I noticed not even a Pandemic could take down Pay to Play...

[SFR]

-continue -> The point is that at the older age it will get harder to find a new team that matches your level of play. The roster is set to certain number and usually teams have only a few spots on the roster (at most). So skipping a season or going to play for a lower level never works out (with a few exceptions). And I don't think our club is offering spots on the team to players whose parents can afford. Anyway, I am willing to pay $$$ even it's a little bit to much as long as my son wants to play and doing fine (read not seat at the bench).
BTW, I see a lot things that I wish club and youth soccer in general would do different from what and how they doing now.

 

[SoccerEnvy]

I’ve never understood the argument against “pay to play” soccer. I understand theoretically of course. We want to train the best soccer players regardless of their families ability to pay. However, in this scenario who is funding youth soccer?
government? MLS? Corporate entities? The reality is there is no other source of funding and when you consider that players and their families do get a certain amount of control over their soccer experience then it is perhaps the best option in the end.
Also, we continue to pay our children’s soccer fees because we have deep respect for their coaches and value the time and effort they are putting into training our kids during this pandemic. It is the only time our kids get to go out of the house and socialize with a group of kids.

 

[SoccerFan4Life]

I’ve never understood the argument against “pay to play” soccer. I understand theoretically of course. We want to train the best soccer players regardless of their families ability to pay. However, in this scenario who is funding youth soccer?
government? MLS? Corporate entities? The reality is there is no other source of funding

It’s simple, if your kid is a good player and you have the money, you can pay a lot to get them into ECNL. Those that don’t have the money, cannot play.
In other countries, your money won’t get your kid in the best program. Talent is the most important requirement to make the academies.

The abuse of pay to play is ridiculous. There should only be a couple of academies per region. Here we have ECNL, ECRL, DA, and all other made up programs that promote themselves as a way to get recruited but you need to pay $3k to $4k.
Meanwhile some of the excellent players are doing high school soccer and local club soccer with minimal exposure to college scouts or professional soccer teams.
I do agree that there needs to be some fees but $350 a month to play “elite soccer” ?

 

[46n2]

Tough (Boring) topic that comes around every month. I can afford it so I will pay for it, simple. And theres alot of people in this situation. Also there are alot of kids that are straight ballers and they get a break or don't even pay at all, Id say that any of the top teams in the area have a kid or two that don't pay the full amount or any amount at all....And I fine with that too.
We're parents on a soccer forum, we're all little over the top be honest, and yes we're all grasping onto hope.
Girls SW schedule is released, but will it happen ??

 

[dad4]

Your idea is that if clubs can't provide regular practices and there are no games then the fee they charge is not justifiable. I am curios what you expect from clubs, reduce the fee by some 50%? At 1st, it sounds reasonable. But, it's not that simple. If your kids play competitive soccer like NPL, ECNL, MLS elite then clubs probably have high paid coaches for those teams. How do you see your clubs keeping those coaches but don't charge you? I understand it's very expensive to be on MLS academy that is not affiliated with an MLS team and it's not fair as real academy players don't pay. But there is no other model. Somebody has to pay $$$ for fields, good coaches, travel, and etc... My son (u-16) is on one of those non-MLS academy teams and he is working very hard and loves playing soccer and every one on his team is the same. And if I tell my son let's skip this year with academy as the cost in my view is not justifiable then it will be more devastating for him then juts having these cripple practices and hope that the real season will start sooner than later. So, as long as I can afford I will pay that money. By the way, our club is trying to do everything it can to keep the players. Of course, anything they do can't replace the real practices and competitions. And, also, I understand if we decide to skip one year it will be always impossible to get on the the team next year as nobody will keep the spot for us.

Most clubs understand if someone is out of work and tight for cash right now. If it is a problem, you should ask what they can do.

I’ve never understood the argument against “pay to play” soccer. I understand theoretically of course. We want to train the best soccer players regardless of their families ability to pay. However, in this scenario who is funding youth soccer?
government? MLS? Corporate entities? The reality is there is no other source of funding and when you consider that players and their families do get a certain amount of control over their soccer experience then it is perhaps the best option in the end.
Also, we continue to pay our children’s soccer fees because we have deep respect for their coaches and value the time and effort they are putting into training our kids during this pandemic. It is the only time our kids get to go out of the house and socialize with a group of kids.

Not everyone is in a letter league for expert coaching.

For some kids, it's a network effect question. They play elite level soccer because that's where their peers are. Any system which sorts by ability would be fine.

