrealistic it is. People don't work like that. What this policy would almost certainly do is cause escalation, because people would feel like there's no other route to be heard.

Intelligent people, particularly those with any experience in leadership, understand this. We probably could use a couple of those people in US Soccer, before the current situation gets worse, and leads to something more than verbal abuse.

I don't doubt what you are saying may come to pass, but all it really does is demonstrate the utter stupidity of people. I've seen parents drinking on the sidelines of youth soccer games, esp. if its a travel weekend, but also just random tournaments, and seen those escalate quickly. I recall years ago a dad getting arrested at a local tournament over a U-little game. I recall thinking how utterly pathetic that was and how completely stupid said dad will feel, in jail, over a U-little game. Blaming US Soccer for the stupidity of people is just a cop out. Without refs there are no games, allowing the minority to drive refs from the game is not the actions of intelligent people.

 

[outside!]

I am personally significantly less worried about a referee stopping the game to feel up a kid in front of the coaches, other kids, and 20+ parents watching the game, than I am about people left alone and unsupervised with kids, but I supposed it is a conceptual concern.

Many referees are children. Referees have training classes that are only referees. Blind trust of institutions that should be trustworthy has turned out to be a bad idea.

 

[outside!]

The solution is simple: Parents need to shut the fuck up on the sidelines.

That is the first piece of advise I give new soccer parents.

 

[sigmabody]

I don't doubt what you are saying may come to pass, but all it really does is demonstrate the utter stupidity of people. I've seen parents drinking on the sidelines of youth soccer games, esp. if its a travel weekend, but also just random tournaments, and seen those escalate quickly. I recall years ago a dad getting arrested at a local tournament over a U-little game. I recall thinking how utterly pathetic that was and how completely stupid said dad will feel, in jail, over a U-little game. Blaming US Soccer for the stupidity of people is just a cop out. Without refs there are no games, allowing the minority to drive refs from the game is not the actions of intelligent people.

This would undoubtedly increase with your proposal of strict enforcement. In my opinion, that's a worse outcome than the present situation; that is, your proposal would make the situation worse.

Certainly agree about the stupidity of people, but there is an abundance of that around. I would absolutely blame US Soccer if the enact a brain-dead one-sided policy which indirectly causes more escalations.

What I'm suggesting, for reference, is to have a feedback system, so that parents feel like there's some accountability. Several people seem to misunderstand that as "allowing the minority to drive refs from the game"; that's not what a feedback system does. A feedback system does three things, broadly:
- Allows parents/others to express satisfaction, dissatisfaction, and/or concerns with the officiating
- Allows the league(s) to bias selection of referees based on relative ratings, as desired
- Allows parents/others to see the relative ratings for referees (which, among other things, can allow a sort of "reality check" for parents who might otherwise complain a lot); note that this is similar to what some of the more knowledgeable parents might already do on the sidelines (I do this regularly among the team parents for my son's team, as an example)

No part of the above actually removes any officials from games in general. What it does is allows the officiating to potentially get better over time, while allowing an outlet for parents to express frustrations aside from on the sidelines and/or in the parking lots.

The current situation, to stretch an analogy, is like allowing known pedophiles to officiate games, fondle kids openly on the field, and then telling parents that they cannot complain about it or they will be banished from the games, while doing nothing to fix the actual problems. I suggest that if you think about the problem in that context (even if it's a silly analogy), it will help understand why the "sit down a shut up" strategy is so dumb and will never work.

 

[watfly]

The solution is simple: Parents need to shut the fuck up on the sidelines.

The only problems with the new policy are: (1) the penalties are not harsh enough; and (2) there's still no assurance that all referees will enforce a "zero tolerance" rule.

