Get ready folks

watfly said:
While the odds are better with an academy since they theoretically have a more direct link to MLS teams (although I think that's overrated), why is it more relevant? You know full well MLSN's claimed mission is the pro-track, regardless of academy or not, that's part of the rationalization for the no HS play. With the exception of maybe the Union and RSL, the homegrown player track has largely been unsuccessful.

I'm curious though to see what the San Diego FC academy can do. The facility they're building is very impressive. Not sure though that the Right to Dream organization is any different than any other "pathway" snake oil salesmen.
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If colleges can offer scholarships, NIL, and players get paid isn't that the same thing as a pro contract just payed In a different way?

Top talent has already funneled into MLSN and by doing this they're all under contract. If colleges want to win they're going to need to pay to get the best players. The only thing that would be different between pro and college contracts is the scale of pay.

Once the foreign clubs figure out that college soccer is now a version of pro soccer they're going to charge transfer fees, etc. Players won't be allowed to just attend college for free anymore.

ECNL can try to undercut MLSN when marketing players to college but it won't work because this will just make MLSN clubs look harder for talent.
 
watfly said:
I guess I'm not understanding why being a trapped player is such an impediment to a kids development. It seems your major issue is that kids that are in 8th grade that play with 9 graders are at a big disadvantage. Kids play year round, I see having a few months off from game play as a benefit and is a great time to unwind and cross train.

Plus on the boys side, MLSN doesn't allow HS play, and any level of play below that is effectively recreational soccer (even some of MLSN is glorified rec).

As a matter of perspective, my son is a late September birthday and was a late boomer to boot. He was on the wrong end of the BY change, but it didn't have a negative impact on his soccer development. In fact, I'd argue he developed better skills because he was always going against bigger kids, whereas other kids would just rely on their size. He was identified for the MLSN late bloomer program but never participated. I think bio-banding is mostly BS. The problem with US youth soccer is player identification not RAE.

The perception of trapped players and RAE is far worse than the reality. In my experience their impact is negligible, and temporary at worst.
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Trapped players get stuck with two problems.

First is 8th grade. 3/4 of their team goes off to play high school, and they‘re stuck for 3 months practicing with youngers and playing no games.

Then, junior and Senior year, they’re on the giant u18/U19 team, which simply doesn’t have enough playing time to go around.
 
watfly said:
While the odds are better with an academy since they theoretically have a more direct link to MLS teams (although I think that's overrated), why is it more relevant? You know full well MLSN's claimed mission is the pro-track, regardless of academy or not, that's part of the rationalization for the no HS play. With the exception of maybe the Union and RSL, the homegrown player track has largely been unsuccessful.

I'm curious though to see what the San Diego FC academy can do. The facility they're building is very impressive. Not sure though that the Right to Dream organization is any different than any other "pathway" snake oil salesmen.
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Lots of people say lots of things. That’s why we have all the “elites” and “academies” in the soccer world. The reality is the regular next teams can’t play hs because they need to be available to play against the academy teams. Because of weather difference across the us, the high school season is not the same and the academies aren’t organized regionally like ecnl. the needs of the academy are what’s driving this train. Other than the pro pathway of getting picked up by academy coaches who see you in action, the regular next teams are there as fodder.
 
Zeke said:
Trapped players get stuck with two problems.

First is 8th grade. 3/4 of their team goes off to play high school, and they‘re stuck for 3 months practicing with youngers and playing no games.

Then, junior and Senior year, they’re on the giant u18/U19 team, which simply doesn’t have enough playing time to go around.
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Aren’t non-trapped players during their senior year also on giant u18/u19 teams?
 
Zeke said:
Trapped players get stuck with two problems.

First is 8th grade. 3/4 of their team goes off to play high school, and they‘re stuck for 3 months practicing with youngers and playing no games.

Then, junior and Senior year, they’re on the giant u18/U19 team, which simply doesn’t have enough playing time to go around.
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Zeke said:
yes. Trapped players get the big team twice, non-trapped get it once.
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So we should change the month cutoff for everyone because of an isolated 3 month issue that occurs for half the kids once in their soccer life? That's why I say the "trapped" player issue is grossly exaggerated. Their may be other reasons to change, but "trapped" players is not it.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
If colleges can offer scholarships, NIL, and players get paid isn't that the same thing as a pro contract just payed In a different way?

