ECNL expansion 2021-2022

All these Dads on here thinking their kids youth club is just like the pro leagues. Pro/rel in club soccer is one of the dumbest ideas i've read about on this board. To maximize development, kids (and families) need stability from their coaches, leagues, teams, and clubs. Unfortunately, we haven't had that here for years, but it's possible we might finally have that now.

Awfully elitist to posit that teams near the bottom don't deserve to be there and completely anti-development as well. If winning is all that matters then how do you think coaches and clubs will view bringing up younger players, or playing subs more than 5-10 minutes, or trying different positions? And do you want to give a huge recruiting advantage to the biggest clubs who hoard good players. Pro/rel would do that. Some of these "top" clubs' bread and butter is not developing their own players but plucking the best from smaller clubs, arguing that their current club doesn't play in the top league. As it stands, that cannot now be argued for many clubs.

If a certain club's teams are all losing 6-0, 7-0 every game, then ok, maybe you have a point. But that's not happening in the ECNL. Don't judge the quality of a team's wins and losses unless you're watching their games.

Full disclosure: One of my kids plays on a middle-of-the-pack club and another on a top club.

You and @EOTL bring up some good points as to why Rel/Pro wouldn't work... I do see some benefits to pro/rel but I also see your points as well. Not sure its in the future of ECNL anyway...
 
Relegation is a terrible idea. You will never be able to get the bulk of the best players to congregate in one league with a system of relegation. You would never have the stability needed to draw good coaches into selecting youth soccer coach as a profession. You would never have the stability needed for a club to grow to a point that it can put substantial resources into fields, coaching, and tournaments. You’d be stuck with the daddy ball free for all that exists at the younger levels.

If you let in the riff raff, the cheap ass parents and coaches will be constantly whining about the costs, the travel, the commitment, all the things that eventually cause teams and clubs to fall apart - until ECNL also fell apart. There would be no more high quality out of state showcases, as too many cheapskate teams are unable to field enough players with parents willing or able to pay for the trips. Teams would drop out mid season as already happens to a lot of teams at these s**ty and petty little clubs. Teams would constantly be playing on crappy fields once you let in S**ty FC that can’t afford good field space or decent refs. Everyone would be offering every 12 year old in sight free rides to gain an advantage over clubs that are actually fiscally responsible.

People like @crush like the idea of relegation because they don’t like the reality that you get what you pay for. They want the benefits you get from ECNL clubs that spent years of hard work and financial risk to get where they, but at 1/10th the price of what it actually costs.
The vast majority of comp teams play in pro-rel leagues. Seems to work out ok.

The real objection is that, in pro-rel, clubs have to admit the existence of the weak teams at strong clubs. Example:

Arrogance FC is usually good, but the 06 team sucks rocks.

Under pro-rel, the 06 team drops down. 06 parents finally put 2 and 2 together, and they stop writing the big checks.

Under ECNL, Arrogance FC gets to sell membership on an elite 06 team, even though they don't have one.

No wonder Arrogance FC likes ECNL better.
 
I just want pro-rel so the matches are worth playing.

I doubt ECNL because I don’t want my kid to waste 2 days and fail a history test just so she can help give La Roca a 6-0 drubbing.

Flying out to get clobbered by Real Colorado would be just as bad.

The other reason pro/rel is bad is that it really hurts development. Every coach will be playing to win every game instead of developing players, because losing a u14 soccer game potentially means having to file for unemployment and find a new line of work all because some soccer daddy is trying to prop up his fragile ego trying to live vicariously through his daughter. That is nuts.
 
The other reason pro/rel is bad is that it really hurts development. Every coach will be playing to win every game instead of developing players, because losing a u14 soccer game potentially means having to file for unemployment and find a new line of work all because some soccer daddy is trying to prop up his fragile ego trying to live vicariously through his daughter. That is nuts.
That’s why originally, ECNL started at the older age groups. It got you past those “development” ages into when competition and recruiting should start to become more important. At least that was the intention.
 
That’s why originally, ECNL started at the older age groups. It got you past those “development” ages into when competition and recruiting should start to become more important. At least that was the intention.
Honestly that’s what should happen. This year the 09’s get to step up to ECNL but I just don’t see a large enough pool of kids to fill all ECNL and ECRL teams. The other challenge is that most 12 year old kids don’t have a clue of the commitment needed for ECNL. It should start at 13 or 14 for the girls and 12 for the boys.
 
The other reason pro/rel is bad is that it really hurts development. Every coach will be playing to win every game instead of developing players, because losing a u14 soccer game potentially means having to file for unemployment and find a new line of work all because some soccer daddy is trying to prop up his fragile ego trying to live vicariously through his daughter. That is nuts.
I suppose the development is in the eye of the beholder. Most top clubs don't do a lot of developing, they do a lot of recruiting of the "developed" players from other clubs.

Th rest of your statement is :rolleyes:
 
I suppose the development is in the eye of the beholder. Most top clubs don't do a lot of developing, they do a lot of recruiting of the "developed" players from other clubs.

Th rest of your statement is :rolleyes:

Development happens well into the mid 20s. Playing with better players day in and day out accelerates development.
 
I notice you are always talking about cost, wondering if you do this at restaurants and grocery stores as well. The beauty of being a consumer is that you don’t have to part with your money, you can choose to spend it elsewhere!
Better articulate your point.
 
Thanks. We finally might actually have some stability around here for a few years from our league. Let's enjoy that lack of drama. Fingers crossed.

