How will this affect womens sports in college?

I didn’t say “it doesn’t matter.” I said it’s not a threat to ruin college sports.
I’ve also said the high school rules regarding it need to be examined and ncaa rules need to be reviewed to make sure it’s governed well.

it absolutely matters. I just don’t think it’s frequent enough to be labeled as the downfall of college sports.

and there have been women competing in ncaa sports for years who were born with both parts but their parents selected them to be women. Yet there are clear signs that they retained a lot of male features and attributes. For those cases only the coaching staff and athletic trainers are in the know and there are no hormone or other metrics those women had to meet. Yet they certainly had physical advantages and received scholarships and playing time and opportunities ahead of 100% genetic women. I know of 3 and the coaches and trainers handled it with the utmost sensitivity and care for the young women who obviously had a lot to juggle within themselves. I’m sure there are others.

All this to say this has been going on for years and college sports hasn’t been ruined.
 
full90 said:
I just don’t think it’s frequent enough to be labeled as the downfall of college sports.
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Ok the label the person used to start the thread is off....ie ruin or the downfall of sports. It wont ruin the entire sport. It will however affect those women athletes that lose to men who now compete against them.

So we are stuck with this.

If a guy wants to play on the women's team, the college will say no, this is a women's team. But when that guy says hey I identify as a women...now we are supposed to go...OH OK well why didn't you say that. In that case you are in!

It is ridiculous some people think this is OK.

It is as ridiculous as me (a white guy) suddenly declaring I am black and applying for minority loans, hoping to get grants set aside for minorities, and so on. People would rightly tell me dude go home you are white. But in regards to sex we are supposed to pretend for sports a guy who dresses up as a chick can play women's sports?

Common sense in both of the above scenarios say NO.
 
Desert Hound said:
Ok the label the person used to start the thread is off....ie ruin or the downfall of sports. It wont ruin the entire sport. It will however affect those women athletes that lose to men who now compete against them.

So we are stuck with this.

If a guy wants to play on the women's team, the college will say no, this is a women's team. But when that guy says hey I identify as a women...now we are supposed to go...OH OK well why didn't you say that. In that case you are in!

It is ridiculous some people think this is OK.

It is as ridiculous as me (a white guy) suddenly declaring I am black and applying for minority loans, hoping to get grants set aside for minorities, and so on. People would rightly tell me dude go home you are white. But in regards to sex we are supposed to pretend for sports a guy who dresses up as a chick can play women's sports?

Common sense in both of the above scenarios say NO.
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There have been and will be ZERO INSTANCES where a man realizes that he won’t excel or advance in his chosen sport at his talent/ability level and then decides “I know! I’ll become a woman in order to make the team/get a scholarship/win the title”
That has not nor will ever happen. To reduce these people’s choices down to a sports advantage is so ignorant and asinine.
I don’t even think they should be allowed to compete with women without serious governance and even I can empathize with the difficult lives and inner battles they face. Have some humanity. If it was your kid you’d hope for some empathy and compassion.
 
full90 said:
There have been and will be ZERO INSTANCES where a man realizes that he won’t excel or advance in his chosen sport at his talent/ability level and then decides “I know! I’ll become a woman in order to make the team/get a scholarship/win the title”
That has not nor will ever happen. To reduce these people’s choices down to a sports advantage is so ignorant and asinine.
I don’t even think they should be allowed to compete with women without serious governance and even I can empathize with the difficult lives and inner battles they face. Have some humanity. If it was your kid you’d hope for some empathy and compassion.
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Is anyone accusing anyone of faking trans status? I agree it isn’t an issue. Nor is it a question of the end of all women’s sport.

There is an issue, for certain events in certain states, with women being relegated to second tier status in their own sport.

And, so far, no one* here on the left has been willing to talk about the girls who spend 5 years training in a sport, only to find out that the top one or two slots are occupied by boys.

*Except EOTL. He wants to insult any girls in that situation.
 
dad4 said:
Is anyone accusing anyone of faking trans status? I agree it isn’t an issue. Nor is it a question of the end of all women’s sport.

There is an issue, for certain events in certain states, with women being relegated to second tier status in their own sport.

And, so far, no one* here on the left has been willing to talk about the girls who spend 5 years training in a sport, only to find out that the top one or two slots are occupied by boys.

*Except EOTL. He wants to insult any girls in that situation.
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Okay, I’ll bite. Could you please define girl and boy?
 
MacDre said:
Okay, I’ll bite. Could you please define girl and boy?
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Chromosomally, based on the (normally 2) copies of chromosome 23.

For humans, XY are boys, XX are girls. XXY are intersex, as are some whose X chromosome has significant Y elements that did not come from the pseudoautonomal region.

Birds are different. And bees have the whole queen/drone thing going on. But human biological gender is pretty simple.
 
dad4 said:
Chromosomally, based on the (normally 2) copies of chromosome 23.

For humans, XY are boys, XX are girls. XXY are intersex, as are some whose X chromosome has significant Y elements that did not come from the pseudoautonomal region.

Birds are different. And bees have the whole queen/drone thing going on. But human biological gender is pretty simple.
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Many moons ago we thought Earth was flat. Maybe Mendelian genetics is wrong too. Maybe your definition of boys and girls is too narrow and should be broadened to include trans folks or other genetic variants.
 
dad4 said:
Is anyone accusing anyone of faking trans status? I agree it isn’t an issue. Nor is it a question of the end of all women’s sport.

