GunScare @ Albion Cup?
- Thread starter PruritusAniFC
- Start date
I was at San Bernadino Soccer Complex and everyone was pretty well behaved. Separating the home and away team with sides of the field worked very well too imo. There was one really loud, non-stop joysticking coach in our bracket, but with separate sidelines, it wasn't a big deal. Saw some great soccer and it was very civil. SCDSL has pretty strict rules for bad sideline behavior, so I have not seen anything like you're describing above.
Calsouth’s press release say that they will require cooperation in the investigation by the clubs. +5 years ago, clubs were not required to cooperate and Calsouth could not hold them accountable, which I always thought was weird. Were the rules changed previously or did they just change them for this issue?
Also the PAD use to be made up of volunteers that met on Sundays. Is that still the case? If so, I highly doubt that they will be able to resolve this issue before the clubs in question are scheduled to play in State Cup. PAD becomes really busy during this time of year. Too bad innocent families are caught up in this mess.
Also the PAD use to be made up of volunteers that met on Sundays. Is that still the case? If so, I highly doubt that they will be able to resolve this issue before the clubs in question are scheduled to play in State Cup. PAD becomes really busy during this time of year. Too bad innocent families are caught up in this mess.
Cal South Statement Regarding Albion Tournament in Temecula, Calif. - Cal South
Cal South is dedicated to providing a safe and enjoyable athletic experience. Adherence to Cal South’s standards for appropriate conduct, respect, and safety are mandatory. This applies to players, coaches, administrators, referees and spectators. Violations …
calsouth.com
Two points:
Point 1: To blame Cal South is stupid. I don't know if its been said before, but this was simply a Cal South "Sanctioned" Tournament that was played at a 3rd party Venue (Galway Downs) and hosted and promoted by a 3rd party club (Albion). Its a little unfair to blame Cal South for any of what happened at Albion/Galway because it was not sponsored or conducted by Cal South. The referee crew had everything under control until the 3rd party juvenile delinquent entered the field and then the Albion and Azteca parents.
Point 2: There are 3 primary groups to blame:
1) The parents of the dumbass kids that ran onto the field for being so inept at parenting that this kid thought running onto the field was an appropriate response. These parents and their kid should be banned for life, they don't belong in soccer.
2) All the parents that ran onto the field, a fight between two kids is the sole responsibility of the coaches, the players and the referee crew to manage. There is never a justified excuse for a parent to be on the field unless they have some sort of medical training AND were invited. Every parent that was on the field should be suspended for 1 season. Their kids can play, but those parents need to be punished.
3) The Azteca coach for allowing a culture to exist on his team where parents of dumbass kids could find a home.
Neither the venue, the tournament, nor Cal South have any responsibility for the actions of grown ass adults and their dumbass children. Zero. A code of conduct exists.
Point 1: To blame Cal South is stupid. I don't know if its been said before, but this was simply a Cal South "Sanctioned" Tournament that was played at a 3rd party Venue (Galway Downs) and hosted and promoted by a 3rd party club (Albion). Its a little unfair to blame Cal South for any of what happened at Albion/Galway because it was not sponsored or conducted by Cal South. The referee crew had everything under control until the 3rd party juvenile delinquent entered the field and then the Albion and Azteca parents.
Point 2: There are 3 primary groups to blame:
1) The parents of the dumbass kids that ran onto the field for being so inept at parenting that this kid thought running onto the field was an appropriate response. These parents and their kid should be banned for life, they don't belong in soccer.
2) All the parents that ran onto the field, a fight between two kids is the sole responsibility of the coaches, the players and the referee crew to manage. There is never a justified excuse for a parent to be on the field unless they have some sort of medical training AND were invited. Every parent that was on the field should be suspended for 1 season. Their kids can play, but those parents need to be punished.
3) The Azteca coach for allowing a culture to exist on his team where parents of dumbass kids could find a home.