Good points as well and I like the take on it, but let me ask this question. In AZ we already basically have a Pro/Rel system in our St leagues. In our top St league the APL it's basically Bottom 2 out next top 2 in with an Application system thrown in. Then we have St league 1&2 that basically runs on the same principles. Does Cali not run a system similar for its St leagues? Why is it ok for one and not the other, Development still happens in the St Leagues right? I agree it will never happen, but wouldn't you agree as a club if your getting manhandled as a club on a consistent basis, maybe you don't belong anymore?
 
Does Cali not run a system similar for its St leagues? Why is it ok for one and not the other, Development still happens in the St Leagues right? I agree it will never happen, but wouldn't you agree as a club if your getting manhandled as a club on a consistent basis, maybe you don't belong anymore?
Unfortunately it doesn’t for most leagues due to the following:
- too many prized parents (especially in south oc -north San Diego area) demanding to be in the highest level at whatever price it takes.

-there’s too much money to be made.
- clubs hyping up that ECNL dream to all parents. Let’s face it, it’s the primary path but the ROI makes no sense unless you get more than 30% scholarship money.

the fact is pro-rel should exist and we should only have a handful of ECNL/DA teams. Eliminate ECRL and condense the tiers. Wegave Flight 3,2,1, 1a,1b, ECRL, ECNl, DA, mls next, ayso, signature, bronze, silver, silver elite, gold, premier, what else......
 
I suppose the development is in the eye of the beholder. Most top clubs don't do a lot of developing, they do a lot of recruiting of the "developed" players from other clubs.

Th rest of your statement is :rolleyes:

Nonsense. That’s just what you tell yourself to justify being a cheapskate.
 
Development happens well into the mid 20s. Playing with better players day in and day out accelerates development.
True dat. But you also can’t squeeze blood from a turnip. You need players with the requisite genetics and drive to develop them well into their 20’s. Nerds like Steve Urkle will have a much lower ceiling and will max out earlier...much earlier!
 
Nonsense. That’s just what you tell yourself to justify being a cheapskate.
Just a salesman in a cheap suit.

If you had a superior product, you wouldn’t invest so much in guild restrictions.

Glad to see GA is doing well enough to force you to accept Beach and Legends. Always nice to see competition.
 
Good points as well and I like the take on it, but let me ask this question. In AZ we already basically have a Pro/Rel system in our St leagues. In our top St league the APL it's basically Bottom 2 out next top 2 in with an Application system thrown in. Then we have St league 1&2 that basically runs on the same principles. Does Cali not run a system similar for its St leagues? Why is it ok for one and not the other, Development still happens in the St Leagues right? I agree it will never happen, but wouldn't you agree as a club if your getting manhandled as a club on a consistent basis, maybe you don't belong anymore?

In AZ you do not have pro/rel. You have ECNL at the top, just like everywhere else. Sure you have some s**t leagues that put different teams into different brackets, just like everyone else, but that is not pro/rel since it does not have any impact on the top of the food chain. It’s just sorting the lower tiers who don’t matter. It’s pro/rel about as much as MLB and the minor leagues, meaning not at all. the

Furthermore, AZ pretty much sucks at soccer, especially once you get out of ECNL, at least on the girls side. I doubt there is a single U15 or higher girls team in AZ that doesn’t play ECNL that wouldn’t lose to top SoCal ECNL clubs 20-0. It’s BS if you think there is nearly the same level of development going in. At least AZ’s ECNL can keep the score in the single digits.

The other thing people like you and @happy9 magat fail to comprehend is that one of the most important factors in development is commitment, and not just commitment of your own kid. You need the same high level commitment from the coaching staff and teammates. That never happens in cheapskate leagues. You never get dedicated committed coaches because you don’t get the income necessary to secure high level coaches, so you get daddy ball part time coaches, and idiots willing to work for some s**t per diem. But go ahead and trust your kid to someone willing to make $8 an hour or sometimes less.

The higher cost of ECNL means that players and families are also committed and serious about it, as they must for that kind of coin. Maybe everyone in AZ is a cheapskate who grew up ok with teammates skipping out all the time because it just isn’t that important to them, or their parents can’t focus on four practices a week because they have two jobs or are single parents, but that does not lead to good soccer develolment.

@happy9’s feelings about pro/rel prove exactly how dumb he is and why no one should believe anything he says. The mere fact that ECNL is highly successful and the vast majority (if not all) elite college girls soccer players come out of ECNL proves him wrong, no ifs ands or buts. The fact that the WNT in the ECNL era is the strongest it has ever been proves the same. The fact that ECNL killed off GDA in a few short years also proves the same. He can claim all he wants that everyone really learned all their development in AYSO when they were 9, bit we all know that’s BS. @happy9 is just another dumb magat who is wrong about everything all the time. His perspective is based on his subconscious irrational belief in American Individualism. He thinks that it’s just as likely a kid will develop into being great simply based on one’s own efforts, with no help from others. You can go to a s**t team, play for free under a daddy coach, and still have the same odds of becoming great as if you spent your formative years training consistently under professional coaches with the best, most dedicated teammates around four days a week for six years. BS. If that were true, why aren’t there there college All-Americans who did not play ECNL? If a kid could become great without ECNL, why isn’t it happening ever? It is because ECNL is where the development really happens.
 
True dat. But you also can’t squeeze blood from a turnip. You need players with the requisite genetics and drive to develop them well into their 20’s. Nerds like Steve Urkle will have a much lower ceiling and will max out earlier...much earlier!
Hep me explain Harry Kane who was let go by the Youth Academy he played for because they thought he was to “heavy” and slow?

Kane first played for a local club, Ridgeway Rovers, and joined the Arsenal youth academy when he was eight years old. He was released after one season for being "a bit chubby" and not "very athletic", according to Liam Brady who was then in charge of Arsenal's academy.[20]
 
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