DOC here. Any questions on the inside dealings?

paytoplayisgood said:
I am in this business because honestly I love soccer, my daughters are involved in the game, its a rather efficient job. I wanted to become a DOC simply because I enjoy it. Watching teams grow and coaches succeeding makes me happy. My screen name is no troll job and is my belief. People despise those in power sadly and will never understand which is why I started this thread.
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See, here's the thing... if you really started this thread with the intention of having parents/forum members gain more understanding and thus appreciation for the job of a DOC, when you say things like "People despise those in power," you are ruining any chance at accomplishing your goal. Coming from someone who thinks they are in a position of power, that's a conceited, insulting, and somewhat paranoid thing to say. If you actually are a DOC at a club with more than a few teams, especially if you charge good money for your fees, then I guarantee you that you have parents in your club who run businesses of their own, are high powered executives, or deal with plenty of people "in power." The idea that these people resent you for it is laughable and stupid. Do some people resent others "in power?" Sure, I guess. But generally speaking, people don't mind those in positions of power as long as they get treated with respect. And let's not get too carried away with your authoratay, Cartman. You're a youth soccer coach, not Genghis Khan.

I still don't think you are an actual DOC (because while most of them aren't particularly brilliant, they generally know there's nothing for their club to gain from these sorts of conversations with parents on an online forum). But you are slowly convincing me, because not only are you a poor communicator, you also appear more obsessed with your position/"power" than is healthy, and you keep making these sweeping, broad generalities like "pay to play is good" or "your not good enough for college if your club isn't ECNL/DA" or "people despise those in power," which means you have a very poor grasp of complex subjects... and I have met some DOC's who fit that profile.
 
timbuck said:
I'm not a DOC, but my impression is that the youth soccer landscape is so fragmented because of long standing grudges among adult men.
"He stole my star player in 1996, so there's no way we are letting his club into the league that I am on the board of. At least not unless they can bring a lot of team$$$$ to pad our numbers. And let's make sure their teams get placed in a bracket that makes them travel more."
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Adult ego is 100% holding us back.

I sincerely doubt @paytoplayisgood is a real DoC, as no real DoC would come on here and say everything they have that ultimately highlights the downsides to pay-to-play. Nonetheless, it's funny seeing all the similar questions/concerns y'all have. For what it's worth I do know some really decent DoCs and coaches. They exist.
 
NorCalDad said:
Adult ego is 100% holding us back.

I sincerely doubt @paytoplayisgood is a real DoC, as no real DoC would come on here and say everything they have that ultimately highlights the downsides to pay-to-play. Nonetheless, it's funny seeing all the similar questions/concerns y'all have. For what it's worth I do know some really decent DoCs and coaches. They exist.
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????? I am being rather vague. Nothing I have said highlights the downsides to pay to play.
 
NorCalDad said:
Adult ego is 100% holding us back.

I sincerely doubt @paytoplayisgood is a real DoC, as no real DoC would come on here and say everything they have that ultimately highlights the downsides to pay-to-play. Nonetheless, it's funny seeing all the similar questions/concerns y'all have. For what it's worth I do know some really decent DoCs and coaches. They exist.
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Yes, they do. I hate to lump everyone into one bucket. However, in a market as saturated as youth soccer in California (especially SoCal) they are in the minority.
 
paytoplayisgood said:
????? I am being rather vague. Nothing I have said highlights the downsides to pay to play.
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I would say 95% of what you've posted here and elsewhere on the forum is directly related to the bottom line. One line you have "At younger age groups like anything under u16 we focus on development more" which I actually call BS on because if you're GA, you've got U13 - U15 to be concerned about standings wise. But nonetheless, you are essentially highlighting what we all already know....it all comes down to money. That means clubs make decisions based on financial gain/loss and not what's in the best interest of the kids and sport. I just don't buy that any DoC would come on here preaching this and then suggest pay-to-play is a good thing. I mean it is what it is and I don't know of a better alternative in our economic and youth sports systems. I've yet to see anything that makes me go "Wow, pay-to-play is awesome".
 
