Maybe, it SHOULD be all about winning...

[sigmabody]

Difference is this guy was not requiring payment and my son is actually qualified to play football. But otherwise its exactly the same.

Yes, college recruiting does suck.

As the saying goes: don't hate the player, hate the game.

I'm playing this game, in part, because I want my kids to have advantages when applying to college. They are not ever going to be professional players, and I don't even have aspirations for them to play in college per se. But if making HS teams helps them get into colleges, that's a win, and we're in a position where we can help that along by paying for access to club sports. If the kids have some fun, make some friends, learn some socialization and collaboration skills along the way also, etc., then the cost and hassle will have certainly been worth it for us.

 

[TheMountie]

Here's how I look at it, for whatever it's worth:

When I recap games with my kid (and I recap all of them, usually on the ride home), I focus on his performance: what he did well, what he could improve on, things I saw, things he saw, etc. I've told him consistently: I don't really care how the team performed; I only care how he performed. The team success is for him to enjoy with his teammates, as it comes; his job is just to do the best he can, though, and improve.

Winning is a side effect of ability, but it's dependent on a lot of factors. Teams can always "play down" and win more, but that's not good for getting better, and will limit personal improvement. I'd rather have my kid get better and the team lose, than the other way around, because that increases the chances of his team winning more later. He won't always be on the same teams (and playing the same opponents), but he'll always have the same ability.

That said, I'm also not on the "high end" track, driving several hours every weekend to chase a dream of playing beyond HS. If my kid can leverage some sports ability (soccer or otherwise) to get a leg up for college, that's great, but we're certainly at the "also enjoy your time playing, and don't let it become miserable" level of competition. I just want the teams to be close in ability, the kids to have fun, and maybe get a little better each game. There are benefits to sports participation beyond winning, and some winning (and losing) will come naturally if you're playing competitive teams... and that's how it should be.

That's my 2c, anyway.

Very spot on, and it’s almost identical to how I handle my son. We do a recap on the ride home where I first ask how he felt he did, and then I chime in with something he could have done better but I also make sure to praise the things he did well.

Since he’s used to playing on top teams, he gets a bit discouraged now that I moved him from the Letter League to a Flight 1 team so he can get more playing time. He was used to winning, but just like you mentioned with your kid, I explain that it’s about his individual performance, not just the team’s outcome. That’s where he tends to focus too much.

He’s on the shorter side and hasn’t had his growth spurt yet, which is why coaches on top teams often prioritize size and speed over technical ability. I also review our team game recordings with him, luckily, I have a background in editing, so we can really break down each game during film sessions.

In a stroke of luck, he’ll actually benefit next season when the grade-year cutoff takes effect. Since he’s September-born, he’ll then be one of the oldest and more experienced players, which will make it easier for him to make almost any top team. We’re definitely excited about that.

This season may feel like a wash playing on a weaker team, but it’s valuable for building good habits and solid individual performances, regardless of the final score.

 

[socalkdg]

$20k x 6 years at high level .... a kid could go to a pretty decent college for $120k.

First 4 years of soccer was 1K per year. Next 4 years was 2-3K per year and that included separate keeper training. Who is spending 20K per year.

 

[watfly]

As the saying goes: don't hate the player, hate the game.

I'm playing this game, in part, because I want my kids to have advantages when applying to college. They are not ever going to be professional players, and I don't even have aspirations for them to play in college per se. But if making HS teams helps them get into colleges, that's a win, and we're in a position where we can help that along by paying for access to club sports. If the kids have some fun, make some friends, learn some socialization and collaboration skills along the way also, etc., then the cost and hassle will have certainly been worth it for us.

Youth sports may rarely develop a college or pro level athlete, but it will always develop a person's character.

 

[sigmabody]

First 4 years of soccer was 1K per year. Next 4 years was 2-3K per year and that included separate keeper training. Who is spending 20K per year.

