Girls DPL?

[LadiesMan217]

DPL turned out to be what most realistic people thought. The idea of "mirroring" the DA program with a closed league, game films and guaranteed entry in showcase events was a good idea with poor execution. The schedule included 9 games with some teams having a 3+ week gap in games, we have received a total of 5 game films of 9 games (5 from our team). Some teams used professional services others had a camcorder on a stick(RSC). The quality of teams and style of play was about what we expected and the showcases were good. In 2018 So Cal club soccer would be better served to have these teams play in SCDSL flight 1.

What was poorly executed? Was the late September gap really an issue? How closed is it really (CDA Slammers, Slammers, Surf, Blues, etc. can all have teams if they want)? How many films did the SCDSL teams make? How is SoCal better served with teams playing in a SCDSL Flight 1? Interested in your thoughts although I have no skin in the game (not being troll)...

 

[Simisoccerfan]

We played the second place SCDSL Champions Division team to a draw and in my opinion we had better chances to win than them. I know most will not like hearing this but for 2001's DPL is more competitive that the Champions division. I think DPL is on the right track.

 

[Lambchop]

I have seen this play out dramatically in the 02 age group. That age group has had to endure the most turmoil at the most critical point in gaining college exposure. From the age group change as they went into the U15 season, to the DA & DPL leagues being established, which on top of the usual off-season free agency craziness, means that almost no teams in the top 50 in SoCal stayed intact from U14 to U16. A couple that did in Flight 1 and CSL Gold (mixes of '03 and '02's that 'played up' in U14) look like well oiled machines in games. I've watched some of the DA teams play this summer and a few ECNL teams whose rosters have been shuffled because of the DA, and though they still have top notch athletes, the games are pretty ragged compared to what I saw in years past at the same age groups. Every year there is movement on all teams, but some of the rosters are almost unrecognizable and it does affect quality of play, even if you have great players.

It is easier to "look like a well oiled machines" when you play less skilled teams.

 

[Justafan]

We played the second place SCDSL Champions Division team to a draw and in my opinion we had better chances to win than them. I know most will not like hearing this but for 2001's DPL is more competitive that the Champions division. I think DPL is on the right track.

Wrong again, SCDSL v. DPL record was 1- win, 0-losses, and 4 ties. The FACTS don't back you up. You point to ONE game and claim a moral victory with a tie. And for the record, I am not saying one league is better than the other, in fact I think the top teams in DPL, SCDSL, and ECNL (in the younger age groups) are all pretty evenly matched. YOU are saying DPL is better than SCDSL. Looking at the DPL standings, it looks like you have one real good team at the top, two real bad teams at the bottom, and everyone else pretty even. Sounds like your typical league distribution to me. And just with most second teams, the stronger clubs have the stronger second teams. Don't forget your record against ECNL, which wasn't very good.

 

[Fact]

Wrong again, SCDSL v. DPL record was 1- win, 0-losses, and 4 ties. The FACTS don't back you up. You point to ONE game and claim a moral victory with a tie. And for the record, I am not saying one league is better than the other, in fact I think the top teams in DPL, SCDSL, and ECNL (in the younger age groups) are all pretty evenly matched. YOU are saying DPL is better than SCDSL. Looking at the DPL standings, it looks like you have one real good team at the top, two real bad teams at the bottom, and everyone else pretty even. Sounds like your typical league distribution to me. And just with most second teams, the stronger clubs have the stronger second teams. Don't forget your record against ECNL, which wasn't very good.

How dare you be rational and provide facts! Gotta love the spin.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

Wrong again, SCDSL v. DPL record was 1- win, 0-losses, and 4 ties. The FACTS don't back you up. You point to ONE game and claim a moral victory with a tie. And for the record, I am not saying one league is better than the other, in fact I think the top teams in DPL, SCDSL, and ECNL (in the younger age groups) are all pretty evenly matched. YOU are saying DPL is better than SCDSL. Looking at the DPL standings, it looks like you have one real good team at the top, two real bad teams at the bottom, and everyone else pretty even. Sounds like your typical league distribution to me. And just with most second teams, the stronger clubs have the stronger second teams. Don't forget your record against ECNL, which wasn't very good.

You can quote all the stats you want. They don't tell the story. Did you watch any of those games? I did. I believe that DPL is as good as Champions if not more consistent. I make no reference to ECNL. Also remember that only three of the better SCDSL teams were in this bracket. Certainly not the weaker teams of Champions.

 

[Dummy]

You can quote all the stats you want. They don't tell the story. Did you watch any of those games? I did. I believe that DPL is as good as Champions if not more consistent. I make no reference to ECNL. Also remember that only three of the better SCDSL teams were in this bracket. Certainly not the weaker teams of Champions.

CRL results seem to suggest that SCDSL and CSL teams are competive against DPL teams. If DPL teams are a better fit for some players and families, fine. SCDSL and CSL clubs and teams still have plenty to offer other players and families.

 

[Justafan]

You can quote all the stats you want. They don't tell the story. Did you watch any of those games? I did. I believe that DPL is as good as Champions if not more consistent. I make no reference to ECNL. Also remember that only three of the better SCDSL teams were in this bracket. Certainly not the weaker teams of Champions.

