ECNL vs. DA turf war has created a 'toxic environment'

espola said:
At the risk of being labeled a contrarian, when was the last time you saw juggling of more than two times in a serious game?
Click to expand...

I visited many a soccer thread and this debate about juggling is as old as time and so is the above defense of not juggling.

First touch matters and there are lots of ways to develop first touch. There are very few things that require less space, equipment and people to develop first touch than juggling.

If wall ball is your thing have at it. If you have 6 kids that can kick the ball around with each other in the back yard, have at it.
 
offtopic said:
Unfortunately, most high school soccer sucks and I think that those who do play for good high schools lose sight of that. Many high schools will have a range of players all the way from ECNL studs down to rec (or rec+) sorts of players on the same team. Some will have significantly less than that. Even the teams that are tremendous (and I have a couple in my area) typically just try to out-athlete their opponent (granted they will frequently have good to great technical skills they developed through club training). Nothing wrong with that and the kids seem to be having a blast.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that HS is about having fun. However, its nowhere near as “bad” as people claim it to be. Not sure how many HS games those people have watched (recently). Not ONCE did I see dirty play/fouls or “hack” jobs. And my dd’s HS team is D5, not a very competitive league, and with a couple of teams that had no club players.

Having heard about how “bad” HS soccer was from previous posts before my dd’s started HS, I was pleasantly surprised at how well her team played. Yes, there were a couple (1 or 2) teams that were not that good, but all the others actually “played” soccer. It wasn’t kickball. Now was it as fast and error free as top club teams? No, not consistently.
 
espola said:
At the risk of being labeled a contrarian, when was the last time you saw juggling of more than two times in a serious game?
Click to expand...
When my kid went to the TCs a few times and I saw all the development going on, I knew my kid was in trouble. My kid can be a little cocky and she got humbled when asked to start juggling in front of the YNT scout, dear in headlight moment.....lol. I had a fun ride in the car telling her "I told you so." I tried to get her to do the "extra" practicing. She was told her first year of the DA (after helping her team win a National Championship the year b4) she was inconsistent and doesn't show up fired up to the "developmental games" and doesn't do extra practice outside of the four day commitment. Guilty as charged. Its all about development and I get it now. My dd will run through a freaking wall to win a game that means something. Director of the Youth National team said ECNL, High School and College Soccer are gaming leagues. My daughter shows up for the big games, kinda like "big game James." A certain turbo and hunger only comes out in those situations. I hope a college will look past juggling and see her other qualities. "Developmental games" and "showcase games" suck for her and to be candid, they suck for me to. Boring..........hate to say it but I see a lot of kids trying to look good in front of the scouts and coaches and forgetting that they have 10 other teammates on the filed.
 
Mullet said:
I visited many a soccer thread and this debate about juggling is as old as time and so is the above defense of not juggling.

First touch matters and there are lots of ways to develop first touch. There are very few things that require less space, equipment and people to develop first touch than juggling.

If wall ball is your thing have at it. If you have 6 kids that can kick the ball around with each other in the back yard, have at it.
Click to expand...

I prefer two players standing about 6 feet apart speed-passing a ball back and forth across one of the many lines available, keeping the ball low, alternating both feet. In a long enough session without losing the rhythm, both players win.

The image that comes to mind is the 12-year-old boy or girl who has learned how to do a stepover and seems surprised in its first usage in a game that the defender in his or her face is not as polite as the orange cone was.
 
Mullet said:
I visited many a soccer thread and this debate about juggling is as old as time and so is the above defense of not juggling.

First touch matters and there are lots of ways to develop first touch. There are very few things that require less space, equipment and people to develop first touch than juggling.

If wall ball is your thing have at it. If you have 6 kids that can kick the ball around with each other in the back yard, have at it.
Click to expand...
Juggling is good. Working on first touch is always good.

If you think you know better than Maradona, by all means don't bother with juggling (watch it with the sound on). :)
 
500 might be a bit of overkill. If you can get to 100 every time you kick up a ball, the other 400 touches can probably be used for something more constructive.
Imagine you are trying to get to 500. And you keep getting to 450 and you drop the ball. I guess getting that last 50 shows true dedication, but if you are getting 450 with consistency, that's probably good enough.
 
espola said:
I prefer two players standing about 6 feet apart speed-passing a ball back and forth across one of the many lines available, keeping the ball low, alternating both feet. In a long enough session without losing the rhythm, both players win.

The image that comes to mind is the 12-year-old boy or girl who has learned how to do a stepover and seems surprised in its first usage in a game that the defender in his or her face is not as polite as the orange cone was.
Click to expand...

Sure, but you still need another player and as good as passing the ball back and forth can be it still requires the other person. So now you need two motivated players.

Juggling only needs a little space and a ball.

I have to laugh about the stepover or scissors comment. At the U9 and U10 ages kids perform those moves like they are an enchantment and are always surprised to see that the defender did not disappear in a puff of smoke by performing the move.
 