 

[paytoplay]

We’re seeing extreme pay-to-play during Covid: No recreational or AYSO, those kids are taking a break; same with many club teams, especially lower flights and leagues, no season yet for SCDSL, etc, while Academy and ECNL have theirs; meanwhile, wealthier clubs are traveling out of state to play. If you got the money, you got more of an advantage now.

 

[timbuck]

We’re seeing extreme pay-to-play during Covid: No recreational or AYSO, those kids are taking a break; same with many club teams, especially lower flights and leagues, no season yet for SCDSL, etc, while Academy and ECNL have theirs; meanwhile, wealthier clubs are traveling out of state to play. If you got the money, you got more of an advantage now.

Pay to play has gotten a little worse.
Sure - some non "elite" (ECNL, DA, etc) would travel for a tournament once in a while. But now you have 3rd teams travelling to play tournaments 6.5 hours away. Taking time off of school to travel to AZ or UT. Or you have HS aged players travelling but no college scouts around.
We should be getting back to more localized play. I'll stay out of the political side of things - But no way should anyone be travelling more than an hour just to play a soccer game right now.

Imagine you just drove 6+ hours and your kid gets a fever on the car ride. If you tell your team - the team probably has to forfeit all games.

 

[Eagle33]

We’re seeing extreme pay-to-play during Covid: No recreational or AYSO, those kids are taking a break; same with many club teams, especially lower flights and leagues, no season yet for SCDSL, etc, while Academy and ECNL have theirs; meanwhile, wealthier clubs are traveling out of state to play. If you got the money, you got more of an advantage now.

My understanding that many AYSO regions were given Green light to start training.

 

[SFR]

It’s simple, if your kid is a good player and you have the money, you can pay a lot to get them into ECNL. Those that don’t have the money, cannot play.
In other countries, your money won’t get your kid in the best program. Talent is the most important requirement to make the academies.

The abuse of pay to play is ridiculous. There should only be a couple of academies per region. Here we have ECNL, ECRL, DA, and all other made up programs that promote themselves as a way to get recruited but you need to pay $3k to $4k.
Meanwhile some of the excellent players are doing high school soccer and local club soccer with minimal exposure to college scouts or professional soccer teams.
I do agree that there needs to be some fees but $350 a month to play “elite soccer” ?

I do not agree with you on a few of your points. And I agree that it's a big burden for those parents who just can't afford to pay those high fees. Every club has a system of helping those who can't afford to pay full fees. Through all the tryouts I have been with my kids nobody asked me upfront if I can pay or not. We got an offer from a club for a specific team and then if you want to register but can't pay as mush as club charges you can file for a financial assistance. As for "couple of academies per region". Maximum number on the roster is 24-26 players. How many players that didn't make that academy have same skills as those that were selected? So, those ECNL, DA like programs will give them chance to play on high level but it's not going to be free. As someone mentioned here and I totally agree that if government or corporate world don't subsidize youth soccer then how you see youth soccer will strive? So, for those clubs that want to compete and play against ECNL, academies it's a big expense to hire good quality coaches (big debate could be here) and be qualified with all those league requirements. At the end, someone has to pay for it.

 

[paytoplay]

Pay to play has gotten a little worse.
Sure - some non "elite" (ECNL, DA, etc) would travel for a tournament once in a while. But now you have 3rd teams travelling to play tournaments 6.5 hours away. Taking time off of school to travel to AZ or UT. Or you have HS aged players travelling but no college scouts around.
We should be getting back to more localized play. I'll stay out of the political side of things - But no way should anyone be travelling more than an hour just to play a soccer game right now.

Imagine you just drove 6+ hours and your kid gets a fever on the car ride. If you tell your team - the team probably has to forfeit all games.

So Cal 3rd teams driving to UT to play other So Cal teams, an activity that is banned here.

 

[SFR]

So Cal 3rd teams driving to UT to play other So Cal teams, an activity that is banned here.

So, the question here if it makes scene for any level team to travel outside of state to play game when there are no real practices are happening due the current circumstances. Just the technical point here that if you threw a player without proper conditioning on the field and start screaming run, attack, shot you get lot's of injuries and the output of the game will be probably not god. But you will have a lot of time to cool of on the way back.

 

[46n2]

I do not agree with you on a few of your points. And I agree that it's a big burden for those parents who just can't afford to pay those high fees. Every club has a system of helping those who can't afford to pay full fees. Through all the tryouts I have been with my kids nobody asked me upfront if I can pay or not. We got an offer from a club for a specific team and then if you want to register but can't pay as mush as club charges you can file for a financial assistance. As for "couple of academies per region". Maximum number on the roster is 24-26 players. How many players that didn't make that academy have same skills as those that were selected? So, those ECNL, DA like programs will give them chance to play on high level but it's not going to be free. As someone mentioned here and I totally agree that if government or corporate world don't subsidize youth soccer then how you see youth soccer will strive? So, for those clubs that want to compete and play against ECNL, academies it's a big expense to hire good quality coaches (big debate could be here) and be qualified with all those league requirements. At the end, someone has to pay for it.