Wrong again Simi, you're trying WAY too hard to distinguish DPL from the other leagues and its just not working. If you had just left out the "if not more consistent," you would have been fine with me, but you had to throw that line in there just to give DPL a slight edge.

Here are the facts:

South Slammers FC (7th place in champions) crushed Pats, the 7th place DPL team 5-2. They tied the 2nd place DPL team LA Premiere 1-1.

CDA Slammers FC HB Elite (2nd place Champions) tied 5th place DPL SC Del Sol 3-3 and tied 8th place Eagles 1-1.

Legends South (2nd place Europa West, arguably in SCDSL's 11-15 range, and I'm not counting the 2 last place teams in Champions) tied 9th place LA Galaxy Del Sol 1-1.

No I didn't watch, but I don't know what you were watching to make the call as "more consistent." Again, all I'm saying is that both these leagues are very evenly matched and for one to assume superiority over the other is flat out wrong. That's what I'm calling you out on. And my core argument is that there was no need to create this league.

 

[Justafan]

CRL results seem to suggest that SCDSL and CSL teams are competive against DPL teams. If DPL teams are a better fit for some players and families, fine. SCDSL and CSL clubs and teams still have plenty to offer other players and families.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Look at the way you consciously or subconsciously word your first sentence when you say "SCDSL and CSL teams are competitive against DPL teams," as if to assume that DPL teams are the standard, and that SCDSL and CSL teams have proven themselves enough to be up to that standard. Again, you guys are trying too hard too distinguish DPL as somehow better, even if slight, than the other leagues. That's just not going to fly here.

 

[Dummy]

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Look at the way you consciously or subconsciously word your first sentence when you say "SCDSL and CSL teams are competitive against DPL teams," as if to assume that DPL teams are the standard, and that SCDSL and CSL teams have proven themselves enough to be up to that standard. Again, you guys are trying too hard too distinguish DPL as somehow better, even if slight, than the other leagues. That's just not going to fly here.

You are right in your critique about how I worded my response. I am not trying to distinguish DPL as better. I am just trying to gently encourage those that are to look at standings like this with an open mind.

http://2017crlleagueseason.sportsaf...mentguid=D388082C-745C-4D0B-B45D-8D225EAC7B94

 

[Simisoccerfan]

Justafan, I know don't like my opinion. I know you and many others are in the wishful thinking group thinking DPL should not exist. But that ship has sailed. I have seen a lot of club soccer with three kids playing for a decade now. I have seen most of the better 01 teams play through years. It is my opinion based on observations that DPL is at least as good as the top of flight 1 or gold and certainly not inferior to it. You can't just look at scores but you need to watch actual games. I know you don't agree. That's fine with me. But I can say playing DPL was the right decision for my dd.

 

[Dummy]

Justafan, I know don't like my opinion. I know you and many others are in the wishful thinking group thinking DPL should not exist. But that ship has sailed. I have seen a lot of club soccer with three kids playing for a decade now. I have seen most of the better 01 teams play through years. It is my opinion based on observations that DPL is at least as good as the top of flight 1 or gold and certainly not inferior to it. You can't just look at scores but you need to watch actual games. I know you don't agree. That's fine with me. But I can say playing DPL was the right decision for my dd.

DPL is a fine choice for players and parents to make. Each family knows what is best for them given what is available where they live. However, in my opinion, justafan is right that the creation of DPL has diminished club soccer in Southern California. Our team misses playing the “DPL” teams that it used to play when they were in SoCal leagues. I do not see the benefit to DPL teams to playing in a closed circuit. What it looks like me when I look at the league standings is that all the teams at the top of each league (CSL, DPL and SCDSL) are in want of stronger local competition.

I have no doubt that your family has made the right decision for your player, but that does not mean that the people that run DA/DPL have done the same. Please respect that there are players, families, teams and clubs that seem to play soccer at the highest level without validation from US Soccer.

http://events.gotsport.com/events/s...178&FieldID=0&applicationID=4351249&action=Go

 

[Justafan]

It is my opinion based on observations that DPL is at least as good as the top of flight 1 or gold and certainly not inferior to it.

WE AGREE! Remember, I never said that SCDSL or CSL was better than DPL, in fact I think they are comparable. What I have a problem with is the insinuation or assumption that DPL is better than the others.

As I've said before, generally speaking, there are about 3-5 elite teams in each age group, followed by about 8-10 excellent teams, followed by about 20-30 very good teams. At least in the older age groups, DA and ECNL take up most (perhaps not all) of the top 15 spots and the next 20-30 very good teams are dispersed pretty evenly between the other leagues.

I never had, nor will I ever have, a problem with anyone finding the right fit with a team that happens to be a DPL team.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

WE AGREE! Remember, I never said that SCDSL or CSL was better than DPL, in fact I think they are comparable. What I have a problem with is the insinuation or assumption that DPL is better than the others.

