Maybe, it SHOULD be all about winning...

[zanian]

Afterwards we talk about the game but mostly in general terms. My kids usually pipe up about what happened, especially if the other team was fouling too much or talking trash or there were weird calls.

I see so many majorly negative coaches, especially on the girls side and I am not sure why. They usually give a majorly negative speech at half time and after the game. The girls tend to discount it after a while. It wouldn't help to have an additional negative drive home. Your kids do have to develop a thick skin though.

The only thing I would directly criticize, which thankfully has never happened, is effort. And I am not sure if the drive home would be the place for that.

So many parents coach from the sidelines that it almost makes me laugh. Thankfully some clubs and coaches have put their foot down and told them to shut up.

 

[NorCalDad]

I agree with you 100%, but I do wonder if it actually makes a difference either way.

I look back at my son's soccer journey and I don't know that I could have done anything different that would have made him have more passion for soccer. The coaches have far more of an impact on that (unless you happen to act like Marinovich's dad), but I still think its ultimately about the kid's personality, like and dislikes. I believe to succeed at soccer at the highest levels you have to have a huge passion for the sport. This is true for all sports, but for some reason I feel like its even higher for soccer. I think some of that is attributable to the fact that in most cases you have to start the game at a younger age. As compared, to football where are lot of great players don't play until high school, or in the case of Antonio Gates and Brandon Aubrey until after college. When do you ever hear of a great pro soccer player who started the game in high school?

The no talking to kids after a game should also apply to coaches. I can't tell you how many times I've seen coaches drone on about the players performance after the final whistle. It's not productive and the kids are burnt from the game. The coaches words are going in one ear and out the other. The 24 cooling off period for parents not talking to coaches should also apply to coaches not talking to players.

Yeah I think that's my point. Trying to steer your kids will only have potential negative consequences -- like perhaps damaging your relationship with them. My attitude now is either they're into this or they're not. The only requirement we have for our kids is they have to participate in something physical. I couldn't care less what sport/activity that is. I love soccer, but I can't let my love of the game impact what their interests are. I just see so many parents repeating the mistakes I made early on. Fortunately I figured it our faster than a lot of other parents.

 

[sigmabody]

Re post game talk, I we usually talk about what his biggest takeaways were, and what I saw. I will also tell him if I thought he had a good game or not (relative to his potential), usually with a mix of good points and bad points.

I also watch "tape" with him (the team has a camera and video subscription service), and we will talk about things like positioning, movement, what plays were available, decision making, that sort of thing; things which are hard to see in the moment, and not always visible from the sideline or the field, but can more easily be seen when watching the game back. Usually I try to emphasize 2-3 things which he can try to improve on in future games (while also calling out his good points as well, of course).

I don't think my feedback has had a measurable impact on his enthusiasm, one way or another. He's not really a "passionate" soccer player, but he wants to be good at whatever he's doing, and he does make an effort to improve on the points we discuss. Being on a middle tier team also, there's not a lot of pressure to be "the best" either (from the team/club or from me), so he mostly has fun with his friends, doesn't ever get too down, and celebrates the small victories when they come. I think he'll be fine.

 

[NorCalDad]

Re post game talk, I we usually talk about what his biggest takeaways were, and what I saw. I will also tell him if I thought he had a good game or not (relative to his potential), usually with a mix of good points and bad points.

I also watch "tape" with him (the team has a camera and video subscription service), and we will talk about things like positioning, movement, what plays were available, decision making, that sort of thing; things which are hard to see in the moment, and not always visible from the sideline or the field, but can more easily be seen when watching the game back. Usually I try to emphasize 2-3 things which he can try to improve on in future games (while also calling out his good points as well, of course).

I don't think my feedback has had a measurable impact on his enthusiasm, one way or another. He's not really a "passionate" soccer player, but he wants to be good at whatever he's doing, and he does make an effort to improve on the points we discuss. Being on a middle tier team also, there's not a lot of pressure to be "the best" either (from the team/club or from me), so he mostly has fun with his friends, doesn't ever get too down, and celebrates the small victories when they come. I think he'll be fine.

How old is your player?

 

[sigmabody]

How old is your player?

He's 14 currently. We've only had video for about a year, fwiw; before that it was mainly just chatting about games on the rides home.

 

[crush]

I know a guy offering the same thing. His last name was Singer. Only cost a couple hundred grand.

This is why everyone hates college recruiting.

The middleman gets paid really nice in youth soccer and is your best friend until he starts singing to the Feds. This Singer is nothing compared to the real middleman. Just wait until you all find out who been playing us like fools.

