NEW Referee Abuse Policy

[sigmabody]

I disagree. I think every parent on our team would prefer a semi-competent parent officiating a game than a bad third-party referee, and I think most parents would agree with that sentiment.

And for the record, for all regular season and friendly games, I would personally much rather have a possibly biased parent official who is good and will keep the kids safer, than an unbiased shitty ref who endangers the kids through incompetence and pisses everyone off. Moreover, you'd have less sideline abuse also, because there would be an expectation of bias, and it would be written off.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

I disagree. I think every parent on our team would prefer a semi-competent parent officiating a game than a bad third-party referee, and I think most parents would agree with that sentiment.

Unfortunately, this has always been shown to be a "wouldn't it be nice if" rather than something that has a chance in hell of happening. Parents who complain need to sign up to be a ref. Or they should stop complaining. One or the other, pick one or stay quiet.

 

[Slobodan]

I don't buy that this is a parent-created issue. I don't know if coaches can grade the officials, but our club has had several incidents with bad refs which I'm aware of in which the club was basically not able to do anything. This includes an instances where they reported a violation of the league rules to Socal League, and the league did nothing.

I don't know about the pay issue. I know the club pays refs for all games ($150/game for a full crew, iirc), even scrimmages. I do not know how that compares to other leagues. I suspect tournaments pay more, and say they have higher quality officials, but in practice that doesn't seem to be the case.

I 100% agree with the statement: "Bad refs are just a symptom of a greater problem with our whole American soccer culture (in particular, lack of accountability)." Parents get upset with officiating on the field because there's a perception that crappy refs are not accountable for being bad, and there's no other way to hold them accountable. If US Soccer fixed that problem, and even just gave the impression of accountability for the officials, that would go a long way to reducing sideline complaints.

I'm certain I will be due a few suspensions under the new policy, and I'm probably the most understanding of all the parents on our team's sideline (and our team's parents are less vocal than the parents for many other teams). It's utter BS (imho) to just continue to try to increase penalties on parents while doing nothing at all to fix the quality problem. Raise prices, make a feedback portal, show ratings publicly, allow parents to ref games instead... whatever, just do something, and don't bury your metaphorical head in the sand like some spinless braid-dead pathetic organization.

And again, we're talking about maybe 5% (and probably closer to 2%) of all officials that fall into the "bad enough to report" category; it's not like the parents are demanding professional quality for every game. The bar is "not terrible" and "not dangerous for the kids because of gross incompetence".

The more I think about this new policy, the more pissed off at US Soccer I get. To quote a famous NY cop, "Now, you listen to me, jerk-off, if you're not a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem. Quit being a part of the fucking problem..."

LMFAO! I'd be willing to bet the league did nothing because they need every warm body they can find. I think refs are paid pretty well for what they do. If you're decent, you get some comments and move on. I think it's a bit like a baseball ump. As long as your strike zone sucks for both teams, right? And how the Hell are you going to get parents to ref a game when their kid is playing in it?

How much more can you pay refs? Parents in club soccer are already having to work 5-years longer than others to pay for it all.

 

[Slobodan]

And for the record, for all regular season and friendly games, I would personally much rather have a possibly biased parent official who is good and will keep the kids safer, than an unbiased shitty ref who endangers the kids through incompetence and pisses everyone off. Moreover, you'd have less sideline abuse also, because there would be an expectation of bias, and it would be written off.

LOL! "It would be written off."

Sure... parents are spending $1,500 for a weekend tournament and they're just going to write it off? I will say this... I love your passion.

 

[Grace T.]

I disagree. I think every parent on our team would prefer a semi-competent parent officiating a game than a bad third-party referee, and I think most parents would agree with that sentiment.

That wouldn't work for tournaments, but if you had a public feedback system and ratings for refs, people could tell pretty quickly if they had a shitty ref assigned, and choose to make another call instead. At least that would give teams an opt-out, and maybe just increase the overall quality as a side-effect, without excluding anything explicitly. Sunlight is the best disinfectant and all.

Esp. for the youngers

I'm not sure adult leagues, latino leagues, and club soccer leagues are apples to apples when it comes to refs. I don't know that paying more is going to improve the quality of reffing, but lack of pay is certainly a factor in the shortage of refs. (Just FYI, when I was a kid many refs were volunteers.) Maybe with more refs it might improve your odds of getting a more competent ref, but I don't see it moving the needle much. Youth soccer development sucks, youth soccer coaching sucks (for the most part), US Soccer sucks, etc. Why would the refs be any different? Bad refs are just a symptom of a greater problem with our whole American soccer culture (in particular, lack of accountability). However, I believe your odds of getting a quality ref is way higher than getting a quality coach and your usually only stuck with a bad ref for one game. If we had better coaches and different development priorities maybe we'd have less of a problem with referee abuse (yes, I realize how idealistic that sounds).

