Doesn't fit the business model.
ECNL expansion 2021-2022
- Thread starter Surf Zombie
- Start date
Look...if Beach can’t perform they should be out too. I’m not advocating “we’re in so you should be out”, but more of a Promotion/Relegation structure.
If a Club is at or near the bottom of the standings in every age group for multiple years what should be done? Especially in areas with 2 or 3 ECNL options in one small geographic area?
Wouldn’t it be better served to drop an underperforming Club in a crowded area to make room for another in an underserved area?
It’s just an opinion but I could be persuaded otherwise.
I dont always agree with you dude, but you wrote that nicely. It is what it is. I think were both glad for the sake of competition. I would like to add WC and Pats to The List to make it 20, only for the kids sake. Pats spent a ton of money doing what the GDA asked the top clubs to do, that is to fully fund the girls progra. They did and now they are out? I say Pats need to be in as does West Coast., just like da boys.#3 would definitely be bottom of the list as the competition is not there...... #1 would is okay if the coach plays their bench strong minutes of around 50%......#2 is okay too unless the team is a full whipping boy that loses every week and rarely has a shot........
Kicker you know I have nothing but love for you but it seems kind of Fd that Beach just gain entry and now you are advocating ECNL removing clubs...... I heard the same from a Beach parent about Real when we got back in last year and I while I did understand the annoyance at your club not getting in last spring I did not understand the hate for other clubs.......a fact is that ECNL is loyal to their member clubs, their member clubs not so much given the DA fiasco, so removals are definitely not going to happen it is just an interesting stance from you...... sure by purely looking at last years results Sharks, Eagles, Rebels and Arsenal may struggle but with so much change every year who can say that for sure........I do think that adding one more to make 18 would be a perfect number with two equal divisions and keep the quality high...... none of the So Calif clubs that are not currently in ECNL deserve to be in based on soccer factors.....if adding one more I'd suggest a SD surf second team or one more Ariz or Nev team so each division has two out of state teams in it making travel equal.......
There was more than just performance to the LV premier story BTW..........but their results were shocking lol so there did not need to be
I liike that. The problem this year is all of us didnt get a chance to perform. So we should scrap this season and just do some USL and then do a big group tournament to see who the top 18 are in June. Start with 32 teams in 8 groups of 4. Top two are in plus two wild cards for 18 baby. This is so easy. The rest play local leagues and try and win in next years play in tournament? Now that sounds like fun to me.
The relegation thing would be awesome but would never work and would likely result in club hopping and animosity. Would the ECRL be the battlegrounds for the teams vying for the ECNL spots? I really do like it, just don't know if it would work in this case.
ECNL sells itself as a provider of a service. You can do it on your own, but if you go with them, they'll make it easier. Which is arguable true if your player gets the minutes, which means she gets the exposure. Parents do minimal work during the recruiting process, they just write checks. Which we are happy to do most of the time..Well, maybe not happy to do, but we do it.
Makes sense for U17.
Why do the U13 parents bother with it?
I am pretty sure UCLA is not sending scouts to watch some 12 year olds play.
azsnowrider
SILVER ELITE
SW ECNL will always have a travel problem as long as AZ exists in the conference. Keeping Clubs in that are underperforming just to fix travel doesn't help the "Spirit" of competition. They are just easy wins to pad the numbers. I personally like a promotion relegation system, make them earn it, I'll bet we see some coaches start coaching and players stepping up instead of going through the motions.
oh canada
GOLD
All these Dads on here thinking their kids youth club is just like the pro leagues. Pro/rel in club soccer is one of the dumbest ideas i've read about on this board. To maximize development, kids (and families) need stability from their coaches, leagues, teams, and clubs. Unfortunately, we haven't had that here for years, but it's possible we might finally have that now.
Awfully elitist to posit that teams near the bottom don't deserve to be there and completely anti-development as well. If winning is all that matters then how do you think coaches and clubs will view bringing up younger players, or playing subs more than 5-10 minutes, or trying different positions? And do you want to give a huge recruiting advantage to the biggest clubs who hoard good players. Pro/rel would do that. Some of these "top" clubs' bread and butter is not developing their own players but plucking the best from smaller clubs, arguing that their current club doesn't play in the top league. As it stands, that cannot now be argued for many clubs.
