Game fixing

Zoro said:
Maybe you skipped over my last post (they are the .1%) or maybe you underestimate the brains of 17/18 year old women.
They don't need a coach at the game. If they do - they are not the .1%.
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Don't tell him that, because everyone knows they can't be in the .1% if they're not ECNL.
 
I had an opinion on this, but I'd rather keep my personal views off the map. All in all, this is a crappy situation for everyone involved and indirectly involved, and nothing can really be done now. While the Syracuse team had a chance to put fate in their own hands, it sucks that they weren't able to get through due to suspected collusion. It sucks for Carlsbad and their players because people will use this situation to negatively portray the club as a whole, and their players were unnecessarily brought into the public eye. It sucks for Ambassador for the same reason. It sucks for US Youth Soccer because they have to clean up a mess/their reputation even though this all wasn't directly their fault. It sucks for all of us because we wasted our time arguing over a cause that can't be fixed (unless firing a coach or disqualifying a team after the event already occurred qualifies as "fixing" the situation).

In the end, everyone learns from this, life goes on, and hopefully our kids continue to play "the beautiful game" as it was intended to be played.
 
LA Galaxy SD - GK Dad said:
Truth talking about respect again. Funny...again, here's one of his super respectful to the game quotes he posted earlier: "People still call it a "National Championship" when all the top teams are in ECNL?" Keep the respect rolling, Truth. One class act.
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Deflect, deny, distract. Keep it going.

The game film is bad. But what's worse is the club is basically selling out the players. If there was no collusion, then it's the players' fault, and the coach did nothing to correct.
 
Zoro said:
Maybe you skipped over my last post (they are the .1%) or maybe you underestimate the brains of 17/18 year old women.
They don't need a coach at the game. If they do - they are not the .1%.

After you asked for clarification on my question and I gave it - did you give me your response on what should be done and how you would justify it to, say USYSA?
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Again, I have been on the sidelines with both Carlsbad (LA, Galaxy, San Diego) coaches, and they coach the crap out of all their games. So this is the one game they stayed out of? Really?
 
iliv said:
Again, I have been on the sidelines with both Carlsbad (LA, Galaxy, San Diego) coaches, and they coach the crap out of all their games. So this is the one game they stayed out of? Really?
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What coaches do is not what I posted about. I posted that national finalist 17 year old girls don't need a coach in the game to figure out what my DD figured out at U12 tournaments. DD had yelling coaches and silent ones. Does not matter. But these finalists 17 year olds can't figure that out? Really?
 
Truth said:
An opportunity was taken away. It's not false. It may have been unlikely, but entirely possible if LA Galaxy SD decided to actually try to play.
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No way any team does this ... Not in 109° heat index when guaranteed a semifinal spot. That's the truth.
 
I have given a ton of thought to this and I am becoming more and more split on what I think.

Was it against any written rule/law of the game? That doesn't seem to be the case. So the Carlsbad/Ambassadors FC defenders can always fall back on this and as much as many of us don't like it, they are correct.

However, what really bothers me is the fact that I have not seen 1 person involved in the match that has come out and said - "Wow, we really didn't think it was a big deal, but in hindsight the match should not have been played in the manner it was. If we had to do it all over again, we would not do the same thing. I would like to apologize to our players, parents, club, other clubs involved in the competition for our actions. While we still contend that no rules were broken, the manner in which the match was played goes against everything we try and teach our youth players."

I could live with this - but no one has even come close to saying this. Instead both sides are coming out with basically, "Nothing to see here...this happens all the time...USYSA was fine with it."

I think the real story lies somewhere in the middle.
 
texanincali said:
I have given a ton of thought to this and I am becoming more and more split on what I think.

Was it against any written rule/law of the game? That doesn't seem to be the case. So the Carlsbad/Ambassadors FC defenders can always fall back on this and as much as many of us don't like it, they are correct.

However, what really bothers me is the fact that I have not seen 1 person involved in the match that has come out and said - "Wow, we really didn't think it was a big deal, but in hindsight the match should not have been played in the manner it was. If we had to do it all over again, we would not do the same thing. I would like to apologize to our players, parents, club, other clubs involved in the competition for our actions. While we still contend that no rules were broken, the manner in which the match was played goes against everything we try and teach our youth players."

I could live with this - but no one has even come close to saying this. Instead both sides are coming out with basically, "Nothing to see here...this happens all the time...USYSA was fine with it."

