Girls DPL?

[Justafan]

It is my opinion based on observations that DPL is at least as good as the top of flight 1 or gold and certainly not inferior to it.

WE AGREE! Remember, I never said that SCDSL or CSL was better than DPL, in fact I think they are comparable. What I have a problem with is the insinuation or assumption that DPL is better than the others.

As I've said before, generally speaking, there are about 3-5 elite teams in each age group, followed by about 8-10 excellent teams, followed by about 20-30 very good teams. At least in the older age groups, DA and ECNL take up most (perhaps not all) of the top 15 spots and the next 20-30 very good teams are dispersed pretty evenly between the other leagues.

I never had, nor will I ever have, a problem with anyone finding the right fit with a team that happens to be a DPL team.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

WE AGREE! Remember, I never said that SCDSL or CSL was better than DPL, in fact I think they are comparable. What I have a problem with is the insinuation or assumption that DPL is better than the others.

As I've said before, generally speaking, there are about 3-5 elite teams in each age group, followed by about 8-10 excellent teams, followed by about 20-30 very good teams. At least in the older age groups, DA and ECNL take up most (perhaps not all) of the top 15 spots and the next 20-30 very good teams are dispersed pretty evenly between the other leagues.

I never had, nor will I ever have, a problem with anyone finding the right fit with a team that happens to be a DPL team.

I agree completely with your post! It's an exciting week for us since we are heading to Florida. I am going too to check it out. Should be interesting.

 

[DefndrDad]

You are right in your critique about how I worded my response. I am not trying to distinguish DPL as better. I am just trying to gently encourage those that are to look at standings like this with an open mind.

http://2017crlleagueseason.sportsaf...mentguid=D388082C-745C-4D0B-B45D-8D225EAC7B94

Another thing to consider in this discussion is the results/experiences are different depending on what age group you are discussing. The link you posted was for 2001’s. The results and discussions can vary as you move from 2001 to 2000 to 2003‘s. The age year change, along with DA and Dpl affected these groups definitely.

 

[Dummy]

Another thing to consider in this discussion is the results/experiences are different depending on what age group you are discussing. The link you posted was for 2001’s. The results and discussions can vary as you move from 2001 to 2000 to 2003‘s. The age year change, along with DA and Dpl affected these groups definitely.

You are correct, but the reason that I posted links about 2001’s was because I joined in a conversation about 2001’s. I am interested to hear the experiences that players and families have had in these other age groups.

 

[SocalPapa]

My impression for a while now has been that the best SCDSL Champions teams and best DPL teams are both very good. Nothing I've seen recently has changed that impression.

The issue in my view isn't which league is "better" now. The issue is how the split has affected these top teams. To try to measure the impact, I computed the spread in average goal differential between the top 3 teams and the worst 3 teams both before and after the split.

I found that, on average, the spread increased about half a goal per game for the 2004-2001 age groups combined. This means that the best teams were half a goal better per game than the worst teams in league play than they were prior to the split. The difference was most pronounced in the 2004 age group and also more pronounced in DPL than in SCDSL (meaning that the best DPL teams were more negatively impacted by the split than the best SCDSL teams).

The analysis is not perfect because some of the DPL teams came from CSL, but the results seem to confirm that the formation of DPL has hurt the best players and teams by reducing the number of similarly good players and teams they face week to week in league play. So it's not just a matter of us parents choosing which league works better for our daughters. Everyone is affected by the split and therefore everyone has an interest in what happens going forward.

 

[DefndrDad]

You are correct, but the reason that I posted links about 2001’s was because I joined in a conversation about 2001’s. I am interested to hear the experiences that players and families have had in these other age groups.

My dd is on a 2003 Csl team. The team composition was not affected by the new leagues, but more the level of competition faced. Overall, the competition within league play was lower.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

My impression for a while now has been that the best SCDSL Champions teams and best DPL teams are both very good. Nothing I've seen recently has changed that impression.

The issue in my view isn't which league is "better" now. The issue is how the split has affected these top teams. To try to measure the impact, I computed the spread in average goal differential between the top 3 teams and the worst 3 teams both before and after the split.