Not to get political AT ALL, and expressing no opinion on the merit of the policy, but our new immigration enforcement is going to make the supply situation worse. In particular, they've reopened the check between San Diego and San Juan Capistrano. That will make refs, even legal ones who might not want the hassle, hesitant to go through. At a minimum, Latino leagues and Sunday leagues will now be competing for the available supply of vetted referees.

 

[Grace T.]

So glad my kids club soccer career is near the home stretch. Refs today are soft. There’s a lot of games I don’t say anything and I’m totally good with how the ref calls the game, but man, high school is another level of bad especially with a 2 man ref system. Last game I was quiet all game, parents kept chirping at the ref for calls because they were losing while their team gradually became more aggressive and began fouling knowing the ref was letting them play out. Then the ref succumbed to the pressure and started making stupid offside calls that clearly weren’t because the football lines clearly who where players are in relation to each other. Then parents were chirping for contact fouls and he started giving it to them. Finally I had enough and I asked “are you making the calls or are the parents making the calls?”

I must have struck a nerve because the ref stopped the game to look who said it and addressed the crowd. I hadn’t said anything all game until that point and it was the only thing that came out of my mouth which I quoted.

Looking at this graphic, I’d be suspended for 2 games? I think it’s excessive and this chart is overkill. Sometimes refs just suck and having them out there is just slapping lipstick on a pig. There is no accountability and no oversight. So imo if USA soccer wants to implement this policy they need to start policing and continually train their own to make better versions of themselves.

If you want them to take more training you got to pay them more to motivate them to give up the uncompensated time for training. Basic market principles. You can have your refs cheap, competent or plentiful (or at least sufficient amounts)…pick 2.

 

[Grace T.]

LMFAO! I'd be willing to bet the league did nothing because they need every warm body they can find. I think refs are paid pretty well for what they do. If you're decent, you get some comments and move on. I think it's a bit like a baseball ump. As long as your strike zone sucks for both teams, right? And how the Hell are you going to get parents to ref a game when their kid is playing in it?

How much more can you pay refs? Parents in club soccer are already having to work 5-years longer than others to pay for it all.

A little different than the strike zone because of the different styles of play and because it’s a contact sport. Some teams are just more physical than the others and have different styles of play. The ages 10-14 are especially fraught because not everyone is on the same puberty curve. So a ref who is “let them play” would have a definitive impacts on the way the game plays out. From personal experience, the situation that seems to get things the most out of control is the safety stuff (when even non-trophy parents intervene) and it seems to have been behind both fights at the last surf cup.

 

[watfly]

Esp. for the youngers

Not to get political AT ALL, and expressing no opinion on the merit of the policy, but our new immigration enforcement is going to make the supply situation worse. In particular, they've reopened the check between San Diego and San Juan Capistrano. That will make refs, even legal ones who might not want the hassle, hesitant to go through. At a minimum, Latino leagues and Sunday leagues will now be competing for the available supply of vetted referees.

I could see that happening. Can bad coaches with a foreign accent be deported? Asking for a friend.

 

[TeamDadJokes]

If you want them to take more training you got to pay them more to motivate them to give up the uncompensated time for training. Basic market principles. You can have your refs cheap, competent or plentiful (or at least sufficient amounts)…pick 2.

I’ve never complained about ref fees. To be honest, I don’t think they get paid enough. We should also have rates for higher rated refs. I think if we did that and we know what level ref we’re paying for we know what to expect and can make decisions if it’s worth playing or not on any given tournament or league.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

For better or worse - tournaments, even well-known national ones, don't differentiate themselves based on perceived ref quality. We all have stories about terrible refs at any tournament we've been to, whether local or on the other side of the country. But if teams/clubs aren't choosing which tournaments to attend based on whether the refs are awesome/ok/terrible, then it's unlikely that those tournaments would ever focus on having awesome refs as a selling point. It's just not relevant.

 

[whatithink]

I always think expectations are pretty high when it comes to refs and then reality kicks you in the butt, and that's when I'm watching an EPL or Champions League game with a 4th official and VAR. So I'm pretty meh on refs for youth soccer, some good, some ok and some bad.

It also probably depends on the time of day, e.g. you have a 5PM game and the ref crew has been on the go since 8AM.