If a certain club's teams are all losing 6-0, 7-0 every game, then ok, maybe you have a point. But that's not happening in the ECNL. Don't judge the quality of a team's wins and losses unless you're watching their games.
Full disclosure: One of my kids plays on a middle-of-the-pack club and another on a top club.
Pats relationship with DA has nothing to do with ECNL. They were never in ECNL in the first place. They are not competitive enough on the girls side. They would only water down ECNL. Why should ECNL want them? As for West Coast, they left ECNL for DA. They are not competitive enough anymore (they used to be, but not now). So why should ECNL welcome them back? Like Pats, they just water down the product.
azsnowrider
SILVER ELITE
There was more than just performance to the LV premier story BTW..........but their results were shocking lol so there did not need to be
Shocking is an understatement. Didn't most of the teams not win a single game one year?
Relegation is a terrible idea. You will never be able to get the bulk of the best players to congregate in one league with a system of relegation. You would never have the stability needed to draw good coaches into selecting youth soccer coach as a profession. You would never have the stability needed for a club to grow to a point that it can put substantial resources into fields, coaching, and tournaments. You’d be stuck with the daddy ball free for all that exists at the younger levels.
If you let in the riff raff, the cheap ass parents and coaches will be constantly whining about the costs, the travel, the commitment, all the things that eventually cause teams and clubs to fall apart - until ECNL also fell apart. There would be no more high quality out of state showcases, as too many cheapskate teams are unable to field enough players with parents willing or able to pay for the trips. Teams would drop out mid season as already happens to a lot of teams at these s**ty and petty little clubs. Teams would constantly be playing on crappy fields once you let in S**ty FC that can’t afford good field space or decent refs. Everyone would be offering every 12 year old in sight free rides to gain an advantage over clubs that are actually fiscally responsible.
People like @crush like the idea of relegation because they don’t like the reality that you get what you pay for. They want the benefits you get from ECNL clubs that spent years of hard work and financial risk to get where they, but at 1/10th the price of what it actually costs.
I just want pro-rel so the matches are worth playing.
I doubt ECNL because I don’t want my kid to waste 2 days and fail a history test just so she can help give La Roca a 6-0 drubbing.
Flying out to get clobbered by Real Colorado would be just as bad.
Valid points thanks for sharing
Kids sake bro, not adults. I see your point.
Don't disagree with most of this. In a closed ecosystem, relegation could work. 18 teams in an "elite" league doesn't make much sense to me but makes sense as a business model. Maybe they will split it up.
Bottom line is parents wouldn't take well to a relegation system and would jump to the club(s) that weren't relegated, adding to your point about instability and focus on the things that don't benefit the player.
Ahh, first world problems, trying to figure out how to best run a league that is happy to take money from parents.
You and @EOTL bring up some good points as to why Rel/Pro wouldn't work... I do see some benefits to pro/rel but I also see your points as well. Not sure its in the future of ECNL anyway...
It will never work bro. It was dream of mine and that's it. I dreamed 18 and bam, we are going to have 18. I said many other things that ring true today as well. I know my stuff footy, trust me
oh canada
GOLD
Thanks. We finally might actually have some stability around here for a few years from our league. Let's enjoy that lack of drama. Fingers crossed.
The vast majority of comp teams play in pro-rel leagues. Seems to work out ok.
The real objection is that, in pro-rel, clubs have to admit the existence of the weak teams at strong clubs. Example:
Arrogance FC is usually good, but the 06 team sucks rocks.
Under pro-rel, the 06 team drops down. 06 parents finally put 2 and 2 together, and they stop writing the big checks.
Under ECNL, Arrogance FC gets to sell membership on an elite 06 team, even though they don't have one.
No wonder Arrogance FC likes ECNL better.
The other reason pro/rel is bad is that it really hurts development. Every coach will be playing to win every game instead of developing players, because losing a u14 soccer game potentially means having to file for unemployment and find a new line of work all because some soccer daddy is trying to prop up his fragile ego trying to live vicariously through his daughter. That is nuts.