I found that, on average, the spread increased about half a goal per game for the 2004-2001 age groups combined. This means that the best teams were half a goal better per game than the worst teams in league play than they were prior to the split. The difference was most pronounced in the 2004 age group and also more pronounced in DPL than in SCDSL (meaning that the best DPL teams were more negatively impacted by the split than the best SCDSL teams).

The analysis is not perfect because some of the DPL teams came from CSL, but the results seem to confirm that the formation of DPL has hurt the best players and teams by reducing the number of similarly good players and teams they face week to week in league play. So it's not just a matter of us parents choosing which league works better for our daughters. Everyone is affected by the split and therefore everyone has an interest in what happens going forward.

View attachment 1768

I think you have provided some very interesting data. Certainly holes can be poked in the specifics. For example there has been a ton of player movement so its hard to compare one year to another. Still I agree that the introduction of DA and new ECNL teams has diluted the talent for the lower leagues. The introduction of DPL has also diluted the level of teams in the remaining SCDSL and CSL. The same could be said for how SCDSL hurt CSL when it was formed several years ago. At the end of the day though the fall leagues are only about 10 out of the 40 plus games that these teams play in a year. So there is still plenty of opportunity to play against each other. National Cup will also bring these three leagues together.

 

[DefndrDad]

I think you have provided some very interesting data. Certainly holes can be poked in the specifics. For example there has been a ton of player movement so its hard to compare one year to another. Still I agree that the introduction of DA and new ECNL teams has diluted the talent for the lower leagues. The introduction of DPL has also diluted the level of teams in the remaining SCDSL and CSL. The same could be said for how SCDSL hurt CSL when it was formed several years ago. At the end of the day though the fall leagues are only about 10 out of the 40 plus games that these teams play in a year. So there is still plenty of opportunity to play against each other. National Cup will also bring these three leagues together.

Which is why tournaments and showcases make it more interesting for us the viewers. The cross league/region/state play give us lots to talk about .

 

[SocalPapa]

I think you have provided some very interesting data. Certainly holes can be poked in the specifics. For example there has been a ton of player movement so its hard to compare one year to another. Still I agree that the introduction of DA and new ECNL teams has diluted the talent for the lower leagues. The introduction of DPL has also diluted the level of teams in the remaining SCDSL and CSL. The same could be said for how SCDSL hurt CSL when it was formed several years ago. At the end of the day though the fall leagues are only about 10 out of the 40 plus games that these teams play in a year. So there is still plenty of opportunity to play against each other. National Cup will also bring these three leagues together.

You can slice the numbers in different ways but they point in one direction. You are right about the impact of DA though, particularly on ECNL. The top SW ECNL teams are still very good (as evidenced from the results in Silverlakes and Surf College Cup), but I'm seeing some poor results at the bottom. I suspect with the same analysis you'd see an even greater hit to the goal differential gap in the Southwest division over the past year. In any event, this is yet another argument for why the formation of DA on the girls side is not necessary a good thing for overall player development in the US.

Further, this a discussion about leagues so the fact that there may be playing opportunities outside of the leagues is somewhat beside the point. And the National Cup matchups are very fluky. Not a good example of having other guaranteed opportunities for a consistent/equal level of competition. Moreover, the fact that a decision adverse to player development may have been made in the past doesn't mean we should repeat it.

P.S. I sincerely hope none of the families on your daughter's team are affected by the fires. And may God bless everyone who is impacted.

 

[zags77]

I watched several of the '01 DPL teams play at Silverlakes Thanksgiving showcase. The games were similar and on par with any SCDSL or CSL game. In my honest opinion the hierarchy goes DA, ECNL and then all 3 SCDSL, DPL, CSL are equal, anyone can beat anyone on any given day.

My biggest complaint is that the tournament stacked the deck so several good teams did not get the opportunity to play DPL teams at the 01 age group. The biggest issue I have with these DPL teams being put in the top flight is that they haven't earned the right to be there. Similarly to CRL all the DPL teams did not earn the right to play in CRL this season, they got a free pass because their top teams last year competed in CRL and performed well. All these large clubs with DA were able to keep their CRL place holders and pass it on their second teams.

