ECNL vs. DA turf war has created a 'toxic environment'

@offtopic - you are right about MVLA. When the Quakes were part of Force and my kid competed against Deza-coached and Montoya-coached teams, she knew (and the parents knew) our kids would face well-coached teams that were developing players. Bummer that half of that has gone away (no matter which program a kid is in - she would only play one of those two clubs).

Marin FC has been an NPL club and I'd expect it to continue to be an NPL club even while it embarks on an ECNL path (most of the NorCal ECNL clubs play NPL, some typically play up). I think Marin FC will get clobbered this year in ECNL (one reason is that the announcement came well after tryouts) but I think it is a great move and I think highly of the club. I believe it will attract a lot of players to future tryouts - next spring's will be interesting to watch.
 
Surf Zombie said:
It’s not fun. Looks great on her instagram account, so i guess there’s that. She’d have been better served putting the extra 100+ hours spent torturing herself into her shooting/finishing instead.
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Not fun either. However, to be the "best of the Best" you have to torture yourself. If I was an asshole I would have made her do it....lol
 
All good, fair points. I guess my real point here is that US Soccer, as the new entrant on the girls side, should have had something actually better before they fractured the youth landscape for girls soccer. And their use of the YNT as both carrot and stick against kids and families is a terrible thing for an organization that is a holder of the public trust in this space to do. If the vast, vast majority of GDA players are going to college rather than to the USWNT (and we all know that is the case), then what US Soccer did in creating the GDA wasn't necessary or helpful. That road was already paved. I would be fine with wresting power away from plenty of DOCs when it comes to the pathway for kids to colleges, and a more nationalized program that diminished that local influence (which can be just as tyrannical) would be welcome. But what we have now is dilutive, is confusing to families and contrary to what we are all supposed to be trying to do as a sports community (which, in my view, is to create a healthy, competitive environment to teach kids the intangibles of sports and give those with the talent and passion a platform to progress to higher levels). Is that what US Soccer did with the roll out of the GDA? Is that what they are doing now by excluding non-GDA kids from the YNT?
 
offtopic said:
I'm not sure who is claiming that DA is pulling the best players and has the best talent "hands down" at this point? I've talked to a couple college coaches who feel like they are pretty equivalent right now. Who is saying ECNL is dead or second tier (besides maybe some trolls)? I do think that ECNL would have been dead at this point if DA had phased out high school soccer over the course of a few years - many of the strongest ECNL teams declined the initial invitation for this very reason. Sort of sounds sort of like setting up a strawman there. My only point about looking at specific tournament results with small sample sizes is that you really can't read much into it beyond, "Hey both platforms did pretty well". I doubt anyone here would argue that a good DA (or even DPL) team will beat a weak ECNL team and that a good ECNL team would beat a weak DA team. So then it all gets into specific match-ups which is further muddied by the fact that there are new ECNL clubs (like Marin), new DA clubs (like Albion LV) clubs transitioning from one platform to another (like Eagles and others), clubs that have two ECNL squads (quite the coupe there...I'd be pissed if I was an ECNL club that turned down a DA invite) and clubs with both and nobody really knows how they are stacking their players(!). Trying to pull unbiased, useful and meaningful analytics from that mess would be difficult and you'd probably just end up with "yeah they both seem pretty good".

Do specific games and scores matter? I'm not really sure. About 5 years ago we had two older boys (up to U19) DA programs in the area (I think in this way the boys' model is better...narrow down the number of clubs that have them as they get older. this also frees more kids to play high school!). Team A always beat Team B and had a broader, more recognizable profile. Team B had a vision of how the game should be played and taught their players to relentlessly pursue that style. Upon high school graduation Team B had almost every player tied to scholarships at various levels while Team A had just a few. Again, Team A always won their head to head matches and placed higher in the league so there was a lot of confusion and upset parents who didn't really understand that winning soccer and soccer that is transferable to the next level isn't necessarily the same thing.

As for DA having a "superior developmental platform" I can't really comment except to say that they actually have a unified platform while ECNL doesn't really. This really just means the organization has a large degree of control from the top down - DA clubs are routinely evaluated/audited for coaching, coaching licenses, vision, organizational processes, play style, quality of facilities as well as the product on the field. If a club is out of compliance they lose their designation (happens frequently on the Boys side and less so on the Girls since they are trying to build it up). Representatives frequently show up at games to create quite detailed reports (which also include the referee performances). Is that better? Maybe...just depends how it is used. It is also useful to note that even a 'superior platform' doesn't mean superior development in every specific case. I think MVLAs player development is better than almost all DA programs (regardless of DA having a 'better platform'). I'd put Marin up against most of them as well and they weren't even an NPL team (I think...not sure on this point) until they just got offered ECNL.
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I would much rather get a report from a college coach telling us what our kids need to do to get a full ride. This report is a joke imo. Were the ones paying, unless of course your with a fully funded program :). The DA offers 25% guarantee starts and fully funded in some parts. Why walk from that when your club was not at "The Party" two years ago. Plus, the high school your kid goes to sucks so you don't give a flip. Every time I talk to a parent from the DA argument, they always say "HS Soccer sucks." I say, "where does your little sweet one go to HS?" "They go to so and so HS." I say, "oh." But if you could read my mind, "No wonder. Your HS sucks, really, it does."
 