The zero tolerance policy will only work if all refs are told there is no discretion: one complaint and dumbshit dad and crazy mom are suspended for 2 or more games. If every ref enforces that rule remorselessly, the zero tolerance rule will have its intended effect within a couple months. The sidelines will become respectful, positive and something approaching how we want our children to behave. Hopefully this installment of the zero tolerance policy will have the teeth to be successful.
Because... let's be honest: the ones most vocal about bad refs are the ones whose kid's actual ability level diverges most widely from the parents' perception of the kid's ability level.
So shut up unless you're saying something positive in support of your own team, i.e., it's called cheering and your kid will love it.

If you really think your kid is in danger, take them off the field or put them in golf. But you won't, because what it's really about is your misperception of how much you know the LOTG and your kid's ability level.

I appreciate the concept, but I have concerns that this will backfire. This policy will only increase interactions between referees and parents/spectators, not decrease them. I can only imagine the disruption to games while a parent, or parents, are being tossed.

We really need to make coaches 100% responsible, for parent behavior. The ref should be responsible for the game, not the parents. Easier said than done, but better than putting that burden on the referees. A coach has more tools to deal with parent behavior than ref's do, even under this policy.

Maybe this is standard now, but every game should have teams on opposite sidelines, with parents to the left of the bench so they don't have direct contact with the AR. If there is an issue the ref should go straight to the coach and say who needs to get tossed and why. Then its the coaches responsibility to do so. I coach can leverage play time and kids status on the team, if necessary to get parent to comply.

 

[whatithink]

This would undoubtedly increase with your proposal of strict enforcement. In my opinion, that's a worse outcome than the present situation; that is, your proposal would make the situation worse.

Certainly agree about the stupidity of people, but there is an abundance of that around. I would absolutely blame US Soccer if the enact a brain-dead one-sided policy which indirectly causes more escalations.

What I'm suggesting, for reference, is to have a feedback system, so that parents feel like there's some accountability. Several people seem to misunderstand that as "allowing the minority to drive refs from the game"; that's not what a feedback system does. A feedback system does three things, broadly:
- Allows parents/others to express satisfaction, dissatisfaction, and/or concerns with the officiating
- Allows the league(s) to bias selection of referees based on relative ratings, as desired
- Allows parents/others to see the relative ratings for referees (which, among other things, can allow a sort of "reality check" for parents who might otherwise complain a lot); note that this is similar to what some of the more knowledgeable parents might already do on the sidelines (I do this regularly among the team parents for my son's team, as an example)

No part of the above actually removes any officials from games in general. What it does is allows the officiating to potentially get better over time, while allowing an outlet for parents to express frustrations aside from on the sidelines and/or in the parking lots.

The current situation, to stretch an analogy, is like allowing known pedophiles to officiate games, fondle kids openly on the field, and then telling parents that they cannot complain about it or they will be banished from the games, while doing nothing to fix the actual problems. I suggest that if you think about the problem in that context (even if it's a silly analogy), it will help understand why the "sit down a shut up" strategy is so dumb and will never work.

Feedback systems on how many thousands of games every weekend, 12 months of the year! Seriously! That would be impossible to administer, not least as you could not accept the ratings of parents of refs because you don't know if they know shit, are sincere, are dicks, etc. So you'd have to review ... potentially thousands of reviews every weekend. No disrespect, but that nuts!

This is youth soccer. Refs will be good, mediocre, great, shit ... Every weekend in the top professional leagues in the world, ref'd by the best refs in the world, mistakes are made, decisions suck, real actual money is lost (league positions, Euro qualification).

I'm really not sure why people expect refs in youth soccer to actually be good. And now you're advocating for a feedback system, roflmao.

 

[Slobodan]

Parents learn, pretty quickly, when a ref stops the game and refuses to continue until a parent leaves the field. If you want to have a coach yell across the field and call the parent out by name, even better.

 

[watfly]

Parents learn, pretty quickly, when a ref stops the game and refuses to continue until a parent leaves the field. If you want to have a coach yell across the field and call the parent out by name, even better.

My point is the parents shouldn't be across the field, they should be on the same sideline. On one team we had a team manager help control parent behavior. It worked fairly well, but that responsibility would suck.