There is an issue, for certain events in certain states, with women being relegated to second tier status in their own sport.

And, so far, no one* here on the left has been willing to talk about the girls who spend 5 years training in a sport, only to find out that the top one or two slots are occupied by boys.

*Except EOTL. He wants to insult any girls in that situation.
Click to expand...

Just the whiny snowflake karens who sue because they don’t like the rules. Pathetic.
 
MacDre said:
Many moons ago we thought Earth was flat. Maybe Mendelian genetics is wrong too. Maybe your definition of boys and girls is too narrow and should be broadened to include trans folks or other genetic variants.
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I have no problem calling her by her name at the next dinner party, supposing we are ever allowed to have those again. That is a social situation, and requires a social definition.

But, for sport, you have a very serious biological question. For that reason, you need a biological definition. It just doesn't happen to match my social definition.

In other words, she can be one of the girls who, for various reasons, is competing in the boys division.
 
dad4 said:
I have no problem calling her by her name at the next dinner party, supposing we are ever allowed to have those again. That is a social situation, and requires a social definition.

But, for sport, you have a very serious biological question. For that reason, you need a biological definition. It just doesn't happen to match my social definition.

In other words, she can be one of the girls who, for various reasons, is competing in the boys division.
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Fallacious reasoning because you have assumed being trans is a social construct and not biological. I think being trans is biological and therein lies the difference in our viewpoints.
 
MacDre said:
Fallacious reasoning because you have assumed being trans is a social construct and not biological. I think being trans is biological and therein lies the difference in our viewpoints.
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Interesting viewpoint, mind elaborating on your biological angle?
 
MacDre said:
Fallacious reasoning because you have assumed being trans is a social construct and not biological. I think being trans is biological and therein lies the difference in our viewpoints.
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Whether or not it is biological, the mechanism does not involve a significant reduction to the secondary sexual characteristics which give an advantage in sport.

So, in terms of biology for sport, that "girl" is a boy.

Now, is there some brain chemistry involved? Sure. But brain chemistry isn't what gives my son an unfair advantage when running against girls.

And unfair advantage is the right question when bracketing a sports event.
 
Lurked forever but finally have to post. I have a transgender daughter, biologically male. She has started hormone treatments. She loves sports, and doesn't care about winning or losing, just wants to play. We decided it was not safe for her to play on male teams because she has been physically assualted, targeted and severly bullied in the past. she plays two sports with other girls. She fits in with other girls. Our experience is that the girls do not care at all; they like her. It is youth sports. The people who care that much are smart enough to keep it to themselves to our faces, I guess, because they know how pathetic it sounds to be that worked up about chiuldren's sports. She does not plan to compete in college, but if she did I assume the governing bodies would mandate hormone testing or whatever else could keep an even playing field. As far as elementary, middle chool and high school sports are concerned, though, anyone who wants to sideline these kids is just pathetic. The other kids don't care. It is small minded parents who do.
 
FutbolHeidiHo said:
Lurked forever but finally have to post. I have a transgender daughter, biologically male. She has started hormone treatments. She loves sports, and doesn't care about winning or losing, just wants to play. We decided it was not safe for her to play on male teams because she has been physically assualted, targeted and severly bullied in the past. she plays two sports with other girls. She fits in with other girls. Our experience is that the girls do not care at all; they like her. It is youth sports. The people who care that much are smart enough to keep it to themselves to our faces, I guess, because they know how pathetic it sounds to be that worked up about chiuldren's sports. She does not plan to compete in college, but if she did I assume the governing bodies would mandate hormone testing or whatever else could keep an even playing field. As far as elementary, middle chool and high school sports are concerned, though, anyone who wants to sideline these kids is just pathetic. The other kids don't care. It is small minded parents who do.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing. Good to hear from someone with first hand experience.
 
FutbolHeidiHo said:
Lurked forever but finally have to post. I have a transgender daughter, biologically male. She has started hormone treatments. She loves sports, and doesn't care about winning or losing, just wants to play. We decided it was not safe for her to play on male teams because she has been physically assualted, targeted and severly bullied in the past. she plays two sports with other girls. She fits in with other girls. Our experience is that the girls do not care at all; they like her. It is youth sports. The people who care that much are smart enough to keep it to themselves to our faces, I guess, because they know how pathetic it sounds to be that worked up about chiuldren's sports. She does not plan to compete in college, but if she did I assume the governing bodies would mandate hormone testing or whatever else could keep an even playing field. As far as elementary, middle chool and high school sports are concerned, though, anyone who wants to sideline these kids is just pathetic. The other kids don't care. It is small minded parents who do.
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What age kid, what type of city?

( SF bay area here, which may or may not distort my perception of the world. )
 
dad4 said:
What age kid, what type of city?

( SF bay area here, which may or may not distort my perception of the world. )
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Now 15 year old girl. Inland area of SoCal. Her preference would have been to quit sports because it was too hard but we fought for her to play. Once she found teams who were willing to get to know her she was glad and has thrived. The other kids are great and having teammates has made school so much better for her. Once kids know her everything is easier. She did run track in middle school. Now it is all team sports, but I suppose she is taking a spot from another girl. But the kids who compete against her don't even think of her as a boy with some unfair advantage, so far as I have ever seen. Trust me, this kid has had ZERO advantage in her life. Sports or otherwise.
 
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