Neither the venue, the tournament, nor Cal South have any responsibility for the actions of grown ass adults and their dumbass children. Zero. A code of conduct exists.
jpeter
PREMIER
Well mixed experiences when he's been coaching in the da in the past, he had some issues and don't think he's doing DA any longer.
I disagree with #2 to some extent. If I saw an intruder sucker-punching my kid in the head, I wouldn't be able to hold myself back. Period.
I have responded to the "unless they have some sort of medical training AND were invited" passage in the past (long lost in the fog of Forum crashes). In addition to the parental instincts above, I would enter a field during a game to treat or protect a player suffering from severe bleeding, a convulsive seizure, or an obvious broken limb. The referee can throw me out without complaint on my part ass long as he notes the situation completely in his game report.
Yep, as I mentioned before some of the posters are confusing blame with responsibilities. Calsouth is not to blame for this specific incident; however, as the sanctioning entity it has a huge responsibility to respond to the situation (including appropriate punishment) and do its best to implement measures that might prevent this from happening in the future. Albion as the tournament host has a similar responsibility to do so and even greater responsibility since members of their club apparently acted irresponsibly and may (or may not have) provoked the incident. Instead they've chosen to point fingers at a young teen and claim the incident was harmless despite hundreds of children and parents running for their lives with some crying and screaming. Do you really trust a youth organization that calls this incident harmless? Of course none of this excuses the behavior of the Azteca individuals, or the Azteca club to respond as well. Those of you that are in the weeds of legalities or specific individual innocence or guilt are missing the point entirely.
I serve on the board of a not-for-profit youth services organization. If our CEO responded with the same callous and dismissive responses as NG and ZK to an incident where kids feared for their lives (whether it was our fault or not), that CEO would be looking for a new job.
At @espola, stay the "f*$%" off the field. Let the coaches and refs handle it. Once you set foot then another parent will and the ref's lose their ability to control anything. By the time some kid cold-cocks yours, there is nothing you can do. Stay off. PERIOD!!!!
@jpeter, Disagree. Sanctioning an event means that the promoters of the event have assured Cal South that they are (1) members (and in good standing); (2) have adopted and will enforce the US Youth Soccer/Cal South code of conduct and other US Youth Soccer/Cal South rules and regulations; and (3) will employ a referee association approved by Cal South. The tournament pays a whopping $100 (one hundred dollars) and delivers:
- Cal South Application for Tournament Sanctioning
- Receipt & Affidavit of Compliance
- US Youth Soccer Application to Host a Tournament or Games
- US Youth Soccer Tournament Hosting Agreement
- Sanctioned Tournament Referee Association Certification
- $100 Application Fee (club check payable to Cal South or credit card authorization form)
There is no review beyond are they in good standing and has the tournament promised to abide by our rules? The $100 is a fair document review fee for the cost of the employee that will take a few hours to review and put the tournament on the website.
The argument that Cal South has any culpability or in your words "...is a big part of the problem" is akin to saying the State of California, DMV, should be held liable for the acts of drivers that break the law. Bullshit. Adults are 100% responsible for their behavior ... 100%.
@watfly, Agree, but that is not what 90% of the posters here believe. They believe that Cal South is some omnipotent entity that can stop this kind of crap from happening with a magical hand of God. What happens next and how Cal South will engage in the review and punishment process under its PAD process is on Cal South's shoulders and so far, it seems that the preliminary suspensions are valid and the process is moving forward under the rules of Cal South and US Youth Soccer.
As a referee (I don't think you have, but correct me if I'm wrong), our worst fear is parents and spectators entering the field during a melee or fight. We (referees and coaches) can handle the players and the occasional juvenile delinquent. Once adults enter the playing field its a cascade effect that creates chaos. I reject your rejection as ill advised as its both against the rules and illogical.
May be they think that way but IDK. I get the sense that many of the posters feel like Calsouth hasn't addressed serious bad behavior from clubs, coaches, parents, refs and players in the past which has created an environment where bad behavior is tolerated. I was very skeptical how Calsouth was going to respond in this situation. Its response was better than anything I would have expected. Now they have to follow through.
