ECNL vs. DA turf war has created a 'toxic environment'

Soccerfan2 said:
Jellybelly’s point was that there isn’t data to back up the claim that more ACL injuries happen in the last 5 minutes of the game. I agree. You are attempting to extrapolate a loooonnngggg way here. From injury risk to injury, from hamstring strain to ACL tear, from pro to youth, from statistically insignificant to significant. Even if there was clear science to show that ACL tears are more frequent in the last part of a game, how do you know that subbing practices are significantly different from one league to the other? Doesn’t it seem that the top players usually play full games regardless of whether there are sub rules in their league to prevent re-entry or not?

You feeling something is fairly obvious is much different than having well established science to support it.
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Again, my point is that end of the half (both) is a time period in which players have an increased risk for injury. This is true for both professional and elite youth players. Have a read: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5013706/ This is one of the conclusions reached by a team reviewing 18 studies that met a rigorous inclusion criteria.

There are other factors that contribute to injury risk also, for example, match exposure is higher risk than practice exposure. A below is for elite youth, B below is for professional.

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jellybelly71 said:
You have posted numerous times referencing ACL risk as it pertains to DA vs ECNL vs HS vs other. You have also posted your sources on occasion (I've read them all.) No doubt, female athlete ACL injury rates are alarming and we should do everything possible to reduce those rates. Unfortunately, you have consistently drawn false conclusions from the sources you've listed, many of which were poorly designed or small case studies from which no conclusions can be drawn. Having said that, I'd like to see your source in reference to your claim about the increased rate of ACL injury in the final 5 minutes of each half. Please post it. Cheers to you in advance if your data are solid and actionable. Needless to say, I am dubious. Regardless, extrapolating any such data to DA v ECNL v HS is ludicrous unless ECNL and HS coaches are resting every player every half (which, of course, they are not.)

Neil deGrasse (smart dude): "It is okay to not know. But when you don't know, yet think you know, and wield power in that ignorance, it's a recipe for disaster."
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Your DeGrasse quote is cute, but here’s the rub. Let’s assume I’m wrong and playing 90 straight minutes has no effect on ACL risk. If kids can get subbed in and out like in ECNL, no one more likely to tear their ACL and there is no “recipe for disaster.” But let’s say I’m right. Then it is your ignorance that is “a recipe for disaster.” In other words, you are supporting taking risks that are potentially catastrophic because you don’t know, while I’m doing the opposite (not taking risks). You are so stupid you can’t even understand what DeGrasse is trying to tell you.

Regardless, I have already posted many studies, and I’m not going to do this again with another flat earther/anti-vaxer/science denier. I’ll just wait until we get to “I told you so.”
 
sdb said:
This is factually correct. There is data from many sources that shows that the risk of injury increases significantly at the end of each half. Substitution rules that limit subbing and prevent coaches from getting players off the field at the end of the half ultimately increase the likelihood of players getting hurt. There's really no reason to treat youth players like professional players.
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To state that players are more at risk of tearing an ACL at the end of a half is factually incorrect and misleading. Please see this study from Tim Hewett, one of the foremost experts on ACL injuries which shows the opposite of what you are stating.https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-019-01134-5
 
The study’s conclusion: “On the contrary, fatigued athletes appear to land with greater peak knee and hip flexion angles, and lower landing forces than unfatigued athletes—all of which are considered favourable movement strategies for reducing ACL loading. These data support recent analyses demonstrating no relationship between player workload in training and competition and the occurrence of ACL injury in sport.”
 
I just counted on my 10 little fingers ten girls my dd played with or against that have torn ACLs. I just counted 10 other girls who have quit soccer altogether. Last of the 1 minute 10 count, I know 10 other girls who had or have concussions and 10 other girls who have or had depression, broken knee cap, broken wrist and so on. That took me less the(a)n 1 (one) minute to do just now. Theirs your're're're're test. These girls were abused (not all) and over worked and their older sista's who had gone before them have been treated like poop from the pimps and pricks who have been running the show in some places. Favoritism, being yelled at, groomed, Lied too on numerous occasions ((big lies too)), tricked, deceived, played, blacklisted, black balled among some of the threats. Also, manipulated to "shoot for the stars" and go pro ((all in, full time, everyday, all day soccer)) at a cost of $15,000 to the pay to play customer ((99% of us)) (according to Hope Solo). Times (x) 4(for, four, fore) years equals(=) $60,000 to pay and play so you can tell everyone your dd is participating in the G D A league, that is full of Elitist who think there life is better then every one else. If your dd can escape major injury ((just like some have just escaped their SAT score pressure)), she get's to go play in college. Most of us will have to pay to play in college two. Nothing wrong with that. No full rides in college just like no full rides at Beach. Well, maybe one or two true Unicorns get the full ride in college. $ixty thousand big ones to risk all these injuries, bad apples, pitfalls & dangers just to help the top top .1% of the goats get on the YNT and go pro? If your dd made the YNT congratulations. You also owe all of us one big "Thank You" for making us travel around the country promoting this circus. All for the .1%ters. Your welcome btw :). However, I'm second guessing my decisions more & more as I sit in my house all day and all night wondering how the hell all this happened. Play local so we can all stay & play local. Locals only!!!!!!
 