There is cross competition currently going on and the DPL teams are not performing. They should be given passes to CRL or top flights of showcases (automatic entry is fine but put them at an appropriate level). 6 of the 10 DPL teams finished in the bottom 12 of Silverlakes thanksgiving showcase with a record of 0-5-13, yes that's right not one win!

Simi, I assumed you moved to Eagles DPL with your former coach, I watched the Eagles vs. Del Sol DPL match and it was an absolute snooze fest. It is nice to hear that your DD is getting the opportunity to play with the DA team this weekend in Florida and that to me is the reason if any to play DPL. Id be curious to hear how many other DPL players are getting the opportunity or chance to play with the DA teams.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

Zags,

You started out fine with your post but then you felt the need to take a cheap shot with your snooze fest comment. I think that is uncalled for.

The other issue I have with your post is the comment "they haven't earned the right to be there". Yes DPL is new but you seem to forget that if DPL did not exist every one of these teams would have been Premier or Flight 1. I don't know what team your with but some of the Premier and Flight 1 teams would be at a lower level if DPL did not exist.

Our team is a a mix of players from 4 teams (1 ECNL team and 3 teams that would have been Premier). Besides having to play a DPL team (which I wish we did not) we tied a top team from Texas and the 2nd place team from Champions Flight 1 so I think we did well.

I agree with you that the real reason to play DPL was the opportunity to get pulled into the DA. If you look at match reports on the DA website you can see the numbers. Each club can use up to 6 DP's at an age group. Most have used 2-3 so far. After the 6 games you can play the club needs to determine whether they want to offer a full time slot or its back to your old team.

 

[zags77]

Zags,

The other issue I have with your post is the comment "they haven't earned the right to be there". Yes DPL is new but you seem to forget that if DPL did not exist every one of these teams would have been Premier or Flight 1. I don't know what team your with but some of the Premier and Flight 1 teams would be at a lower level if DPL did not exist. .

False, you have made this argument several times and it's wrong. LA Galaxy's San Diego top team would be in Premier and playing CRL, the DPL team would be in Silver Elite and not playing CRL. Beach top team would be in Champions League SCDSL and the DPL team would be a Tier 1 team. Albion's top team would be in Premier and the DPL team would be in Gold. So essentially the DPL team you joined at eagles would have been their 0-14 Gold team from 2016. Had the DA not happened you likely would have stayed with Simi Valley.......

I think you get the point. As I stated in my previous post the DPL teams have not earned the right to play in the top flight of anything until they win something. I also think all DPL teams should be required to "play in" to CRL if they don't finish in the top 4 of the CRL standings for 2017-2018.

Sorry about the snooze fest comment, I actually fell asleep, maybe it was from the beers I had at the clubhouse at lunch! Good luck in FLA!

 

[Simisoccerfan]

Just a minor correction to your post. The eagles team we joined was their Premier team not their gold team. There DA team is essentially there ECNL team from last year. Their gold team was demoted to Silver Elite.

 

[Lambchop]

I watched several of the '01 DPL teams play at Silverlakes Thanksgiving showcase. The games were similar and on par with any SCDSL or CSL game. In my honest opinion the hierarchy goes DA, ECNL and then all 3 SCDSL, DPL, CSL are equal, anyone can beat anyone on any given day.

My biggest complaint is that the tournament stacked the deck so several good teams did not get the opportunity to play DPL teams at the 01 age group. The biggest issue I have with these DPL teams being put in the top flight is that they haven't earned the right to be there. Similarly to CRL all the DPL teams did not earn the right to play in CRL this season, they got a free pass because their top teams last year competed in CRL and performed well. All these large clubs with DA were able to keep their CRL place holders and pass it on their second teams.
A little off topic, good luck to all the southern California girls heading to Florida today! What
There is cross competition currently going on and the DPL teams are not performing. They should be given passes to CRL or top flights of showcases (automatic entry is fine but put them at an appropriate level). 6 of the 10 DPL teams finished in the bottom 12 of Silverlakes thanksgiving showcase with a record of 0-5-13, yes that's right not one win!