Top talent has already funneled into MLSN and by doing this they're all under contract. If colleges want to win they're going to need to pay to get the best players. The only thing that would be different between pro and college contracts is the scale of pay.

Once the foreign clubs figure out that college soccer is now a version of pro soccer they're going to charge transfer fees, etc. Players won't be allowed to just attend college for free anymore.

ECNL can try to undercut MLSN when marketing players to college but it won't work because this will just make MLSN clubs look harder for talent.
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I see it differently. Where is the money to pay for soccer players? Max they get a scholarship and maybe a stipend for room and board. Maybe a player that has a stronger social media following gets some bigger NIL money. People are already concerned that schools are going to drop soccer because they won't be able afford 24 scholarships.

I'm not disparaging college soccer, and a few college soccer players go on to play pro, but our system develops very few true professional players, particularly given the number of kids the participate in soccer.

IMO it would be a disaster if US Soccer took over college soccer. US Soccer couldn't work it's way out of a wet paper bag. As greedy as the NCAA is, they're an incredibly well oiled machine, particularly given its size and how many sports it administers.
 
Zeke said:
Trapped players get stuck with two problems.

First is 8th grade. 3/4 of their team goes off to play high school, and they‘re stuck for 3 months practicing with youngers and playing no games.

Then, junior and Senior year, they’re on the giant u18/U19 team, which simply doesn’t have enough playing time to go around.
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Don’t worry - the problem jr/sr year resolves itself. By spring, the giant team is scrounging up players just to have enough to play in games because so many of them have quit or stopped coming regularly.
 
watfly said:
I see it differently. Where is the money to pay for soccer players? Max they get a scholarship and maybe a stipend for room and board. Maybe a player that has a stronger social media following gets some bigger NIL money. People are already concerned that schools are going to drop soccer because they won't be able afford 24 scholarships.

I'm not disparaging college soccer, and a few college soccer players go on to play pro, but our system develops very few true professional players, particularly given the number of kids the participate in soccer.

IMO it would be a disaster if US Soccer took over college soccer. US Soccer couldn't work it's way out of a wet paper bag. As greedy as the NCAA is, they're an incredibly well oiled machine, particularly given its size and how many sports it administers.
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There's much more $$$ in college sports than people think or have been trained to think by NCAA. Also I'm not sure how great NCAA is at making money. I have an odd feeling that anyone who didn't pay their employees for services rendered would do very well.

I do agree that many non revenue sports will switch from supported by the college to club. What US Soccer appears to be trying to do is bridge the gap by helping to facilitate a college semi pro environment.

In the end colleges can still offer scholarships which when combined with a semi pro league isn't that bad. However the teams might be holding bake sales before and after home games
 
Carlsbad7 said:
Since we're into rumors did you see that there's a rumor that ACC, Big 10, and other college leagues are in talks to drop NCAA and align to US Soccer. If this happens they also intend to do year round soccer that mirrors MLS. Also MLS is changing to BY.

What this means is that college might completely change to BY.

If this is all true it explains why MLS and maybe GA arent commenting on BY to SY.

x.com

x.com x.com
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Apparently what was in the link about US Soccer taking over NCAA soccer is just the soccer version of what's going on in the college American football scene.

www.sportspromedia.com

College football ‘Super League’ proposed to replace NCAA and CFP - SportsPro

The competition has gained little support from conferences and schools so far to protect relationships with broadcasters.
www.sportspromedia.com www.sportspromedia.com

The only thing holding up college football from making the change is Media contracts with NBC, CBS, Fox. etc that go through 2030. Fortunately (or unfortunately) college soccer isnt burdened by media contracts into 2030.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
There's much more $$$ in college sports than people think or have been trained to think by NCAA. Also I'm not sure how great NCAA is at making money. I have an odd feeling that anyone who didn't pay their employees for services rendered would do very well.

I do agree that many non revenue sports will switch from supported by the college to club. What US Soccer appears to be trying to do is bridge the gap by helping to facilitate a college semi pro environment.

In the end colleges can still offer scholarships which when combined with a semi pro league isn't that bad. However the teams might be holding bake sales before and after home games
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Ask a college AD, not the NCAA, how much money is in college soccer. It's a loser. Thank football and basketball for the existence of college soccer. If football and basketball get profit sharing for its players that's even less money for the non-revenue sports.