Ellejustus said:
I just counted on my 10 little fingers ten girls my dd played with or against that have torn ACLs. I just counted 10 other girls who have quit soccer altogether. Last of the 1 minute 10 count, I know 10 other girls who had or have concussions and 10 other girls who have or had depression, broken knee cap, broken wrist and so on. That took me less the(a)n 1 (one) minute to do just now. Theirs your're're're're test. These girls were abused (not all) and over worked and their older sista's who had gone before them have been treated like poop from the pimps and pricks who have been running the show in some places. Favoritism, being yelled at, groomed, Lied too on numerous occasions ((big lies too)), tricked, deceived, played, blacklisted, black balled among some of the threats. Also, manipulated to "shoot for the stars" and go pro ((all in, full time, everyday, all day soccer)) at a cost of $15,000 to the pay to play customer ((99% of us)) (according to Hope Solo). Times (x) 4(for, four, fore) years equals(=) $60,000 to pay and play so you can tell everyone your dd is participating in the G D A league, that is full of Elitist who think there life is better then every one else. If your dd can escape major injury ((just like some have just escaped their SAT score pressure)), she get's to go play in college. Most of us will have to pay to play in college two. Nothing wrong with that. No full rides in college just like no full rides at Beach. Well, maybe one or two true Unicorns get the full ride in college. $ixty thousand big ones to risk all these injuries, bad apples, pitfalls & dangers just to help the top top .1% of the goats get on the YNT and go pro? If your dd made the YNT congratulations. You also owe all of us one big "Thank You" for making us travel around the country promoting this circus. All for the .1%ters. Your welcome btw :). However, I'm second guessing my decisions more & more as I sit in my house all day and all night wondering how the hell all this happened. Play local so we can all stay & play local. Locals only!!!!!!
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Wow! That’s some serious scrilla, scratch, paper my friend. I have a question for those who say their goal is only college.

How is paying 60k over 4 years to enhance your kids chances of getting into college any different than the other parents that were buying test scores etc. in the admissions scandal?
 
Throwback Thursday​

Anybody what to play? Today's topic, "The Birth Year Change" It's time we all talk about this. This decision was not debated and the folks at USSF would not listen to the major majority. Like 80% against!!!! I want to investigate this deeper. Where are the masterminds behind forcing this on everyone and who are they? Are they still working at headquarters in Chicago? Was it the Technical Directors and the Coaches from England and the Netherlands who forced this "mandate" on the whole country?

Check this from one club: This is like one of hundreds out there. I did my research :)

Major Change Mandated by US Soccer: How calendar year registration could impact your child from a team formation standpoint (beginning this Fall 2017 season & beyond) Last year US Soccer, the national entity which governs soccer in our country, established a mandate which requires all soccer organizations in the US to use a player's calendar birth year to determine his/her soccer league's age group. Based on that, this document is intended to help you understand the implications of that change, and to provide answers to some questions that may come up. Key Things to Know and Understand: 1. US Soccer has mandated that all soccer leagues in this country must register players using a calendar year system, not a school year system. 2. Teams that have been formed in the past can remain together, but it possibly would require some players on the team to play up into an older division (something which may be extremely common throughout the league but may have developmental implications). 3. Although MTsc U has been opposed to this change from the time it was made known, the deadline for complying with this mandate is the Fall of 2017. Whereas most clubs made the change in the Fall of 2016, MTsc U has waited until the last possible moment to comply. Our Club had hoped that all the national attention and petitions that were made by many clubs when this rule was first announced would cause US Soccer to make a change to their original mandate as it applies to recreational players. However, this has not happened. So although we do not agree with this change, we must ultimately conform. As a result, MTsc United is the last known club in eastern Oklahoma to comply. Again, this change is mandated by US Soccer, and all regional and community soccer clubs in Oklahoma and around the country are obligated to comply.
MacDre said:
Wow! That’s some serious scrilla, scratch, paper my friend. I have a question for those who say their goal is only college.

How is paying 60k over 4 years to enhance your kids chances of getting into college any different than the other parents that were buying test scores etc. in the admissions scandal?
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I'm one big tagline and it just runs and runs. Imagine if I was able to actually talk when I was 5? I would have been moved up a few class levels I bet because I'm actually not dumb. I had one asshole who ran a company I helped grow. He paid me well but he always told me I didnlt do much after I got everything set up for his business with all my ideas. he would tell me, "Your just an ideas guy." WTH, just a guy with some ideas in his brain that roll out of my mouth every second.
 