Tournaments are even worse where afaik the rates are lower but you get lots of games to compensate. Some tournaments "fly in" refs not based on quality but based on just needing bodies.

Rates that I could find for those interested!

 

[Carlsbad7]

Not to give any ideas but I'm surprised that clubs haven't made reffing 1 game per quarter or paying $100 a requirement for players.

Seems like an easy way solve the problem and it would lower costs for the club.

 

[crush]

You know when I saw some of the purest soccer? It was during Covid when the call went out to meet at a field for pickup games. Kids from all over SD county would show up to play freely. No coaches, no joysticking, maybe a dad reffing. It wasn't always pretty, but it was pure and it was fun for the kids who could play unconstrained by the arbitrary tactics and positions enforced by a coach or the ticky tacky calls of a LOTG Nazi ref. (Unfortunately, on a occasion you had some parents who still took it way too seriously). It was truly organic soccer.

I remember when the call went out to play pickup games at Cal State Fullerton in the 80s with Ced and a few other players. We had no refs to ref our games and w called like we saw it. We called our own fouls. If you called a weak beta male foul, you would get overruled very quickly. Ticky tac calls had no place at Titan gym. You play like a man or get off the court.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Not to give any ideas but I'm surprised that clubs haven't made reffing 1 game per quarter or paying $100 a requirement for players.

Seems like an easy way solve the problem and it would lower costs for the club.

It's not an infeasible solution, but the costs involved are higher than that. Anyone they would want to ref has to get a ref license, and have a ref uniform. A new ref pays ~$115 to get the initial training & license, and a bit less per year to renew. Full ref uniform at the cheapest is going to be $50. It would be cheaper to just pay the proposed fine.

Our coaches highly encourage players to become refs, as it's good for the club and good for them individually, but only a few kids take them up on the offer.

 

[Grace T.]

Not to give any ideas but I'm surprised that clubs haven't made reffing 1 game per quarter or paying $100 a requirement for players.

Seems like an easy way solve the problem and it would lower costs for the club.

The issue is there’s such a lawyer of mandatory requirements like finger printing and concussion training that the parents would revolt. It’s the ayso problem.

 

[sigmabody]

The issue is there’s such a lawyer of mandatory requirements like finger printing and concussion training that the parents would revolt. It’s the ayso problem.

Yes: this is the main problem in my perception as well. To "volunteer" to ref games for AYSO, one most attend at least one 4 hour in person training (regardless of experience or ability to just pass a test), plus around 3 hours of mandatory online courses, plus sign at least six different contracts signing away all your legal rights in ever possible circumstance, plus complete fingerprinting and a background check, plus whatever other BS they've added in the last three years since I tried to go through that process. I get the intent, but the implementation is absolutely absurd at this point. And it's just as bad for the state-wide certification.

What the leagues need to do (imho) is lower the barriers to participating and getting experience, and compromise on some of the training and legal requirements in the interest of increasing the number of people in the pipeline. Again, it's totally brain-dead simple logic: if you have a shortage of people willing to do something, you need to either pay more, or reduce the barriers to entry (or both). For some reason, US Soccer (and parents, etc.) observe the shortages and decrease in quality, but are too brain-dead stupid to correlate that with what would be necessary to fix the problem, and instead just tell parents "shut up and pretend that this shit is fine". It's not fine, and just continuing to pressure parents to shut up and accept garbage is also not fine. Fix the f-ing problem.

 

[Lee Robert]

US Soccer announced the NEW Referee Abuse Policy for 2025

Here is a glimpse of what it includes:

Ask yourself this question, why would US Soccer create a Referee Abuse Policy?

In Southern CA the decline in referees started before COVID and we are slowly recovering.



A national survey was held on those exiting and the number one reason for quitting was the irresponsible behavior by the coaches, players and spectators. Every year we train over 1000 referees and retain only 250-300.



Referees are not perfect, watch any MLS, EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, Liga, ... no argument there.

"A better term than Referee is el árbitro or arbitrator - someone appointed to decide some point at issue between opponents; one who settles disputes." Before every game I inform the coaches and captains that we have different viewpoints, and I will never say yours is wrong, but we call only what we observe.

In the past each team was required to provide a certified referee, that is no longer the case and it has greatly reduced the number of certified referees. So, the majority of our referees are "inexperienced," and they will make mistakes. I have trained 1000's of referees and it really breaks my heart to see how some of our youth referees are treated at games. All we are asking is to please give them a chance to learn and develop. Ask yourself, how you would like your son or daughter to be treated if they were refereeing?