I think the real story lies somewhere in the middle.
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Exactly. Own up to your mistakes.

Instead, it's been a nonstop barrage of blaming Syracuse, denying anything is wrong, then ultimately blaming the players. Poor showing.
 
There certainly is some strategy and game planning involved, but calling it game fixing is quite the stretch. both teams just needed a tie, they earned the right to be in that position.
happens at all levels. remember the portugal/croatia match in the recent euros? yeah probably not, because portugal ended up winning it all and nobody cares how they did it.
that being said it would be hard to believe that the players did this on their own and the game "just fell that way", coaches are always in charge. No doubt the 2nd stringers would have loved to show off their goods while the 1s were being rested.
 
Doesn't "match fixing" usually involve gambling? Unless somebody had money betting that there would be a tie, then I think the term "matching fixing" or collusion are not the right terms here.
 
dfbmike said:
There certainly is some strategy and game planning involved, but calling it game fixing is quite the stretch. both teams just needed a tie, they earned the right to be in that position.
happens at all levels. remember the portugal/croatia match in the recent euros? yeah probably not, because portugal ended up winning it all and nobody cares how they did it.
that being said it would be hard to believe that the players did this on their own and the game "just fell that way", coaches are always in charge. No doubt the 2nd stringers would have loved to show off their goods while the 1s were being rested.
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One correction that seems minor but is actually very important. Neither team needed a tie. Carlsbad didn't need anything. They could have lost by a hundred and Carlsbad was still going through. Ambassadors didn't need a tie either. They simply needed to not lose by more than 3. At the start of the game, actually, the goal differential that 3rd place Syracuse needed to make up to go through was 7 goals. Syracuse got 3 of those goals on their own, but how could they expect a totally unmotivated Carlsbad team to make up the other 4 for them when Carlsbad was resting for the semis? Carlsbad's play in the first 2 games afforded them the right to simply rest. So what's the coaches' and teams' obligations here? To look out for their team and do what's in the team's best interest and the health of their players? Or look out for "the optics of the game?"

Had this game been reported correctly from the outset, this would never have been a story. "Watch two teams that are already through to the semi finals affect nothing in the tournament as they smartly rest their players in 110 degree heat."
 
LA Galaxy SD - GK Dad said:
One correction that seems minor but is actually very important. Neither team needed a tie. Carlsbad didn't need anything. They could have lost by a hundred and Carlsbad was still going through. Ambassadors didn't need a tie either. They simply needed to not lose by more than 3. At the start of the game, actually, the goal differential that 3rd place Syracuse needed to make up to go through was 7 goals. Syracuse got 3 of those goals on their own, but how could they expect a totally unmotivated Carlsbad team to make up the other 4 for them when Carlsbad was resting for the semis? Carlsbad's play in the first 2 games afforded them the right to simply rest. So what's the coaches' and teams' obligations here? To look out for their team and do what's in the team's best interest and the health of their players? Or look out for "the optics of the game?"

Had this game been reported correctly from the outset, this would never have been a story. "Watch two teams that are already through to the semi finals affect nothing in the tournament as they smartly rest their players in 110 degree heat."
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not at all disagreeing with you...non issue to me
 
LA Galaxy SD - GK Dad said:
One correction that seems minor but is actually very important. Neither team needed a tie. Carlsbad didn't need anything. They could have lost by a hundred and Carlsbad was still going through. Ambassadors didn't need a tie either. They simply needed to not lose by more than 3. At the start of the game, actually, the goal differential that 3rd place Syracuse needed to make up to go through was 7 goals. Syracuse got 3 of those goals on their own, but how could they expect a totally unmotivated Carlsbad team to make up the other 4 for them when Carlsbad was resting for the semis? Carlsbad's play in the first 2 games afforded them the right to simply rest. So what's the coaches' and teams' obligations here? To look out for their team and do what's in the team's best interest and the health of their players? Or look out for "the optics of the game?"