So ECNL is free and there's no travel with associated costs? Pay to play is not a GDA issue, it's a club soccer issue.
 
FIVE THINGS TO KNOW ABOUT BIRTH YEAR REGISTRATION

AUGUST 1 2017​

Beginning on Aug. 1, 2017, the way in which youth players in the United States register for youth soccer teams will be based on their year of birth. This new standard will help create clarity,((No, it created confusion and some clubs begged you not to do this for the .1%ters)) improve understanding about developmental progress and enhance playing environments as a part of the U.S. Soccer Player Development Initiatives (PDI’s).

Here are five things you should know about the new registration rules to age groups.

What is birth year registration?

Currently, youth players in the United States sign up for same-age group clubs and teams based on the traditional calendar of a school year, from August to July. Under this system of registration, a player born before August 1, 2007 would have played in a U-11 age group (players age 11 and under) for the upcoming 2017-2018 season, while a player born after August 1, 2007 would have played in a U-10 age group.
Beginning August 1, for the upcoming 2017-2018 season, any player born from January 1 to December 31 of 2007 will play in a U-11 age group. Birth year will be the only determinant for youth team registration. There will no longer be a mid-year cut-off to decide in which age group a player will play.
The United States and Canada have been the only FIFA member nations to use this model.
This PDI brings youth soccer in the United States in line with the rest of the world by using a normal ((and calendar year is is abnormal?))
calendar year of each player’s birth year to determine their age group. ((What is the opposite of normal? Abnormal, adjective. not normal, average, typical, or usual; deviating from a standard))

The change in age group registration aims to support player development ((not my child)) and goes hand-in-hand with the new standards for small-sided games ((so all this was done to teach small sided game?)). Using birth year registration ensures that players are training and playing in the proper ((and the improper way is this: not in accordance with accepted rules or standards, especially of morality or honesty.)) age group, each with their own developmental needs. ((oh I see)

The new standard also strives to lessen relative age effect (RAE). RAE is a selection bias towards players born earlier in the calendar year. Players born in early months are naturally older and more mature, but not necessarily better players. While the change to birth year registration won’t completely solve the problem, it will make it easier to identify and understand. (The RAE reason)

Easier to Understand and Creates Awareness ((and cause a mass chaotic situation))
Shifting to a birth year registration system makes it easier to understand what age group a youth player belongs in ((or lied to by the #1 GDA club)) Previously, two players born in the same year could be in different age groups. Now, every player born in the same calendar year will play in the same age group. This makes it easier for parents to figure out ((not for me)) where their child should be playing and for both coaches and parents to become more aware of how players develop based on age and how individual needs may vary.

This change also aligns the U.S. youth soccer calendar with the rest of the world. The United States was one of only two countries that used a school year calendar to determine age group. ((so?) Now, the United States joins nearly every other FIFA federation. U.S. youth players will now develop and train in the same age group environment as leading soccer nations worldwide. ((oh joy, what a great idea knuckleheads. Seriously, this was the #1 bomb attack on all of us to begin the War of 2016 and so many said, "wtf are you doing, stop!!!!" However, USSF and few folks said they know what's best and were here to take all the Elite players from the Elite clubs that play in the Elite Club National League (ECNL) and make them World Class, not just Elite. Plus, we have The List all you fools think is important when goat is 12. Hahahahahaah. Suckers!!!!!
 
sdb said:
So ECNL is free and there's no travel with associated costs? Pay to play is not a GDA issue, it's a club soccer issue.
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ECNL never said it was free. No got free unless you needed help. GDA said it would be fully funded and not just for one year and be grateful. You paid for a service at ECNL. It wasn;t $60,000 either. Map said it was $33K back in the day. That's still pay to play, just now it cost way more because of all the travel.
 
sdb said:
So ECNL is free and there's no travel with associated costs? Pay to play is not a GDA issue, it's a club soccer issue.
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Agreed, ECNL and DA costs are more alike than different. DA was not supposed to be that way, as originally described/marketed by US Soccer and the clubs, hence some of the frustration. I never bought into that line of thought, so that component of the DA bothers me not.

Pay to play is not a club soccer issue -- club soccer is a choice, and that it costs money to run a club is a reality. Even if you eliminate all but local travel, someone has to pay coach salaries (generally 2/3 of a club's budget), field and equipment (another 10-25%), uniforms, referees ... the issue is a few people want someone else to pay for their child. Perhaps they think their child somehow deserves a free ride, or that US Soccer, MLS, NWSL are flush enough that they should pay the costs of those players deemed worthy of developing, like the boys DA. Or perhaps coaches should work for free and local municipalities and clubs should build and maintain enough fields for every user group to have free access.