My son has been punched in a game a couple times (1st time the ref waived it off, the 2nd time the ref gave advantage despite the fact the punch dropped my son and never came back to issue a card). Never once have I run on the field to confront the puncher or tried to start a fight with the other parents (although I may have said something to the ref afterwards). However, if my son was ever seriously injured in a game you can bet that I will run onto the field to tend to my kid, the ref doesn't have medical authority over my child. Most competent refs are going to wave the parent on anyway. Only a ref with a very misguided sense of authority would prevent a parent from coming on to the field for a seriously injured child.
Many years ago when I was our club's representative to the Cal South annual meeting in LA, one of the items up for discussion and vote concerned re-organizing the whole PAD process. The measure passed. After the meeting, I spoke with the former PAD chairwoman and asked her about the background of the issue. She said that some members of the board were upset that some powerful coaches and administrators (that's how she described them - I have no way to verify it) who were friends with the board members had been punished with suspensions and fines by the old PAD. We didn't really have time to get into details, and I took it with a grain of salt. However, over the years, we have seen discussed on this forum many instances where the Cal South BOD said one thing one day and then reversed itself soon after. I don't know why that should happen.
As for the latest tournament issue - it seems to me that the two identified miscreants were associated with the Azteca team, and yet many here are posting opinions that Albion (team, coach, club, parents, etc) should be punished. What am I missing?
baldref
GOLD
morals. ethics. brain cells. common sense. testosterone. That's a decent start
You shouldn't make it so obvious that you have nothing constructive to say. Or was that your point?
Definitelynotanotherref
SILVER ELITE
In High School Soccer, it is an automatic red for a substitute to leave the bench after a altercation between 2 players takes place. It doesn't matter if they "were just running in to break up the fight". Automatic red.
Even granting the benefit of the doubt to the subs (that they wanted to quell the fight), I agree with the sanction because in every case, having more people run into the melee area just makes things worse. Every parent that left their chair and entered the field deserves to be punished whether or not they wanted to "help". Although the 2 initial perpetrators were from Azteca, we should still be punishing the Albion team as well. It takes two to tango. remove the Albion parents from entering the field (minus the 1 dad of punched kid) and this situation de-escalates much quicker, and every spectator that entered the field removed from the game and the game continued.
Even granting the benefit of the doubt to the subs (that they wanted to quell the fight), I agree with the sanction because in every case, having more people run into the melee area just makes things worse. Every parent that left their chair and entered the field deserves to be punished whether or not they wanted to "help". Although the 2 initial perpetrators were from Azteca, we should still be punishing the Albion team as well. It takes two to tango. remove the Albion parents from entering the field (minus the 1 dad of punched kid) and this situation de-escalates much quicker, and every spectator that entered the field removed from the game and the game continued.
Any parent (Azteca and Albion) that entered the field should be punished for contributing and inciting violence and/or the threat of violence as 3rd party agents. The Albion coach is responsible for his parents, so he should be punished. The Azteca coach is responsible for his parents, so he should be punished. Why? Because the referees and coaches had the situation under control, the entrance of the Azteca juvenile delinquent to the field of play created a situation that was a brief escalation that the Azteca coach was responsible for eliminating. Once the parents entered the field they caused the potential for additional acts of violence, therefore, all that entered should be punished. Punishment in this case for the parents should be a sufficient suspension to cause those parents to modify their behavior in the future and keep theirs asses in their seats and let the coaches and referees quell the dispute.
The appropriate response from the Albion players is (1) don't fight; (2) don't fight; (3) don't fight; and (4) go to the sideline. The appropriate response from the Azteca players is (1) don't fight; and (2) pile on their player's older brother and hold him down to prevent additional acts of violence. All players that engaged in acts of violence including swings and misses should be suspended.
I'll wait for the whole video to come out.