I'm not spending $20k/yr, but I am spending ~$7k/yr, including travel expenses. There is a AYSO United team locally which we considered, which would be ~$3k/yr total, but playing at a lower level. My impression is that most clubs (at least on the west side of LA) are in the ~$4-5k range for dues, uniforms, and expected expenses, and that's not a letter league team (or a particularly "prestigious" club).

 

[sigmabody]

This season may feel like a wash playing on a weaker team, but it’s valuable for building good habits and solid individual performances, regardless of the final score.

Yes, also agree with this. This is also why I feel like my son gets good value from guesting regularly on the lower level team in his club: in addition to getting extra game-time touches, he's hopefully building good habits, and getting more experience in a de facto leadership role.

I personally do not mind him being a weaker player on a better, or struggling at their level, team either. As another saying goes (which I've told him explicitly): if you look around and you're the strongest player in the gym, it's time to find a new gym. Being challenged is how kids get better, and as long as the competition is close, that's good imho.

 

[KingMI]

First 4 years of soccer was 1K per year. Next 4 years was 2-3K per year and that included separate keeper training. Who is spending 20K per year.

I did last year draggin the family of 5 around the country.

 

[Messi>CR7]

Youth sports may rarely develop a college or pro level athlete, but it will always develop a person's character.

Between soccer and studying, my boy hardly has any time left. Among his friends who don't play sports, some play video game all day, and some get into stupid troubles that I don't care to mention.

When my girl was younger, I thought the idea of DA was great. Four practices a week and she won't have time left for boys. It didn't quite work out that way with her, lol, but at least for now my boy is staying out of trouble.

 

[Jamisfoes]

Another example would be to play the same 9 top kids in a 9v9 match and give limited to no playtime to anybody else. It could/would lead to the team winning the most matches. But it wouldn't be helping anyone else on the team, and it's probably not great training for everyone to play 100% either.

In this era when every club has a mls next team ( shhh…it’s actually mls next 2/AD), it’s not wise to give any minutes to your bench. You play your best 9 kids and hopefully they are happy and will sign with you again next season. It’s very easy to find another mls next team if you are a halfway decent player and not happy. I don’t even feel bad for the bench players. It’s easy for them to find another ecnl/ mls next team after the season.

 

[sigmabody]

Between soccer and studying, my boy hardly has any time left. Among his friends who don't play sports, some play video game all day, and some get into stupid troubles that I don't care to mention.

When my girl was younger, I thought the idea of DA was great. Four practices a week and she won't have time left for boys. It didn't quite work out that way with her, lol, but at least for now my boy is staying out of trouble.

The silver lining about my kid not being "elite" is that we only have 2-3 practices a week, and only a handful on tournaments over the course of the year. This leaves time, in my case, for my son to try to do multiple sports (although currently only one at the club level). Some of the higher level teams practice more, and do far more tournaments and events (with some teams also going to events in Europe, etc.).

My son still has time for 6+ hours of video games a day most weekends (and a few hours on weekdays), though, so I'm not too worried about impeding on his social life (such as it is). He may need to curtail his video game time if he ever gets into a relationship, but given his track record so far and his very marginally social parental influences, that isn't tracking to be a huge concern in the near term.

 

[watfly]

Between soccer and studying, my boy hardly has any time left. Among his friends who don't play sports, some play video game all day, and some get into stupid troubles that I don't care to mention.

Football is less of a commitment, particularly on weekends, and provides far better college opportunities, although the injury concerns are no joke. His football coach is far more considerate of homework and personal commitments than his club soccer coaches ever were (although I suspect that is probably not the case for the big HS football programs). The biggest issue is that club soccer is a effectively a year round sport. I find the arrogance of soccer directors and coaches funny, as we've not accomplished a damn thing in soccer. Why are 4 day a week practices and two game days on weekends (nearly 11 months out of the year) necessary? Breaks and cross training would be far more effective.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Football is less of a commitment, particularly on weekends, and provides far better college opportunities, although the injury concerns are no joke. His football coach is far more considerate of homework and personal commitments than his club soccer coaches ever were (although I suspect that is probably not the case for the big HS football programs).

