Get ready folks

[Scrub It Kook]

In some districts Middle Schools are now offering winter soccer. The teams are a combo of 6th, 7th, & 8th graders with a 10-12 game schedule. The tough part is the rosters were like 20 players last year and the games conflicted with State Cup. Not exactly their club team level but gets the middle schoolers used to playing with varying age groups before high school. Fortunately my sons team had mostly club players on it so it was a lot less jungle-ball-ish than I thought it was going to be.

 

[SuperSoccerStar]

My kid's a trapped player, so when ECNL pauses for high school soccer this November, the club are going to form a scratch team from the remaining middle schoolers on the 3 NL/RL teams and arrange scrimmages / tournaments, presumably against other scratch teams.

Assuming she is 2010 if your in SoCal they will probably do like they did last year and she would play with the 2011's where all the southwest clubs repeat the first half of league again. The entire 2011 and 2012 teams will need something to do from Mid Nov to Mid March. Hopefully they do that again.

 

[TeamDadJokes]

Trapped players have a birthdate that is in November or December. Because their birthday is beyond the school start cutoff date, which is usually November 1st (it used to be January 1st) they are not allowed to start school "early"; they would be 4 years old in Kindergarten for about half the year, then turn 5 like the majority of their classmates for the remaining half of the school year. Because the US Soccer year group cutoff date was changed to Jan 1st, and not Nov 1st, they are forced to play with a group of players that is in a Grade Year ahead of them, and forced to attended school a grade year behind the Calendar Year Group of their soccer teammates. This is why they term "Trapped Player" was created; they are literally caught in the red tape between two inflexible rules based on arbitrary dates.

You are right about how it works. Just want to clarify that these players would not start Kindergarten when they are 6. They would be 5 years old for about half the school year. My daughter is in this trapped player group, which I'm sure everyone already has figured out by my over involvement in this discussion. When she started Kindergarten (the first time) she was 4 years old, about two months into the school year, California changed the law regarding the cut-off date. The school gave us an option to disenroll her and come back next year, or keep her in the class under a "TK" enrollment. Either way she would have to attend Kindergarten the following year. Because she was already about two months in and enjoyed it, we decided to just keep her in school. Six of her classmates where in the same scenario. They all did Kindergarten twice; the school board refused to let them move into 1st grade with their first Kindergarten class.

That cut off got moved early to Sept 1st and August 1st in some areas. For soccer, the cut off was July 31st. So trapped players are typically born in September and later

 

[CAZZZ]

That cut off got moved early to Sept 1st and August 1st in some areas. For soccer, the cut off was July 31st. So trapped players are typically born in September and later

In this case, they can choose to play up (AKA their original team) if they want to stay in the same grade.

 

[TeamDadJokes]

In this case, they can choose to play up (AKA their original team) if they want to stay in the same grade.

Sure, but now they’re at a disadvantage playing against Sept and October kids a year older. It would be to their advantage in exposure to play with the younger team. For my 2010, I’m excited at the prospect she’d play NL as being one of the older kids rather than playing RL with mostly younger kids.

It was interesting because this video showed up on my instagram feed and now my kid has the chance of being on the earlier half if the year instead of the younger half:

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[rainbow_unicorn]

Can you please explain this to me like i am a child? I mean that seriously. When you say U15 is when trapped players are in MS and rest are in HS. And what is a trapped player vs a grade level classmate? Thank you.

Basically if your kid is a trapped player (Sep - Dec birthday) then you're forthe change to grade year.
If your kid is not a trapped player (Jan - Aug) then you're against the change to grade year.

 

[Jamisfoes]

Basically if your kid is a trapped player (Sep - Dec birthday) then you're forthe change to grade year.
If your kid is not a trapped player (Jan - Aug) then you're against the change to grade year.

The moral of the story is, don’t make sweet love to your wife until it’s middle of May. Anytime earlier than that you will have December babies.

 

[Messi>CR7]

Sure, but now they’re at a disadvantage playing against Sept and October kids a year older. It would be to their advantage in exposure to play with the younger team. For my 2010, I’m excited at the prospect she’d play NL as being one of the older kids rather than playing RL with mostly younger kids.

It was interesting because this video showed up on my instagram feed and now my kid has the chance of being on the earlier half if the year instead of the younger half:

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

Out of curiosity, I looked up the birth month of some GOATS and a few of my favorite players. There is no correlation between success and birth month (at least not for this small sample size of 12 world class players).