I have done a lot of things in my life and without question, refereeing has been the most challenging and yet also the most rewarding. I have learned how to manage my emotions as well as the 22 players, coaches and spectators. It took me over 500 games to get comfortable with the people management skills necessary to referee. Refereeing is a great leadership program for our youth, they learn to make decisions; control their emotions as well as others; they learn to be respectful and call the game fairly; they learn to make mistakes and take responsibility for them and they learn self-worth and self-respect.

What US Soccer is attempting to do is minimize the sometimes harsh treatment referees receive so we can recruit and develop more referees. The amount of sanctions what will occur due to this policy will be minimal compared to the number of games that are played.

Here is the solution:
If you think you can do better, become a referee.
If you love soccer, become a referee.
If you want to get fit or stay fit, become a referee.
If you like to run, become a referee.
If you want to give back to the soccer community, become a referee.
If not, please be considerate of those that referee your games. Think how would you like to be treated if you were refereeing.

Sign up for an upcoming Referee Course, whether or not you plan on refereeing, I promise you will have a better understanding of the Laws and the role of the referee. Here is the link to start https://calsouth.com/new-referees/

I hope this helps some of you,

Lee
PS "Referees are some of the happiest people, they whistle while they work." haha

 

[Eagle33]

Indeed. For lower levels and rec leagues, I have a very high tolerance for lack of competence, and generally I am the most forgiving of ref mistakes among the parents of kids on my son's team (having been a ref for around a decade in my youth).

I have had probably an average of 2-3 games per year where I though the ref was incompetent to the point where I would file a complaint, if there was an easy way to do so. These would be things like missing easy calls repeatedly, and/or letting the game get out of control to the point where the kids were in danger of getting injured. The team plays probably 50 games a year, so that's a pretty low percentage.

I have had one game in the last 3 years where I though the ref was clearly biased and paid off to cheat for the other team (the aforementioned State Cup game, at the Legends owned facility, against the Legends team). He called a penalty against our player for a slide tackle, which he admitted to the player on the field was 100% clean after the fact, but he called the penalty for a perceived dangerous play (which, even if that was a correct call, which it was not, would have been indirect). He called another foul later when our player got pushed over from behind, blatantly... on our player. He was 100% corrupt, laughably, and not even trying to be particularly subtle about it... to the point where we all stopped getting angry, and just told the players that sometimes the refs are just dirty, and they were clearly cheated out of that game. Apparently Legends cheating is fairly well-known, though, to be fair (I learned this afterwards).

Also, to be clear, I'm not even asking for penalties against bad refs, I just want a path for parents to identify and report perceived bad refs, to mitigate some of the entirely one-sided handling by the leagues and tournaments. If there's no way to weed out bad refs over time, then parents just get more and more frustrated, which will lead to escalations. More one-sided responses will not help this ongoing and increasing problem.

You sound like a perfect candidate to start Refereeing games.

 

[Grace T.]

Yes: this is the main problem in my perception as well. To "volunteer" to ref games for AYSO, one most attend at least one 4 hour in person training (regardless of experience or ability to just pass a test), plus around 3 hours of mandatory online courses, plus sign at least six different contracts signing away all your legal rights in ever possible circumstance, plus complete fingerprinting and a background check, plus whatever other BS they've added in the last three years since I tried to go through that process. I get the intent, but the implementation is absolutely absurd at this point. And it's just as bad for the state-wide certification.

What the leagues need to do (imho) is lower the barriers to participating and getting experience, and compromise on some of the training and legal requirements in the interest of increasing the number of people in the pipeline. Again, it's totally brain-dead simple logic: if you have a shortage of people willing to do something, you need to either pay more, or reduce the barriers to entry (or both). For some reason, US Soccer (and parents, etc.) observe the shortages and decrease in quality, but are too brain-dead stupid to correlate that with what would be necessary to fix the problem, and instead just tell parents "shut up and pretend that this shit is fine". It's not fine, and just continuing to pressure parents to shut up and accept garbage is also not fine. Fix the f-ing problem.

Agree but a lot of those requirements don't come the league but from the lawyers (like the concussion thing) or do gooder government (like the fingerprint requirement). It's part of the safetyism our society has adopted.

 

[Slobodan]

People are getting worked up about nothing. Golf had ref issues addressed a long time ago. I'm pretty sure the same type of thing happens in soccer.

For those not familiar with this scene listen closely to what's said and watch what actually happens.

In fairness, he was still upset about the broken gumball machine.