Simi, I assumed you moved to Eagles DPL with your former coach, I watched the Eagles vs. Del Sol DPL match and it was an absolute snooze fest. It is nice to hear that your DD is getting the opportunity to play with the DA team this weekend in Florida and that to me is the reason if any to play DPL. Id be curious to hear how many other DPL players are getting the opportunity or chance to play with the DA teams.

A little off topic, but good luck to all the Southern California girls heading to Florida today! What a fun memory!

 

[Dummy]

My dd is on a 2003 Csl team. The team composition was not affected by the new leagues, but more the level of competition faced. Overall, the competition within league play was lower.

That too has been mine’s experience in SCDSL and CRL.

Zags,

You started out fine with your post but then you felt the need to take a cheap shot with your snooze fest comment. I think that is uncalled for.

The other issue I have with your post is the comment "they haven't earned the right to be there". Yes DPL is new but you seem to forget that if DPL did not exist every one of these teams would have been Premier or Flight 1. I don't know what team your with but some of the Premier and Flight 1 teams would be at a lower level if DPL did not exist.

Our team is a a mix of players from 4 teams (1 ECNL team and 3 teams that would have been Premier). Besides having to play a DPL team (which I wish we did not) we tied a top team from Texas and the 2nd place team from Champions Flight 1 so I think we did well.

I agree with you that the real reason to play DPL was the opportunity to get pulled into the DA. If you look at match reports on the DA website you can see the numbers. Each club can use up to 6 DP's at an age group. Most have used 2-3 so far. After the 6 games you can play the club needs to determine whether they want to offer a full time slot or its back to your old team.

Are there other So Cal DA clubs taking DPL players to Florida? What does it cost for DPL players to participate?

 

[Simisoccerfan]

No cost difference.

 

[Mystery Train]

It is easier to "look like a well oiled machines" when you play less skilled teams.

True, but I don't know that anyone can assess the skill gap (if it exists) between the Flight 1 and the CSL Premier teams I'm thinking of, vs. various new DPL & DA squads and the depleted ECNL teams because of the closed circuits. Both of them waxed high-level teams at Surf College Cup, including an ECNL club . . . and both still looked like well-oiled machines to me. I'd love to see some of these teams meet up in National Cup play.

My original point was that teams that stick together over long periods of time can compete with hastily formed all-star teams because of the consistency of play and coaching. Over time, I would expect that if those new DPL and DA teams stay together, they would benefit from that same factor and should rise to the top, but the quality of play in the early stages has looked pretty ragged to this observer.

 

[Desert Hound]

So for those who had kids in the DPL...how has it been so far? Worth it?

 

[Soccerreccos]

So many factors go into happiness with a soccer season.... dynamics of the girls on the team, coaches, team manager, weather, you name it. We, as parents, were not happy with this DPL season. As a separate issue, our daughter was not happy. I can point to many reasons but the disorganization of DPL and the messaging to DPL players by the club were some (not all) of the contributing factors.

 

[Desert Hound]

So many factors go into happiness with a soccer season.... dynamics of the girls on the team, coaches, team manager, weather, you name it. We, as parents, were not happy with this DPL season. As a separate issue, our daughter was not happy. I can point to many reasons but the disorganization of DPL and the messaging to DPL players by the club were some (not all) of the contributing factors.

Was it an issue of selling something that was not? IE hey this is just south of DA...but the reality was not?

And you are right...lots of factors contribute to whether or not a team works out.

 

[Soccerreccos]

Was it an issue of selling something that was not? IE hey this is just south of DA...but the reality was not?

And you are right...lots of factors contribute to whether or not a team works out.

Unfulfilled promises. A league that was thrown together. Not enough games before the season began. Bad communication all the way around. My daughter did not develop under this program. She had perhaps the least development this year than in all her other years playing soccer (at the highest cost, mind you). Again, lots of factors with DPL being one of them. And DPL is not “just south” of DA. Second class citizens (at least in my experience).