dk_b said:
@offtopic - you are right about MVLA. When the Quakes were part of Force and my kid competed against Deza-coached and Montoya-coached teams, she knew (and the parents knew) our kids would face well-coached teams that were developing players. Bummer that half of that has gone away (no matter which program a kid is in - she would only play one of those two clubs).

Marin FC has been an NPL club and I'd expect it to continue to be an NPL club even while it embarks on an ECNL path (most of the NorCal ECNL clubs play NPL, some typically play up). I think Marin FC will get clobbered this year in ECNL (one reason is that the announcement came well after tryouts) but I think it is a great move and I think highly of the club. I believe it will attract a lot of players to future tryouts - next spring's will be interesting to watch.
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Thanks for the clarification re/Marin...wasn't sure and was too lazy to look it up. They fill a need up in that area and I wouldn't hesitate to have my child check them out.
 
Ellejustus said:
I would much rather get a report from a college coach telling us what our kids need to do to get a full ride. This report is a joke imo. Were the ones paying, unless of course your with a fully funded program :). The DA offers 25% guarantee starts and fully funded in some parts. Why walk from that when your club was not at "The Party" two years ago. Plus, the high school your kid goes to sucks so you don't give a flip. Every time I talk to a parent from the DA argument, they always say "HS Soccer sucks." I say, "where does your little sweet one go to HS?" "They go to so and so HS." I say, "oh." But if you could read my mind, "No wonder. Your HS sucks, really, it does."
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So you are confirming their reasoning for staying DA? I'm not sure why we'd put down anyone's high school...most students just go to the one in their prescribed area and they (nor their parents) have any control over their soccer program. I think a better argument is that high school can be really fun even if it isn't the greatest.

Unfortunately, most high school soccer sucks and I think that those who do play for good high schools lose sight of that. Many high schools will have a range of players all the way from ECNL studs down to rec (or rec+) sorts of players on the same team. Some will have significantly less than that. Even the teams that are tremendous (and I have a couple in my area) typically just try to out-athlete their opponent (granted they will frequently have good to great technical skills they developed through club training). Nothing wrong with that and the kids seem to be having a blast.
 
offtopic said:
So you are confirming their reasoning for staying DA? I'm not sure why we'd put down anyone's high school...most students just go to the one in their prescribed area and they (nor their parents) have any control over their soccer program. I think a better argument is that high school can be really fun even if it isn't the greatest.

Unfortunately, most high school soccer sucks and I think that those who do play for good high schools lose sight of that. Many high schools will have a range of players all the way from ECNL studs down to rec (or rec+) sorts of players on the same team. Some will have significantly less than that. Even the teams that are tremendous (and I have a couple in my area) typically just try to out-athlete their opponent (granted they will frequently have good to great technical skills they developed through club training). Nothing wrong with that and the kids seem to be having a blast.
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Does HS basketball suck?
 
ToonArmy said:
In OC yes unless your Mater Dei. But you don't have to worry about some 200lb ayso Sunday leaguer hacker trying to take out your legs or decleat you so you land on your head. Joking sort of
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Wrong. HS basketball is awesome in OC. You dont see AAU kids skipping HS Hoops. All hoop teams have hackers as does soccer. Kurt Rambis ring a bell? FIBA doesnt go into AAU arena and take over and tell the hoopsters no HS. It wouldn't fly.
 
I'm talking about talent. Maybe in general it doesn't suck it's fun and competitive sure amongst other oc schools.. I'm just saying it ain't a basketball mecca by no means other than mater dei not like LA and not like Football Baseball girls soccer and just about every other sport where D1 colleges are littered with players from OC. Basketball not at all cause the talent kinda sucks and I'm not trashing the kids it's my sport that grew up playing in OC if be trashing myself and I think I'm decent haha just not above 6 foot tall and only enough of a vert to grab the rim at 18. And different kind of hacking when the ball is played with your feet with cleats on.