Awesome , everyone has different opinions and I respect yours 100%.

No one will ever ask you if you can afford the team fee's thats correct.

BUT Going to your skill question.......if your kid truly has it, they'll make it work--TRUST ME.

Never ever have I seen a coach turn down a kid that has skill and is a true GOAT.
A coach know his team and what he needs.
A parent thinks their lil jimmy or suzy is the next MBappe.
Kid trying out doesn't make it , cause he truly isn't skilled, he may be fast but his touch is off, they may be able to dribble but never ever look up, has a great right foot , but can't use their left if their life depends on it.....blah blah blah.
Personally tryouts are for rookies, call the coach and ask to practice with the team.

the reason their are levels to this game, is because their levels of skill out their, period. DA teams should beat a CSL team, right?

Some kids got it, others are natural athletes but don't check all the boxes, Speed, skill, IQ, Stanima, Technique, Touch, etc......

What ruins the system really is parents , they THINK their kids are better than they really are, they never let the kids develop, because every year they jump from team to team, looking for a starting spot because lil suzy deserves it because she can juggle 100x in a row.

GTFOOH.

And for the club paying for good coaches, yes I agree someone has to pay for it and thats me, cause I like what Im getting and so does my offsprings.

 

[Giesbock]

My understanding that many AYSO regions were given Green light to start training.

I believe Tustin AYSO is training under careful guidelines..

 

[kickingandscreaming]

No one will ever ask you if you can afford the team fee's thats correct.

BUT Going to your skill question.......if your kid truly has it, they'll make it work--TRUST ME.

Never ever have I seen a coach turn down a kid that has skill and is a true GOAT.

This has been my experience as well. The player didn't have to be the best on the team, either - just one that earned the right to be there with their play.

 

[futboldad1]

Awesome , everyone has different opinions and I respect yours 100%.

No one will ever ask you if you can afford the team fee's thats correct.

BUT Going to your skill question.......if your kid truly has it, they'll make it work--TRUST ME.

Never ever have I seen a coach turn down a kid that has skill and is a true GOAT.
A coach know his team and what he needs.
A parent thinks their lil jimmy or suzy is the next MBappe.
Kid trying out doesn't make it , cause he truly isn't skilled, he may be fast but his touch is off, they may be able to dribble but never ever look up, has a great right foot , but can't use their left if their life depends on it.....blah blah blah.
Personally tryouts are for rookies, call the coach and ask to practice with the team.

the reason their are levels to this game, is because their levels of skill out their, period. DA teams should beat a CSL team, right?

Some kids got it, others are natural athletes but don't check all the boxes, Speed, skill, IQ, Stanima, Technique, Touch, etc......

What ruins the system really is parents , they THINK their kids are better than they really are, they never let the kids develop, because every year they jump from team to team, looking for a starting spot because lil suzy deserves it because she can juggle 100x in a row.

GTFOOH.

And for the club paying for good coaches, yes I agree someone has to pay for it and thats me, cause I like what Im getting and so does my offsprings.

Great posting! I will say even kids who are talented are not enough to be kept on strong rosters when the parents are total a$$holes..... you know the types the ones who are so crazy they end up ruining their kids motivation....... my DD has told me some stories over the years about kids affected by this...... its often some of the quiet dads who turn into bullies and when the car door shuts...... sad but what can you do other than raise your own kid right by gently teaching them about accountability and supporting their team through thick and thin........

 

[SoccerFan4Life]

I do not agree with you on a few of your points. And I agree that it's a big burden for those parents who just can't afford to pay those high fees. Every club has a system of helping those who can't afford to pay full fees. As for "couple of academies per region". Maximum number on the roster is 24-26 players. How many players that didn't make that academy have same skills as those that were selected? So, those ECNL, DA like programs will give them chance to play on high level but it's not going to be free. As someone mentioned here and I totally agree that if government or corporate world don't subsidize youth soccer then how you see youth soccer will strive? So,

I've heard from several ECNL coaches that the Great Park of Irvine is a great spot to hold practices because most of the kids with money are located in South OC. One thing is the fee and the other the travel cost. Not too many parents have the finances to take their kids to play in Utah, Las Vegas, AZ, every other weekend. Then you add trips to the East Coast in the summer.