As I've said before, generally speaking, there are about 3-5 elite teams in each age group, followed by about 8-10 excellent teams, followed by about 20-30 very good teams. At least in the older age groups, DA and ECNL take up most (perhaps not all) of the top 15 spots and the next 20-30 very good teams are dispersed pretty evenly between the other leagues.

I never had, nor will I ever have, a problem with anyone finding the right fit with a team that happens to be a DPL team.

I agree completely with your post! It's an exciting week for us since we are heading to Florida. I am going too to check it out. Should be interesting.

 

[DefndrDad]

You are right in your critique about how I worded my response. I am not trying to distinguish DPL as better. I am just trying to gently encourage those that are to look at standings like this with an open mind.

http://2017crlleagueseason.sportsaf...mentguid=D388082C-745C-4D0B-B45D-8D225EAC7B94

Another thing to consider in this discussion is the results/experiences are different depending on what age group you are discussing. The link you posted was for 2001’s. The results and discussions can vary as you move from 2001 to 2000 to 2003‘s. The age year change, along with DA and Dpl affected these groups definitely.

 

[Dummy]

Another thing to consider in this discussion is the results/experiences are different depending on what age group you are discussing. The link you posted was for 2001’s. The results and discussions can vary as you move from 2001 to 2000 to 2003‘s. The age year change, along with DA and Dpl affected these groups definitely.

You are correct, but the reason that I posted links about 2001’s was because I joined in a conversation about 2001’s. I am interested to hear the experiences that players and families have had in these other age groups.

 

[SocalPapa]

My impression for a while now has been that the best SCDSL Champions teams and best DPL teams are both very good. Nothing I've seen recently has changed that impression.

The issue in my view isn't which league is "better" now. The issue is how the split has affected these top teams. To try to measure the impact, I computed the spread in average goal differential between the top 3 teams and the worst 3 teams both before and after the split.

I found that, on average, the spread increased about half a goal per game for the 2004-2001 age groups combined. This means that the best teams were half a goal better per game than the worst teams in league play than they were prior to the split. The difference was most pronounced in the 2004 age group and also more pronounced in DPL than in SCDSL (meaning that the best DPL teams were more negatively impacted by the split than the best SCDSL teams).

The analysis is not perfect because some of the DPL teams came from CSL, but the results seem to confirm that the formation of DPL has hurt the best players and teams by reducing the number of similarly good players and teams they face week to week in league play. So it's not just a matter of us parents choosing which league works better for our daughters. Everyone is affected by the split and therefore everyone has an interest in what happens going forward.

 

[DefndrDad]

You are correct, but the reason that I posted links about 2001’s was because I joined in a conversation about 2001’s. I am interested to hear the experiences that players and families have had in these other age groups.

My dd is on a 2003 Csl team. The team composition was not affected by the new leagues, but more the level of competition faced. Overall, the competition within league play was lower.

 

[Simisoccerfan]

My impression for a while now has been that the best SCDSL Champions teams and best DPL teams are both very good. Nothing I've seen recently has changed that impression.

The issue in my view isn't which league is "better" now. The issue is how the split has affected these top teams. To try to measure the impact, I computed the spread in average goal differential between the top 3 teams and the worst 3 teams both before and after the split.

I found that, on average, the spread increased about half a goal per game for the 2004-2001 age groups combined. This means that the best teams were half a goal better per game than the worst teams in league play than they were prior to the split. The difference was most pronounced in the 2004 age group and also more pronounced in DPL than in SCDSL (meaning that the best DPL teams were more negatively impacted by the split than the best SCDSL teams).

The analysis is not perfect because some of the DPL teams came from CSL, but the results seem to confirm that the formation of DPL has hurt the best players and teams by reducing the number of similarly good players and teams they face week to week in league play. So it's not just a matter of us parents choosing which league works better for our daughters. Everyone is affected by the split and therefore everyone has an interest in what happens going forward.

View attachment 1768

I think you have provided some very interesting data. Certainly holes can be poked in the specifics. For example there has been a ton of player movement so its hard to compare one year to another. Still I agree that the introduction of DA and new ECNL teams has diluted the talent for the lower leagues. The introduction of DPL has also diluted the level of teams in the remaining SCDSL and CSL. The same could be said for how SCDSL hurt CSL when it was formed several years ago. At the end of the day though the fall leagues are only about 10 out of the 40 plus games that these teams play in a year. So there is still plenty of opportunity to play against each other. National Cup will also bring these three leagues together.

 

[DefndrDad]

I think you have provided some very interesting data. Certainly holes can be poked in the specifics. For example there has been a ton of player movement so its hard to compare one year to another. Still I agree that the introduction of DA and new ECNL teams has diluted the talent for the lower leagues. The introduction of DPL has also diluted the level of teams in the remaining SCDSL and CSL. The same could be said for how SCDSL hurt CSL when it was formed several years ago. At the end of the day though the fall leagues are only about 10 out of the 40 plus games that these teams play in a year. So there is still plenty of opportunity to play against each other. National Cup will also bring these three leagues together.

Which is why tournaments and showcases make it more interesting for us the viewers. The cross league/region/state play give us lots to talk about .