 

[Carlsbad7]

The middleman gets paid really nice in youth soccer and is your best friend until he starts singing to the Feds. This Singer is nothing compared to the real middleman. Just wait until you all find out who been playing us like fools.

I've seen it.

College recruitment is just youth soccer corruption ratcheted up a level. The top teams probabaly have 20 players to choose from for each position. If everyone is equal "donations" can help to make things happen.

Fortunately theres many different options for players. Pro, D1/2/3, etc most countries dont have as many options. As a parent you just have to go from paying 6k per year for soccer to 10-50k per year for soccer and college.

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

$20k x 6 years at high level .... a kid could go to a pretty decent college for $120k.

While I agree with the premise of this... I will push back slightly on this that if my kid isn't doing club soccer, we aren't saving $20k a year (right now it's more like $4-5k) because he won't be sitting at home just binging on iPad 30 hours on Sat and Sun... so it would be replaced by some other activity which... would cost money.

Could I replace it with something that cost less than club soccer? Probably.
But are there A LOT of things that are club soccer replacements that cost just as much as maybe even more...? Yes.
(My nephew does golf and a friend's daughter takes piano so I know hourly rate for those are multiples of soccer at the very competitive levels...)

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

In Europe, kids begin getting paid at age 16 because the clubs are truly investing in an asset they intend to sell in the future. In the US, we pay to get "developed". The incentive isn't there to develop because at the end of the road, what is in it for the club? They focus on winning but disguise it as development so that the soccer club can continue to make a profit.

I actually think clubs/teams should focus on winning MORE here. You aren't developing a kid to sell. Coaches change constantly, kids move clubs constantly. Don't play the kid that isn't quite up for it (end of the bench) and lose games that were winnable in the name of "development". Let the kids compete. Let the ones who want to move on, move on. I think that actually helps to DEVELOP that one or two kids who is really good.

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

As the saying goes: don't hate the player, hate the game.

I'm playing this game, in part, because I want my kids to have advantages when applying to college. They are not ever going to be professional players, and I don't even have aspirations for them to play in college per se. But if making HS teams helps them get into colleges, that's a win, and we're in a position where we can help that along by paying for access to club sports. If the kids have some fun, make some friends, learn some socialization and collaboration skills along the way also, etc., then the cost and hassle will have certainly been worth it for us.

Think that's a good approach. Have fun with friends. Win some titles/tournaments. Don't have to use it to play D1 at a school you don't particularly want to go to for a 25% tuition (while still having to pay 75% tuition and 100% of boarding). But maybe you can use it to go to a good academic D3 that you want to go to and soccer is a tie breaker in your favor vs another applicant in the same boat.

 

[sigmabody]

I've seen it.

College recruitment is just youth soccer corruption ratcheted up a level. The top teams probabaly have 20 players to choose from for each position. If everyone is equal "donations" can help to make things happen.

Fortunately theres many different options for players. Pro, D1/2/3, etc most countries dont have as many options. As a parent you just have to go from paying 6k per year for soccer to 10-50k per year for soccer and college.

Following this tangent, I suspect that a lot of this has to do with two factors: unrealistic expectations, and relatively low differentiation at the high end.

For the former point, it seems like there are a lot of parents who are not really able to evaluate actual potential and/or level for their kids. To be fair, the clubs probably lie to them also; after all, they have a financial incentive to tell parents that their kids can still "make it big" (so the parents keep paying for the training to try to get there). But well over 90% of club players are not going to play past HS, and a small dose of pragmatism could be worth quite a bit of money saved for many parents.

On the latter point, for any sport, aside from a very small number of truly stand-out players, there isn't that much differentiation on the top end, and success becomes more about being in the selection pool and getting lucky, than actually being objectively better than other players in the pool. This is, I think, broadly true for all sports, most jobs, etc.: there's a threshold of capability, and beyond that it's just luck (and/or bias in the selection process). Several club coaches are even open about this (eg: "we know people at these schools..."), as a part of their sales pitch. It seems like corruption (and there's probably a lot of that), but if all the kids are effectively equally qualified, individual recommendations and/or "donations" will make the difference.

See: the silver lining of being pragmatic about your kid's abilities, and hopefully stepping off that treadmill well before getting to that point.

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

Youth sports may rarely develop a college or pro level athlete, but it will always develop a person's character.

I like that. Certainly a lot of positive life lessons to learn in youth sports.

I'll add though, sometimes (usually magnified by parents) it develops the worst traits in a person.

I still remember a 7 year old who told my kid to "F*** off!" in a scrimmage game... Gosh. I don't envy that upbringing.