Had this game been reported correctly from the outset, this would never have been a story. "Watch two teams that are already through to the semi finals affect nothing in the tournament as they smartly rest their players in 110 degree heat."
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I guess you missing the most important point in all this - Spirit and Fairness of the GAME. Nobody cares about the end result or who needed what to advance. There are plenty options for the coach to rest his/her starters. I'm sure both teams had at least 18 players there and few of them don't get to play much in a REAL competitive game, so why not let them play? It's not about this at all, it's about the GAME itself. It was disrespectful to the GAME to come on the field and have this kind of circus. I don't believe for a second that it was initiated by the players without coaches being involved. Don't start throwing excuses - it was hot, it means nothing, resting players....Nonsense. This was the worst I've seen, and I've seen quite of few games at very different levels.
I coach myself and have been in exactly the same situations few times - 2 teams advancing anyway and the game don't matter, besides who is first or second. However, not for a second it crossed my mind that I will let my players perform this kind of spectacle. Normally in games like this, I let players play in different positions, work on certain things... few things I can think of. Using another game to get ready for the next without any pressure - perfect scenario for any coach. However your coach, and I'm guessing other team coach, decided to put up the side show....It's just wrong on all counts.
 
Eagle33 said:
I guess you missing the most important point in all this - Spirit and Fairness of the GAME. Nobody cares about the end result or who needed what to advance. There are plenty options for the coach to rest his/her starters. I'm sure both teams had at least 18 players there and few of them don't get to play much in a REAL competitive game, so why not let them play? It's not about this at all, it's about the GAME itself. It was disrespectful to the GAME to come on the field and have this kind of circus. I don't believe for a second that it was initiated by the players without coaches being involved. Don't start throwing excuses - it was hot, it means nothing, resting players....Nonsense. This was the worst I've seen, and I've seen quite of few games at very different levels.
I coach myself and have been in exactly the same situations few times - 2 teams advancing anyway and the game don't matter, besides who is first or second. However, not for a second it crossed my mind that I will let my players perform this kind of spectacle. Normally in games like this, I let players play in different positions, work on certain things... few things I can think of. Using another game to get ready for the next without any pressure - perfect scenario for any coach. However your coach, and I'm guessing other team coach, decided to put up the side show....It's just wrong on all counts.
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Well said. It defies logic to think that some are "ok" with what took place on that field.

I am trying to think of comparisons but even those are difficult to come up with - without being completely outlandish.

I'll give it a try none the less.
  • Last game of NBA season - Lakers vs Clippers - both teams already in playoffs - playoff seeds set - Kobe (or 10th guy on the bench) and CP3 (or 10th guy on the bench) pass back and forth for 48 minutes...this would NEVER happen
  • Last game of NFL season - Cowboys vs Giants - Cowboys are in playoffs and Giants are not - Romo hands off to running back who falls down 3 times - punt - Eli hands off to running back who falls down 3 times - punt...this would NEVER happen.
  • Last game of NHL season - Blues vs Sharks - Blues locked in a #3 seed and Sharks at #5 seed - puck drops - no one skates - pass back and forth - game over...this would NEVER happen
In reality this argument is going in circles and I don't see either side changing their opinion. However, no one with a competitive bone in their body would advocate for making a mockery of their sport.

I guess karma came back to bite both these teams - maybe that match broke a decent rhythm that each team had, maybe it didn't. In the end, I think most are glad neither one of these teams won the tournament.
 
texanincali said:
Well said. It defies logic to think that some are "ok" with what took place on that field.

I am trying to think of comparisons but even those are difficult to come up with - without being completely outlandish.

I'll give it a try none the less.
  • Last game of NBA season - Lakers vs Clippers - both teams already in playoffs - playoff seeds set - Kobe (or 10th guy on the bench) and CP3 (or 10th guy on the bench) pass back and forth for 48 minutes...this would NEVER happen
  • Last game of NFL season - Cowboys vs Giants - Cowboys are in playoffs and Giants are not - Romo hands off to running back who falls down 3 times - punt - Eli hands off to running back who falls down 3 times - punt...this would NEVER happen.
  • Last game of NHL season - Blues vs Sharks - Blues locked in a #3 seed and Sharks at #5 seed - puck drops - no one skates - pass back and forth - game over...this would NEVER happen
In reality this argument is going in circles and I don't see either side changing their opinion. However, no one with a competitive bone in their body would advocate for making a mockery of their sport.

I guess karma came back to bite both these teams - maybe that match broke a decent rhythm that each team had, maybe it didn't. In the end, I think most are glad neither one of these teams won the tournament.
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Not a good comparison of 18 year old girls -vs- professional teams with Vegas odds and legal gambling.
 
Eagle33 said:
...It's just wrong on all counts.
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Just asking you what I asked another poster - and got no answer. Two parts.
Given - no laws or rules were broken...

1 What would you do about what happened?

2 How would you justify your sanctions?
 
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