How do you propose US Soccer fund a college league? Maybe some sponsorship, but ticket revenue is non-existent. Even the College Cup only draws a few hundred fans and that's mostly family. So yeah, bake sales might be the way to go.
 
watfly said:
Ask a college AD, not the NCAA, how much money is in college soccer. It's a loser. Thank football and basketball for the existence of college soccer. If football and basketball get profit sharing for its players that's even less money for the non-revenue sports.

How do you propose US Soccer fund a college league? Maybe some sponsorship, but ticket revenue is non-existent. Even the College Cup only draws a few hundred fans and that's mostly family. So yeah, bake sales might be the way to go.
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There's colleges that have so much money in investments (tax free) that they don't even need to charge tuition. (But the still do)

Colleges just need to provide facilities, a coach, scholorships to players, and people will continue to flock to the programs.
 
watfly said:
So we should change the month cutoff for everyone because of an isolated 3 month issue that occurs for half the kids once in their soccer life? That's why I say the "trapped" player issue is grossly exaggerated. There may be other reasons to change, but "trapped" players is not it.
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It’s absolutely over exaggerated. Even non “trapped” players that play ecrl ECNL have this problem. If your a younger team that has nobody high school aged your whole team is on break for 3 months. Theres is no reason to do this other than someone somewhere to make money. It’s pushed by that and the parents supporting it are the ones that have kids that are not good and will be able to move down a team. All the “trapped” players I’m around are in an amazing spot. They are getting an extra year of scouts watching them.
 
Carlsbad7 said:
There's colleges that have so much money in investments (tax free) that they don't even need to charge tuition. (But the still do)

Colleges just need to provide facilities, a coach, scholorships to players, and people will continue to flock to the programs.
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This is a small fraction of colleges - that doesn't necessarily overlap with the set of colleges that have competitive soccer programs. What would work for them would not work for the vast majority of schools.
 
watfly said:
Ask a college AD, not the NCAA, how much money is in college soccer. It's a loser. Thank football and basketball for the existence of college soccer. If football and basketball get profit sharing for its players that's even less money for the non-revenue sports.

How do you propose US Soccer fund a college league? Maybe some sponsorship, but ticket revenue is non-existent. Even the College Cup only draws a few hundred fans and that's mostly family. So yeah, bake sales might be the way to go.
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US Club Soccer already has an idea of the funding model. Look in the mirror and open your wallet Mr Dad and Mrs Mom.

That will be the idea until there is a scalable alternative? Ticket sales and TV ad revenue would require a College Soccer Culture - maybe that is what they try to build over time?
 
RandomSoccerFan said:
This is a small fraction of colleges - that doesn't necessarily overlap with the set of colleges that have competitive soccer programs. What would work for them would not work for the vast majority of schools.
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Ok, not all colleges have that kind of money but many do and most are doing better than people think.

Either way facilities already exist and scholorships don't cost colleges anything. Your only cost for running a sports team is the coach and coaching staff. Facilities maintence and ticket taker costs are distributed by all the different sports.

If college coaches and coaching staff are also able to teach classes Soccer costs offset depending on the number of students that take their classes.

There's all kinds of ways to make college soccer work even if it isn't revenue generating. Schools just don't want to consider tightening their belt or making changes.
 
RandomSoccerFan said:
No, they don't, and people exaggerate what could be done for the masses because of a select few that have unfathomable endowments.
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Ok, do you agree that both public and private colleges are tax exempt?

taxfoundation.org

The Big Business of Tax-Free College Sports

Moving from one athletic conference to another can mean millions in additional revenue sharing from lucrative broadcasting contracts and other revenue streams, all tax-free.
taxfoundation.org taxfoundation.org
 
Do you promise to use real numbers with sources if you want to have this debate about whether many colleges have extra money to spend on money-losing sports like soccer?
 
RandomSoccerFan said:
Do you promise to use real numbers with sources if you want to have this debate about whether many colleges have extra money to spend on money-losing sports like soccer?
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There is no such thing as "real numbers" colleges can present soccer revenue however they want. Theres nothing to debate. If colleges choose to fund sports teams they will. If they choose not to fund sports they won't. Just like today.
 
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