Oof - we haven't found this to match our experience. Football is all-encompassing, 6 days a week in season, with almost no free time to do anything else. Off-season it is still a 5 day a week expectation for weight training and other practice, and they are busy all summer. Couple that with 4 or more AP classes, and I'm amazed the kid has enough time to eat, let alone sleep. He can still play school soccer - as it's one of the permitted activities that he can be doing other than going to the "pretty-much-required" weight training. But I don't see how it's physically possible to stay on a club soccer team as well as a decent high school football program.

 

[Grace T.]

Oof - we haven't found this to match our experience. Football is all-encompassing, 6 days a week in season, with almost no free time to do anything else. Off-season it is still a 5 day a week expectation for weight training and other practice, and they are busy all summer. Couple that with 4 or more AP classes, and I'm amazed the kid has enough time to eat, let alone sleep. He can still play school soccer - as it's one of the permitted activities that he can be doing other than going to the "pretty-much-required" weight training. But I don't see how it's physically possible to stay on a club soccer team as well as a decent high school football program.

Football is less of a commitment, particularly on weekends, and provides far better college opportunities, although the injury concerns are no joke. His football coach is far more considerate of homework and personal commitments than his club soccer coaches ever were (although I suspect that is probably not the case for the big HS football programs). The biggest issue is that club soccer is a effectively a year round sport. I find the arrogance of soccer directors and coaches funny, as we've not accomplished a damn thing in soccer. Why are 4 day a week practices and two game days on weekends (nearly 11 months out of the year) necessary? Breaks and cross training would be far more effective.

I’ll echo random soccer fan. The top public school programs are this rigorous and the top private schools are ridiculous. At the top of the top you have boosters housing kids to get around the transfer restrictions, quarterback families paying wide receivers tuition, jobs being handed out to ringers family members, massive steroid use and red shirting players ridiculously. What goes on in soccer is nothing compared to what’s happening in top high school football.

Check out game of the week sierra canyon v oaks Christian. The amount of nil money at stake from this one game is staggering.

 

[watfly]

Oof - we haven't found this to match our experience. Football is all-encompassing, 6 days a week in season, with almost no free time to do anything else. Off-season it is still a 5 day a week expectation for weight training and other practice, and they are busy all summer. Couple that with 4 or more AP classes, and I'm amazed the kid has enough time to eat, let alone sleep. He can still play school soccer - as it's one of the permitted activities that he can be doing other than going to the "pretty-much-required" weight training. But I don't see how it's physically possible to stay on a club soccer team as well as a decent high school football program.

Must be why our football team sucks!

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Must be why our football team sucks!

They have been state champs quite a few times in the past, but COVID did a number on the program, and they've been rebuilding for a little while. Same (very good) coach for 25+ years, who is used to running a winning program, regardless of the record now (though it wasn't bad last year, and should be even better this year).

 

[watfly]

I’ll echo random soccer fan. The top public school programs are this rigorous and the top private schools are ridiculous. At the top of the top you have boosters housing kids to get around the transfer restrictions, quarterback families paying wide receivers tuition, jobs being handed out to ringers family members, massive steroid use and red shirting players ridiculously. What goes on in soccer is nothing compared to what’s happening in top high school football.

Check out game of the week sierra canyon v oaks Christian. The amount of nil money at stake from this one game is staggering.

This is very true at the most elite levels of HS football, less so for SD (maybe a handful of teams) but very extreme in LA/OC. Endless shenanigans in the Trinity League, ironically. Just claim your homeless and you can play for any school you choose.

 

[JeterwastheBEST]

Soccer is a moment in time... Ronaldo's is almost done... Zlaten's is done... So is your son and daughter's... Focus on good grades... Punt on the "soccer thing" and take the acceptance at UCLA or Cal... Too much group think... The soccer 16–18-year-old world is a reflection of greater America nationwide- toxic.

Soccer Wire should be gauging club programs by player satisfaction surveys which will never happen. Parent satisfaction surveys even less a chance.