Pele – October
Maradona – October
Ronaldinho - March
Zidane – June
Bobby Firmino - October
Kante - March
Messi – June
CR7 – February
Mbappe - December
Kevin De Bruyne – June
Modrić – September
Yamal – July

 

[Thatonedad]

Out of curiosity, I looked up the birth month of some GOATS and a few of my favorite players. There is no correlation between success and birth month (at least not for this small sample size of 12 world class players).

Pele – October
Maradona – October
Ronaldinho - March
Zidane – June
Bobby Firmino - October
Kante - March
Messi – June
CR7 – February
Mbappe - December
Kevin De Bruyne – June
Modrić – September
Yamal – July

I agree. Won’t matter if they change things to SY or BY the top kids will always rise.

 

[Lou789]

Here is an example...

"Child" was born in 2008 and whether it's the public school birthday cut off rule, private school rules or personal preference the child didn't start kindergarten until they were 6 (when most were 5). Now Child begins to play soccer and since their birth year is 2008 they play with the 2008 group. Since child started school late, most everyone else on the team is in a grade older. When those teammates graduate in 2026, child will still have their Senior year to complete, since they're class of 2027. So, now Child will play with the 2009 age group. This is what a "trapped" player is. In ECNL, when child is in 8th grade, most of the team will be in HS and ECNL breaks for HS so Child is often left having to train on their own.

Did this make sense or did I make it more confusing?

Can’t a child train with another team younger during these months with the same club?

 

[Lou789]

Here's how it works with birth year...

Some of the players in say 6th-ish grade will be born before Dec 31st and others will be born after Jan 1st. If you're born before Dec 31st you'll likely be one of the younger players (in 6th grade) on a mostly 7th grade team. If you're born after Jan 1st you'll most likely be a 7th grade player playing on a 7th grade team. When the players are young it doesn't matter. When the players get older college recruiters are looking for players that will graduate on a certain year. The theory is that if teams are of mixed grade in school it causes confusion for recruiters that are only looking for players that will graduate on a certain year.

What ECNL has proposed is moving the cutoff for teams from Jan 1st to something like Aug 1st. With Aug 1st 99% of the players on a team would all be in the same grade in school.

A lot of my son’s friends who have summer birthdays and started kinder after they turned 6 that summer (back when they were younger). So most of those players will technically still be trapped even if the date gets moved to Aug 1st (if they have June and July birthdays). The summer birthdays kids that started school late will still be one grade lower if date gets moved. Right?

 

[Lou789]

If ECNL makes this change will other leagues follow like EA or SoCal?

Also, can’t a player on a team still play up to be with their previous teammates if the coach allows ?

 

[Carlsbad7]

If ECNL makes this change will other leagues follow like EA or SoCal?

Also, can’t a player on a team still play up to be with their previous teammates if the coach allows ?

This is the million dollar question.

I haven't seen any statements from leagues/groups other than ECNL on this subject.

Calender year grouping (what exists now) has benefits as well. It's how the rest of the world groups players and it's how National teams are grouped. By aligning to calender year grouping Anerican teams can travel to other countries and play against their teams because everyone is grouped the same way.

The main reason to group players by school grade is to better appeal to college scouts. If all the players on a team are the same grade in school they'll also graduate the same year from High School. This means recruiters could attend a showcase and all players they watch are available to be recruited to play on college teams.

Different people have different things that they'd like get out of soccer. Those that more highly value playing professionally generally prefer calender year grouping of players. Those that view soccer as a way to get into into college and/or potentially get college paid for tend to like grouping players by grade in school.

 

[Carlsbad7]

A lot of my son’s friends who have summer birthdays and started kinder after they turned 6 that summer (back when they were younger). So most of those players will technically still be trapped even if the date gets moved to Aug 1st (if they have June and July birthdays). The summer birthdays kids that started school late will still be one grade lower if date gets moved. Right?

What you're describing is one of the issues with grouping players by grade in school. There's no national standard cutoff date for students to attend school Most are around Aug but there are outliers. What this means is no matter what cutoff date ECNL chooses to define there will always be a few "trapped" players. To address this people will push for players to be grouped by school grade no matter what age. If this happens patents will start holding their kids back in school for an advantage in sports (ie 18 year old High School freshman)

See how it works? Pick your poison. You can't be everything to everyone. There's a reason clubs switched from school grade to calender year back in the day. Switching back to school year grouping just opens a different can of worms.

 

[Thatonedad]

We’re all in this together….