Why not keep the best players at Flight 1 and have them play against each other every weekend locally. You can have an All Star team that gets to practice every other week and they get to travel in the summer for a couple of tournaments.

Alex Morgan says pay-to-play is hurting soccer in the US. Is she right?

The USA striker thinks the model for young players in America is broken. But figures such as MLS commissioner Don Garber disagree

www.theguardian.com

The above article has some really good information to make this point of pay to play.

1 A recent survey claimed young players from households earning less than $25,000 a year amounted to just 11% of boys and girls in registered clubs, compared to 35% in households bringing in over $100,000.

 

[SFR]

Awesome , everyone has different opinions and I respect yours 100%.

No one will ever ask you if you can afford the team fee's thats correct.

BUT Going to your skill question.......if your kid truly has it, they'll make it work--TRUST ME.
......

What ruins the system really is parents , they THINK their kids are better than they really are, they never let the kids develop, because every year they jump from team to team, looking for a starting spot because lil suzy deserves it because she can juggle 100x in a row.
------

If you ask me It looks like we are on the same page.
From your post you're mostly talking about what coaches are looking in players when they need to assemble or add a few more players. And you are correct it's not just how fast you can run 100 meters or if you can juggle gazillion times. To me it's an art to figure out a player and see the hidden potentials and decide which player will benefit your team the most. And, yes, for high level team you need to invite a player to practice with a team for some time, which is how it works with ECNL and DA like teams.
___________
I wouldn't be so negative about parents ruing soccer. I understand your frustration with parents you described but it's usually one or two on the team, which could make very unpleasant experience for everyone players and parents. But I would blame the coach of not handling this situation. I believe a good coach should and could work with parents. If coach explains parents what he/she is doing and what he/she is looking for an example from participating a certain tournament. I think it would help to calm down most of the parents. Obviously, there is always someone who just can't be managed but then club should step in and help coach to deal with the parent.
Personally, I got very upset when I hear from coaches saying that parents shouldn't be involved in their kids development. And I even herd comments saying parents shouldn't be allowed to come and watch games as they misdirect their kids.
_________________
And, yes, I am paying for my kid to be on high level team as I trust that our club is honestly trying to provide good quality in devolving our kids to learn playing soccer as well as other aspects of their life.

 

[paytoplay]

I’ve never understood the argument against “pay to play” soccer. I understand theoretically of course. We want to train the best soccer players regardless of their families ability to pay. However, in this scenario who is funding youth soccer?
government? MLS? Corporate entities? The reality is there is no other source of funding and when you consider that players and their families do get a certain amount of control over their soccer experience then it is perhaps the best option in the end.
Also, we continue to pay our children’s soccer fees because we have deep respect for their coaches and value the time and effort they are putting into training our kids during this pandemic. It is the only time our kids get to go out of the house and socialize with a group of kids.

A good argument against pay to play is there’s a lot of talented kids that fall through the cracks because their family doesn’t have the wealth or flexibility with work to support their joining a travel team. In OC you have a lot of potential athletes that start out in rec soccer and drop out. Yeah, some are recruited and get a free ride via scholarships. But most, absolutely not. Meanwhile, on the other side of the street, little Mia goes straight to the baby Blues, pays for years of private training, has the family support and a head start to see whether she’s got enough talent to stay with the rest of the girls. The girl with two seasons of rec dropped out to do something else because she was not developed to the point where her potential could be seen. She missed out. The competition missed out on facing her. The National teams ultimately missed out.

 

[Eagle33]

A good argument against pay to play is there’s a lot of talented kids that fall through the cracks because their family doesn’t have the wealth or flexibility with work to support their joining a travel team. In OC you have a lot of potential athletes that start out in rec soccer and drop out. Yeah, some are recruited and get a free ride via scholarships. But most, absolutely not. Meanwhile, on the other side of the street, little Mia goes straight to the baby Blues, pays for years of private training, has the family support and a head start to see whether she’s got enough talent to stay with the rest of the girls. The girl with two seasons of rec dropped out to do something else because she was not developed to the point where her potential could be seen. She missed out. The competition missed out on facing her. The National teams ultimately missed out.

That's just a case of "what if" and nothing else. Players who want to play don't quit.

 

[dad4]

That's just a case of "what if" and nothing else. Players who want to play don't quit.

Yeah, yeah. I'll remember to give 110% and win one for the Gipper, too. After all, there is no "I" in team. Besides, good defense always beats good offense, and vice versa.

Are we done with sports platitudes and ready to return to the real world? The world where dinner costs money, you need a car to drive places, and homework has to get done?