 

[JeterwastheBEST]

Yes, maybe Ukrainskiiii will defeat Russia and I will win Powerball....

 

[NorCalDad]

Very spot on, and it’s almost identical to how I handle my son. We do a recap on the ride home where I first ask how he felt he did, and then I chime in with something he could have done better but I also make sure to praise the things he did well.

Do you guys have younger players? I used to talk to my kids after their games, but I've generally come to the conclusion that's a bad practice. The sooner the kid feels like this is their own thing, the better off everyone will be. Regardless of the results or how my kid played, probably the first thing I ask is "Want to get something to eat?". If they want to talk about the game, I let them drive that conversation -- and just listen and give feedback when they ask for it. I might say something to the effect "It was fun watching you play". For what it's worth, my kids play on 1st teams in letter leagues.

There are so many things I wish I would of known when my kids were younger.

 

[watfly]

Do you guys have younger players? I used to talk to my kids after their games, but I've generally come to the conclusion that's a bad practice. The sooner the kid feels like this is their own thing, the better off everyone will be. Regardless of the results or how my kid played, probably the first thing I ask is "Want to get something to eat?". If they want to talk about the game, I let them drive that conversation -- and just listen and give feedback when they ask for it. I might say something to the effect "It was fun watching you play". For what it's worth, my kids play on 1st teams in letter leagues.

There are so many things I wish I would of known when my kids were younger.

I agree with you 100%, but I do wonder if it actually makes a difference either way.

I look back at my son's soccer journey and I don't know that I could have done anything different that would have made him have more passion for soccer. The coaches have far more of an impact on that (unless you happen to act like Marinovich's dad), but I still think its ultimately about the kid's personality, like and dislikes. I believe to succeed at soccer at the highest levels you have to have a huge passion for the sport. This is true for all sports, but for some reason I feel like its even higher for soccer. I think some of that is attributable to the fact that in most cases you have to start the game at a younger age. As compared, to football where are lot of great players don't play until high school, or in the case of Antonio Gates and Brandon Aubrey until after college. When do you ever hear of a great pro soccer player who started the game in high school?

The no talking to kids after a game should also apply to coaches. I can't tell you how many times I've seen coaches drone on about the players performance after the final whistle. It's not productive and the kids are burnt from the game. The coaches words are going in one ear and out the other. The 24 cooling off period for parents not talking to coaches should also apply to coaches not talking to players.

 

[Carlsbad7]

I agree with you 100%, but I do wonder if it actually makes a difference either way.

I look back at my son's soccer journey and I don't know that I could have done anything different that would have made him have more passion for soccer. The coaches have far more of an impact on that (unless you happen to act like Marinovich's dad), but I still think its ultimately about the kid's personality, like and dislikes. I believe to succeed at soccer at the highest levels you have to have a huge passion for the sport. This is true for all sports, but for some reason I feel like its even higher for soccer. I think some of that is attributable to the fact that in most cases you have to start the game at a younger age. As compared, to football where are lot of great players don't play until high school, or in the case of Antonio Gates and Brandon Aubrey until after college. When do you ever hear of a great pro soccer player who started the game in high school?

The no talking to kids after a game should also apply to coaches. I can't tell you how many times I've seen coaches drone on about the players performance after the final whistle. It's not productive and the kids are burnt from the game. The coaches words are going in one ear and out the other. The 24 cooling off period for parents not talking to coaches should also apply to coaches not talking to players.

When they're younger you can bribe with $$$ for goals and pressure by making your voice heard from the sidelines.

When they''re older pressuring and bribes don't really work. Players have to want to play internally. They have to love the challenge, pressuring themselves to be successful.

This is why coaches are told not to joystick players. Its not that it doesnt work (it can). But as players get older the drive to play/compete needs to come from them.

Olders coaches and college coaces dont want projects they want known products that have the training and background nessessary to be interchangeable on the field. Sometimes one combination of players will work and other times a different combo will work.