Someone has to pay for these kids to play. I have generally felt I have received value for that payment, but understand not all do.
 
I don't think GDA ever said that it was free either. First year, I believe that only 2 clubs in SoCal announced that it would be free for all players, Pats and LAG. I know that LAG is still free, not sure about Pats. The ECNL and GDA families we know both pay about the same, roughly $8-10K per year incl. associated travel.

You may have been sold a bill of goods, but you bought it. 100% your fault for not doing more due diligence, for falling for the sales pitch.
 
Dos Equis said:
Agreed, ECNL and DA costs are more alike than different. DA was not supposed to be that way, as originally described/marketed by US Soccer and the clubs, hence some of the frustration. I never bought into that line of thought, so that component of the DA bothers me not.

Pay to play is not a club soccer issue -- club soccer is a choice, and that it costs money to run a club is a reality. Even if you eliminate all but local travel, someone has to pay coach salaries (generally 2/3 of a club's budget), field and equipment (another 10-25%), uniforms, referees ... the issue is a few people want someone else to pay for their child. Perhaps they think their child somehow deserves a free ride, or that US Soccer, MLS, NWSL are flush enough that they should pay the costs of those players deemed worthy of developing, like the boys DA. Or perhaps coaches should work for free and local municipalities and clubs should build and maintain enough fields for every user group to have free access.

Someone has to pay for these kids to play. I have generally felt I have received value for that payment, but understand not all do.
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First off smart man ((Just having fun)) great job not falling for the trick like I did. This is all about college for your dd. Hope Solo said poor folks can;t enter club soccer. It's like an old white man's country club that gets so many favors that their kids get all the glory still and poor kids can;t enter the league. When you pay to play, the one's you pay make sure you get to play and start and receive all the benefits of what the league can offer. There lies the problem dude. Thirdly, some coaches and docs ((not all) get paid way too much. If your rich dad, who cares right? Fourth, the top top players need to be protected from all of you who love pay per play for obvious reasons and let the top top play for free and with only the other top top goats only. Play possession and the right way can only be plaid with the top top players. Last, i'm so glad that @Dos Equis received values for his investment in the pay per play leagues. I did not and mine was free. Imagine that. A poor American father with a half Guatemalan dd getting a full ride by the #1 GDA club in America that told everyone on their website to donate more of the rich money so we can play for free while dads like you pay for it. I get this now. If the poor dad has some issues, he needs to shut because it's all free.
 
I never heard our club or GDA as a whole say it would be free. It is not even free for many boys DA players. Our local USL affiliated (future MLS) boys DA started out fully funding the boys academy, but pulled funding after a few years when they determined they couldn’t . The club gave parents the option to continue the program by covering the costs themselves, and they voted to do so, so the boys DA survives that way.
US Soccer tried to reduce the cost of DA play by funding league and showcase costs. DA actually costs clubs less than ECNL because DA clubs don’t pay league fees, ref fees or tournament fees. Those savings may be offset by additional coach and field rental expenses due to the 4 day a week training mandate - I don’t know.

In my experience, our club has not passed this possible savings on to parents in the form of reduced monthly dues, but they could.
DA and ECNL families both bear the extra travel costs associated with playing in a national league head on.

This pay to play model is not unique to soccer. It is the same for many youth sports.
 
sdb said:
I don't think GDA ever said that it was free either. First year, I believe that only 2 clubs in SoCal announced that it would be free for all players, Pats and LAG. I know that LAG is still free, not sure about Pats. The ECNL and GDA families we know both pay about the same, roughly $8-10K per year incl. associated travel.

You may have been sold a bill of goods, but you bought it. 100% your fault for not doing more due diligence, for falling for the sales pitch.
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@Dos Equis (laughing and just having fun). LAFC, Legends, Surf, Pats and the LA Galaxy announce fully funded in 2016 to my ears and eyes. I was at all the talks dude in 2016 and 2017. I'm not sure wtf happened, but it was for only for one year. I;m still scratching my head on that trick. However, just so you no, no Doc said, "hey, come here for one year of fully funded fun and then after that it will cost you $10,000-$15,000 depending on your travel budget and how you travel. That btw, is determined by each families assets, right? Fully funded was a lie, it just wasn;t going to ever really happen and smart dads like you Dos didnt fall for the lie. However, your happy with the GDA. That is weird imo a makes me question things in my brain. It was a trick to get goats to come I think. Again, I did not make one outbound phone call to a Doc. All calls were inbound from the Doc or owner .I still have copies of text from two Docs with the deal. We set up meetings with my wife and dd and Doc and they ALL shared to us what the big GDA plan was and how all clubs need to fully fund their top teams, just like the men. Come on now, get your head out of the sky and see the facts as they're. We were sold this hole GDA league based on being just like the BDA. Are they not fully funded?
 
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