At the Gothia Cup we had a CR ref sit down in the middle of the field, legs crossed, and refuse to continue until the other teams coaches left the field. It took some time to get the game restarted.

 

[outside!]

Point of reference. When my kids started club soccer, I bought a camera so that I would have a reason to keep my mouth shut. Fairly quickly I discovered the camera had video capability and I started videoing the games. When editing the video after the games, I reviewed many calls that I thought were suspect over the years. The majority of the time, I found that the ref made the right call. Think about that. Many times when you think the ref made a bad call, you are wrong, or the call is so close that it could go either way. The referees are usually closer to the action than you are. It is youth soccer. None of it matters, and I have as much experience as anyone on these boards. Quit whining about the new ref policy and STFU on the sidelines or don't go to the games. The only sound from spectators during a game should be cheers and positive comments for any player that makes a good play (on either team). Remember to thank the referee team after the game if they did a passable job.

 

[Grace T.]

Point of reference. When my kids started club soccer, I bought a camera so that I would have a reason to keep my mouth shut. Fairly quickly I discovered the camera had video capability and I started videoing the games. When editing the video after the games, I reviewed many calls that I thought were suspect over the years. The majority of the time, I found that the ref made the right call. Think about that. Many times when you think the ref made a bad call, you are wrong, or the call is so close that it could go either way. The referees are usually closer to the action than you are. It is youth soccer. None of it matters, and I have as much experience as anyone on these boards. Quit whining about the new ref policy and STFU on the sidelines or don't go to the games. The only sound from spectators during a game should be cheers and positive comments for any player that makes a good play (on either team). Remember to thank the referee team after the game if they did a passable job.

I generally agree with your sentiment. The situation has gotten so distasteful that I didn't go back to club reffing after COVID and I've only gotten back into AYSO reffing with my kid doing service hours. I also know how hard it is....I had two brand new baby ars last Saturday and I'm not that experienced as a CR (only have an intermediate) so I know how much of a challenge it can be. There are two situations, though, which I think are exceptional. 1. When the referee loses control over the match and there is a tit-for-tat general escalation. While soccer is a contact sport, there is a general expectation that refs will keep the game safe by properly managing the game and refs these days are reluctant (because of the consequences including the reports they have to file, tournament or league rules, the questioning that will result, the reluctance to so thoroughly influence the game if they aren't sure, and the severe penalties placed on youth player) to show cards. 2. when there is outright corruption.

And yes, we should be grateful given the ref shortages the referees are out there doing their job, but when did we settle for a "passable job" as a society? Yes, one failing as a society is we fail to give grace, but that doesn't mean we should also settle for terrible...a passable job seems to be a minimum standard we should hope for, but we seem locked into this situation where there's inflationary pressures on club soccer costs, we are pilling a bunch of admin training and requirements on the refs, but don't want to pay more to retain and train good refs so we settle for the passable.

Both things can be true at the same time. People are behaving like a**hats and need to learn to shut up, especially since you get what you pay for. And the behavior is made worse because of the helplessness both coaches and parents feel that the system seems to have no accountability, particularly in the minimal circumstances when things get egregious by way of safety or corruption.

 

[watfly]

Point of reference. When my kids started club soccer, I bought a camera so that I would have a reason to keep my mouth shut. Fairly quickly I discovered the camera had video capability and I started videoing the games. When editing the video after the games, I reviewed many calls that I thought were suspect over the years. The majority of the time, I found that the ref made the right call. Think about that. Many times when you think the ref made a bad call, you are wrong, or the call is so close that it could go either way. The referees are usually closer to the action than you are. It is youth soccer. None of it matters, and I have as much experience as anyone on these boards. Quit whining about the new ref policy and STFU on the sidelines or don't go to the games. The only sound from spectators during a game should be cheers and positive comments for any player that makes a good play (on either team). Remember to thank the referee team after the game if they did a passable job.

It's not just ref calls that appear different than you remember, it's the game play itself. It's often way different than what you thought you saw. It's the reason I believe that game film review is so critical to player development.