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

I’ll echo random soccer fan. The top public school programs are this rigorous and the top private schools are ridiculous. At the top of the top you have boosters housing kids to get around the transfer restrictions, quarterback families paying wide receivers tuition, jobs being handed out to ringers family members, massive steroid use and red shirting players ridiculously. What goes on in soccer is nothing compared to what’s happening in top high school football.

Check out game of the week sierra canyon v oaks Christian. The amount of nil money at stake from this one game is staggering.

I have heard these elite private HS's "recruiting" basketball stars straight out of Africa. 15 year old 7 foot center from Nigeria.

 

[Socal-Soccer-Dad]

Soccer is a moment in time... Ronaldo's is almost done... Zlaten's is done... So is your son and daughter's... Focus on good grades... Punt on the "soccer thing" and take the acceptance at UCLA or Cal... Too much group think... The soccer 16–18-year-old world is a reflection of greater America nationwide- toxic.

Soccer Wire should be gauging club programs by player satisfaction surveys which will never happen. Parent satisfaction surveys even less a chance.

I'm almost ready to quit.

It was fun to dream big dreams alongside my kid. I think it's fine to dream exuberantly as a child. Part of being a child.

But time to get back to reality haha

Sometimes, it takes more courage to quit, than to keep going.

 

[Jamisfoes]

I'm almost ready to quit.

It was fun to dream big dreams alongside my kid. I think it's fine to dream exuberantly as a child. Part of being a child.

But time to get back to reality haha

Sometimes, it takes more courage to quit, than to keep going.

Sometimes all it takes is facing a player who is exceptionally good at their age to make you realize that genetic lottery is really what matters. Some kids just have everything going for them, genetic lottery, work ethic, love for the game and a bit of luck. There is no amount of private lessons and money spend on soccer could match that. And then comes puberty, there is a new lottery.

 

[sigmabody]

Sometimes all it takes is facing a player who is exceptionally good at their age to make you realize that genetic lottery is really what matters. Some kids just have everything going for them, genetic lottery, work ethic, love for the game and a bit of luck. There is no amount of private lessons and money spend on soccer could match that. And then comes puberty, there is a new lottery.

The genetic lottery isn't enough, although it might be a necessary prerequisite to play at the highest levels. That's true for every sport, though.

The timing of puberty is another good point. I've noticed that, at least at my son's club, the kids who hit puberty earlier are generally elevated to the higher tier teams, just because they are bigger, stronger, and faster (on average); not much to do with skill. The sentiment I've heard expressed is that skills can be coached, but size and raw athleticism cannot. It really distorts the distribution and placement of kids at various levels, at least between around U13 and U16 or so. It seems like it's not until around mid to late HS until you really know where you would stand, relative to other kids (ie: when almost all the kids are fully mature).

I guess, ironically, that sorta aligns with the OP's sentiment, in a sense: the club is moving the kids who mature earlier to the higher tier teams, to give them the best chance of winning now, even though it may not align with optimal individual skill development. Some parents get upset about that (ie: that size is a big factor for getting on the strongest teams), but I guess I'm more happy my son didn't start maturing too early, in that respect. That's the state of the game, though, so to speak.

 

[Offside no S]

I definitely hear this, as winning is pretty helpful in making kids and parents feel proud. Nobody wants to be on a losing team. I think the "it's about development" has 2 meanings though:

1) Kids learn SO much more than technique from soccer - they learn discipline, team work, commitment, etc. too. The training here is more valuable than the fitness, I think. Learning to lose is more important than learning to win IMO. (That said, there have to be some wins in there too.) It also takes bad pressure off the kids when winning isn't priority #1.

I think some are also referring to technique: the coach would rather teach kids the beautiful game and how to play properly over kickball and dirty moves. That takes A LOT of time and sometimes you lose a lot on that journey. If done correctly, it pays off though. Staying the course and building the foundation is a HUGE life lesson.

2) The expectation is for kids to attend and play and do their best, but the coach acknowledges that there's only a fraction of the kids who will continue to play at a high level beyond high school. They are kids who need to be kids too, and families have priorities/commitments outside of club soccer. Parents have varied commitments to the team, and kids can't control that. Soccer on the team is a big deal, but in the grand scheme of life and these kids' childhoods it's only a part of a larger picture.

There's also some families who invest time/$ in extra training and some who do not. Those who do have higher expectations than the others and those expectations need to be tempered in a way that the coach can provide with measurable variables.

I think the coach sets the tone he/she is vibing from the families when focusing on "development" over wins.

 

[Scrub It Kook]

It was fun to dream big dreams alongside my kid. I think it's fine to dream exuberantly as a child. Part of being a child.

100%.