I get your point about AAU and I knew that's where you were going and I agree it's stupid that USA soccer steps in and makes that rule but I also don't fault a kid for not wanting to play it. And I also don't blame a kid for choosing not to play it even if they want to when the choice is play at a DA club near their house with a coach they love kids they love ect or play on another team just to play hs.

And some hs soccer is pure hoofball and even worse bullyball. Not all of us can live next to a cif d1 HS there are a lot of divisions and levels of players out there
 
Ellejustus said:
Wrong. HS basketball is awesome in OC. You dont see AAU kids skipping HS Hoops. All hoop teams have hackers as does soccer. Kurt Rambis ring a bell? FIBA doesnt go into AAU arena and take over and tell the hoopsters no HS. It wouldn't fly.
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I ran into Kurt rambis having lunch in between games at an la galaxy sb tournament. He didnt acknowledge me when I called him superman. But I did get a photo with Steve Nash at a different soccer tournament and even got a photo with Kobe at a soccer game in Irvine years ago.
 
Broken record here: HS hoops is universally a winter sport. That is NOT the case with HS soccer. Makes sense, right? Basketball is indoor so perfect for winter in most of the country while soccer does not really work like that. I am not going to defend US Soccer/GDA but HS soccer won't happen unless (i) US Soccer agrees to decentralize scheduling (like ECNL does, limiting to showcases and playoffs) or (ii) US Soccer agrees to a special "winter only" exemption to allow players in winter HS soccer states to play HS soccer (which, of course, won't happen b/c that unduly punishes a bit less than 90% of the states).

It is interesting to see how college recruiting has changed throughout HS sports. Other than football, HS sports is much less important than AAU, alphabet soup soccer, travel baseball, water polo, swimming, tennis, golf, etc. Elite players on those sports can skip HS and have no reduction in opportunities. And even football is changing - 7v7 and summer camps are gaining in importance and some kids are getting offers w/o coaches ever seeing them in person in a real game. HS football is still important but in 10 years, who knows?
 
Dof3 said:
All good, fair points. I guess my real point here is that US Soccer, as the new entrant on the girls side, should have had something actually better before they fractured the youth landscape for girls soccer. And their use of the YNT as both carrot and stick against kids and families is a terrible thing for an organization that is a holder of the public trust in this space to do. If the vast, vast majority of GDA players are going to college rather than to the USWNT (and we all know that is the case), then what US Soccer did in creating the GDA wasn't necessary or helpful. That road was already paved. I would be fine with wresting power away from plenty of DOCs when it comes to the pathway for kids to colleges, and a more nationalized program that diminished that local influence (which can be just as tyrannical) would be welcome. But what we have now is dilutive, is confusing to families and contrary to what we are all supposed to be trying to do as a sports community (which, in my view, is to create a healthy, competitive environment to teach kids the intangibles of sports and give those with the talent and passion a platform to progress to higher levels). Is that what US Soccer did with the roll out of the GDA? Is that what they are doing now by excluding non-GDA kids from the YNT?
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But is YNT really only for GDA players as I saw US soccer scouts at ECNL games at Surf watching and asking for rosters?
 
SoccerMom05 said:
But is YNT really only for GDA players as I saw US soccer scouts at ECNL games at Surf watching and asking for rosters?
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No question that they have slowed down taking non-GDA players, even though they continue to scout. They will admit that, I believe, and a close read of YNT camp rosters of the last two years will bear it out.
 
dk_b said:
Broken record here: HS hoops is universally a winter sport. That is NOT the case with HS soccer. Makes sense, right? Basketball is indoor so perfect for winter in most of the country while soccer does not really work like that. I am not going to defend US Soccer/GDA but HS soccer won't happen unless (i) US Soccer agrees to decentralize scheduling (like ECNL does, limiting to showcases and playoffs) or (ii) US Soccer agrees to a special "winter only" exemption to allow players in winter HS soccer states to play HS soccer (which, of course, won't happen b/c that unduly punishes a bit less than 90% of the states).

It is interesting to see how college recruiting has changed throughout HS sports. Other than football, HS sports is much less important than AAU, alphabet soup soccer, travel baseball, water polo, swimming, tennis, golf, etc. Elite players on those sports can skip HS and have no reduction in opportunities. And even football is changing - 7v7 and summer camps are gaining in importance and some kids are getting offers w/o coaches ever seeing them in person in a real game. HS football is still important but in 10 years, who knows?
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Texas never
 
Ellejustus said:
Playing what? Juggling is a game? I bet you $1 if you let the girls do what they want they wont spend that much time juggling a soccer ball.
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Touching a ball on their own time. I bet you $1 back a kid that can’t juggle doesn’t play outside of structured play time that their parent set up for them.
 
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