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

adults who give up their Saturdays so your kid can play.

They getting paid don't they?
I wouldn't call that "giving up their Saturdays"

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

I’ve never complained about ref fees. To be honest, I don’t think they get paid enough. We should also have rates for higher rated refs. I think if we did that and we know what level ref we’re paying for we know what to expect and can make decisions if it’s worth playing or not on any given tournament or league.

We should have a rating system for refs.

After each game, both sides can rate the ref.

I can surely see the abuse of this system if it's an open system like a website where anyone can register as a user and submit a rating...

But I don't know... something... something where the good ones are rated as such and known... and the bad ones... well then they're not being used for important games...

I get it. There's a shortage to begin with... so we gotta live with whoever shows up... But it'll be nice to know which ref is showing up, his or her rating... etc

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

I think US Soccer could do two things to improve the overall quality of officiating:
- Reduce the red tape involved in getting more people in the pipeline (eg: remove the ancillary training and contractual requirements, allow a "test in" for certification without the mandatory annual training hours, etc.)
- Add public ratings to weed out the truly bad referees, and reward the good referees

Aside: There's a perception that a pay increase would improve the quality, but I'm not sure that would do much good. I suspect that some people who referee are motivated by the money (as side income), and some are motivated by making the overall youth game better. For the former, you wouldn't improve the quality much by increasing the payments, and for the latter that's largely immaterial. Moreover, we really want to attract more of the latter (imho), so I think US Soccer should focus on attracting and retaining that group more.

Agreed on both fronts wholeheartedly...

 

[Phoenix Soccer Dad]

This would undoubtedly increase with your proposal of strict enforcement. In my opinion, that's a worse outcome than the present situation; that is, your proposal would make the situation worse.

Certainly agree about the stupidity of people, but there is an abundance of that around. I would absolutely blame US Soccer if the enact a brain-dead one-sided policy which indirectly causes more escalations.

What I'm suggesting, for reference, is to have a feedback system, so that parents feel like there's some accountability. Several people seem to misunderstand that as "allowing the minority to drive refs from the game"; that's not what a feedback system does. A feedback system does three things, broadly:
- Allows parents/others to express satisfaction, dissatisfaction, and/or concerns with the officiating
- Allows the league(s) to bias selection of referees based on relative ratings, as desired
- Allows parents/others to see the relative ratings for referees (which, among other things, can allow a sort of "reality check" for parents who might otherwise complain a lot); note that this is similar to what some of the more knowledgeable parents might already do on the sidelines (I do this regularly among the team parents for my son's team, as an example)

No part of the above actually removes any officials from games in general. What it does is allows the officiating to potentially get better over time, while allowing an outlet for parents to express frustrations aside from on the sidelines and/or in the parking lots.

The current situation, to stretch an analogy, is like allowing known pedophiles to officiate games, fondle kids openly on the field, and then telling parents that they cannot complain about it or they will be banished from the games, while doing nothing to fix the actual problems. I suggest that if you think about the problem in that context (even if it's a silly analogy), it will help understand why the "sit down a shut up" strategy is so dumb and will never work.

Respectfully disagree here. I've been a ref for 8 years ... have you heard the dumb stuff parents yell? Most of them don't know the rules and/or don't understand how the game works. The value of parent input on referring is roughly zero. Satisfaction / dissatisfaction - let me help you out here ... did your team win? Then you're going to be largely satisfied. Your team lose? Shockingly, your dissatisfaction will be off the charts, it's clearly the ref's fault.

90% of a sideline simply isn't qualified to weigh in on the quality of the referee in the match they are watching. The 10% that are know better and stay quiet.

Good grief.

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

The solution is simple: Parents need to shut the fuck up on the sidelines.

I can agree with that.

I once saw a dad run up to the ref and got in his face over a call... DURING a game... not after a game.. DURING a game... yelling at the ref's face and wanted to get into a fist fight...

How is that guy still on the team? Yet he is... If I were a coach, that dad is perma-banned.... someone else can bring the kid to the games...