Mullet said:
Sure, but you still need another player and as good as passing the ball back and forth can be it still requires the other person. So now you need two motivated players.

Juggling only needs a little space and a ball.

I have to laugh about the stepover or scissors comment. At the U9 and U10 ages kids perform those moves like they are an enchantment and are always surprised to see that the defender did not disappear in a puff of smoke by performing the move.
Click to expand...

In my own training, I used the corner of two walls on my patio so I would usually get some kind of playable return even on a crappy pass. I also used a variety of different size balls, including tennis balls and the like.
 
Messi>CR7 said:
Juggling is good. Working on first touch is always good.

If you think you know better than Maradona, by all means don't bother with juggling (watch it with the sound on). :)
Click to expand...
"Green mangoes are for power, ripe mangoes are for finesse."*

*from that Pele movie, no idea if it is true.
 
timbuck said:
500 might be a bit of overkill. If you can get to 100 every time you kick up a ball, the other 400 touches can probably be used for something more constructive.
Imagine you are trying to get to 500. And you keep getting to 450 and you drop the ball. I guess getting that last 50 shows true dedication, but if you are getting 450 with consistency, that's probably good enough.
Click to expand...

What part of 500 did you not understand?
 
The juggling debate draws me in every time. I know I posted something similar before but...There is a saying that says not every great juggler is a great soccer player, but every great soccer player is a great juggler. It is the first and last thing I emphasize with my kids (06 girl and 2011 boy). Of course working on juggling is not done so that a player can juggle in a game, but as others here have said, it is done to develop "touch". A great soccer player puts the ball exactly where they mean to with virtually every touch. This is what juggling develops; control and mastery of the ball. There are many ways to increase the challenge of juggling as your players develops. From simply keeping the ball off the ground with strong foot, to alternating feet, to week foot only. Make a small square area and require the player to stay in it. Stand on a line and stay on line while juggling. My DDs task was to complete the "ladder" before turning 10. 1 right, 1 left, 2 right, 2 left and so on up to 10 and back down to 1. This laid a solid foundation. There are also different types of juggling, little touches done with the flat area on top of toes (street soccer juggling?) vs touches with laces, ankle locked. Both great, but I believe that touches with the laces, ankle locked where the objective is to either have no spin on the ball, or even a little forward rotation is what many scouts look for in terms of technique. As always, there are many different paths to common outcomes, and everyone is free to choose their own, but for me and my little ones, a focus on juggling has always come first and it has shown great dividends when it comes to playing the game on the field.
 
Messi>CR7 said:
Juggling is good. Working on first touch is always good.

If you think you know better than Maradona, by all means don't bother with juggling (watch it with the sound on). :)
Click to expand...
If you want to be the best in the world or just be the best on your team, than hell ya, you bette
dk_b said:
Back when Deza (from Quakes) ran the Northern California NTCs, the girls had to juggle-walk the field (both directions) before they could start practicing (keepers, too). This is when they were 13 or 14. High stress for the first timers.
Click to expand...
She played against that team and the new Quakes. Lots of studs and commits to UCLA. My dd had a blast playing against them and beating them, scoring 2 important goals. I will confess. My dd tried to hide the fact she was poor at best with juggling at her first TC. She was nervous in that environment. If it mattered to her I'm sure she would have practice at it. Still hasn't. I agree its very important to be the best. My dd doesn't want to be the best. She does want to play her best against the best. Hopefully she will get a chance to beat those girls again when she plays against them when her college plays UCLA :)
 
Real Deal said:
Looks from the picture that she was an early bloomer, too.

Have to wonder, with only one "clear pathway" (ODP), how many potentially great players were overlooked. It's too subjective a sport and, nowadays, too huge a sport in this country, to have only one pathway with its own tastes and politics IMHO. Besides, that particular pathway still has a large amount of influence.
Click to expand...

The ODP pathway was good because it brought together all players from the same federation to train together and it did a fairly good job of not only identifying players (the pool had players come in and out from most of the clubs in the region) but also letting those players train together regularly. With ODP very few players were missed in our region (CalSouth). Having competition between the state federations and between the regions further helped to identify top players. ECNL and the GDA both have made this level of opportunity and cooperation within and outside of a state federation just doesn't happen anymore and the game is worse for it. The top team used to get crowned at the USYS National Championships and there was no debate that they were the best team. Now with 4 different championships you have 4 teams that can claim that mantle and none of them are as good as the previous unified USYS Champions were.

Divide and conquer isn't a great plan. The old CSL Premier teams would kick the crap out of the current GDA crop simply due to a more concentrated talent pool. In SoCal there used to be 10 teams in Premier and they were clearly the best teams and promotion and relegation insured that it stayed that way. But of course, the "soccer people" came up with a better way that has only succeeded in splintering the gaming circuit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top