 

[Code]

That cut off got moved early to Sept 1st and August 1st in some areas. For soccer, the cut off was July 31st. So trapped players are typically born in September and later

This makes the problem much worse than expected. A Calendar Year Cut off date causes problems for nearly 1/3 of all youth players (Sept01-Dec31 is 1/3 of the year). Where a Grade Year Cut off date causes problems the handful of players that may go to play in Europe, and have a birthyear mismatch, which can easily be resolved by playing up.

 

[pitchplease]

This makes the problem much worse than expected. A Calendar Year Cut off date causes problems for nearly 1/3 of all youth players (Sept01-Dec31 is 1/3 of the year). Where a Grade Year Cut off date causes problems the handful of players that may go to play in Europe, and have a birthyear mismatch, which can easily be resolved by playing up.

which is why it is so odd that us club soccer and ecnl would switch back to school calendar groups. mls will always align with European models, just like DA did prior. no different than when you are getting call ups into ynt. it goes by birth year, not your school year. mls you can not play high school, and ecnl, etc you can. so maybe that is why the switch back?

 

[smom]

So what happens to kids with August birthdays who are currently not trapped? One post here said the cutoff will be 7/31? Others say graduation year. I have 2 August kids so wondering what the impact might be?

 

[Carlsbad7]

which is why it is so odd that us club soccer and ecnl would switch back to school calendar groups. mls will always align with European models, just like DA did prior. no different than when you are getting call ups into ynt. it goes by birth year, not your school year. mls you can not play high school, and ecnl, etc you can. so maybe that is why the switch back?

The reason for the ECNL pushing to switch back to grade defined groups is because they never wanted to switch to calendar year groups.

DA pushed for calendar year because US Soccer was using the USMNT and USWNT (who use calendar year grouping) + free soccer as incentives to get players to join the league. When DA first came out they were picking up clubs left and right. ECNL was 100% on the ropes + fighting for it's existence. Because of this they went along with DA / US Soccer and aligned to calendar year.

Now that DA has blown up + GA is just a copy of everything ECNL does. ECNL has decided that it's their turn to flex on the other leagues by going back to grouping by school grade.

It really is this simple. ECNLs focus has always been getting players onto college teams, that's it. US Soccer believes in getting players onto the USM/WNT first, then getting players playing professionally, and finally getting players onto college teams. GA is like ECNL and only focused on getting players on college teams. The problem with GA is US Soccer created it so even though it's a copy of ECNL the 100% college only pathway mentality isn't there.

Something that people aren't considering is ECNL pushing to change to grade based groups might force US Soccer to pull out the NWSL Next card. This is because they can't let ECNL dictate how everyone else functions.

 

[Code]

So what happens to kids with August birthdays who are currently not trapped? One post here said the cutoff will be 7/31? Others say graduation year. I have 2 August kids so wondering what the impact might be?

It's all speculation until the change is made and the date is set. If for example, the date is changed to Aug 1st, your players would have the option to play with their grade year group or play up a year with their birth year group.

 

[pitchplease]

The reason for the ECNL pushing to switch back to grade defined groups is because they never wanted to switch to calendar year groups.

DA pushed for calendar year because US Soccer was using the USMNT and USWNT (who use calendar year grouping) + free soccer as incentives to get players to join the league. When DA first came out they were picking up clubs left and right. ECNL was 100% on the ropes + fighting for it's existence. Because of this they went along with DA / US Soccer and aligned to calendar year.

Now that DA has blown up + GA is just a copy of everything ECNL does. ECNL has decided that it's their turn to flex on the other leagues by going back to grouping by school grade.

It really is this simple. ECNLs focus has always been getting players onto college teams, that's it. US Soccer believes in getting players onto the USM/WNT first, then getting players playing professionally, and finally getting players onto college teams. GA is like ECNL and only focused on getting players on college teams. The problem with GA is US Soccer created it so even though it's a copy of ECNL the 100% college only pathway mentality isn't there.

Something that people aren't considering is ECNL pushing to change to grade based groups might force US Soccer to pull out the NWSL Next card. This is because they can't let ECNL dictate how everyone else functions.

so spot on!! glad i only have 1 left in the youth system and in a different realm. i despised the girls DA. the divide it caused only made things worse, never better. i will never forget one of the last ynt camps my kid went into. the coach at the time, directly asked the girls during a meeting if they were planning on playing DA. to which was then said...we can't tell you that you have to, but we would prefer you to if there is a DA club in your area. worst decision ever. ecnl was a better pathway at the time, and still is on the girl's side. on the boy's side, it is the direct opposite. people often forget that these are still businesses at the end of the day. there concern is always the $$$$.