Mystery Train said:
Yes, they do. I hate to lump everyone into one bucket. However, in a market as saturated as youth soccer in California (especially SoCal) they are in the minority.
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As a clarification to the above:

*Edit* I have seen plenty of DoC's and coaches who are "decent" as people, but maybe not so great at the job or required aspects of the job. I have seen a number of coaches and DoC's that are neither decent people nor great at their jobs by my estimation. Not a ton of them, but far more than I expected when my DD started her journey. Those negative experiences generally outweigh a lot of the mild, semi-ok experiences, and they make the few really great experiences stand out as being a minority. I do know the vast majority of adults who get into youth soccer as coaches, directors or referees, generally get into it because the genuinely love the game, just as the OP says. But that doesn't guarantee a positive experience for the players and families, unfortunately.
 
"Director of Coaches" - DOC.
The few DOCs that I've come across don't seem to do much "directing of coaches."
They are more of a a club admin role and check on the health/competitiveness/long term viability of a team.
Maybe some of the bigger clubs have actual coach trainings to try and get teams to have a similar look on the field. But go watch 3 or 4 teams from the same club play during weekend. Not many clubs have a true "club identity."
 
timbuck said:
"Director of Coaches" - DOC.
The few DOCs that I've come across don't seem to do much "directing of coaches."
They are more of a a club admin role and check on the health/competitiveness/long term viability of a team.
Maybe some of the bigger clubs have actual coach trainings to try and get teams to have a similar look on the field. But go watch 3 or 4 teams from the same club play during weekend. Not many clubs have a true "club identity."
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I also think DoCs have to spend way too much time on crazy parents and all that noise. My guess is DoCs really aren't paid enough to do what some of us wished they could focus on (coaching instruction/mentoring).
 
NorCalDad said:
I also think DoCs have to spend way too much time on crazy parents and all that noise. My guess is DoCs really aren't paid enough to do what some of us wished they could focus on (coaching instruction/mentoring).
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The Doc I know makes a killing after all the goodies come in. Trust me NoCal, they work with parents who know how to pay to play this game and for this Doc, that's why pay to play is good for him. The pay is good and that's why so many hate me. I am for a good pay for a good day's work. What some us have experienced is insane because we didn't have the money to compete with the rich dads and that sucks. Politics is also at play so you better do what they want you to do. Good luck to your player :)
 
crush said:
The Doc I know makes a killing after all the goodies come in. Trust me NoCal, they work with parents who know how to pay to play this game and for this Doc, that's why pay to play is good for him. The pay is good and that's why so many hate me. I am for a good pay for a good day's work. What some us have experienced is insane because we didn't have the money to compete with the rich dads and that sucks. Politics is also at play so you better do what they want you to do. Good luck to your player :)
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So why don't you just go ahead and tell us exactly what each DOC at every ECNL club in SoCal makes? I'm very interested in knowing exactly what each of these "corrupt" "fat cats" are "raking in". Can you please also tell us exactly the right amount that a DOC should make?

BTW, and not to state the obvious, but perhaps the best way to better compete with people who have money, and to pay for what things cost, is to have a job.
 
paytoplayisgood said:
We have a separate staff member who controls our finances (CFO). I know roughly how things are done in our club. We budget fees/costs by looking at prior year profits. High profit year we don't change things. Low profit year we raise/lower costs based on some factors. We generally look at income vs expense overall for the club. But, we do keep metrics for team by team just incase we have an outlier.
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There are no CFOs in soccer clubs. No soccer club is going to look at a budget/cost based on prior year.
 
paytoplayisgood said:
I tell my GA/DPL coaches to do whatever it takes to win games. No lying involved.
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Although I doubt you are a DOC. This kind of direction is what's wrong with high level youth soccer. I think back to early last season when the coach of one of the big name clubs that rhymes with smurf had a parent call me and ask if I would allow my daughter to play in a big tournament under some other kids name as a younger player just so they could win. Uh F.......k NO...

Sounds like your philosophy and I'm sure the lying part is subjective as long as the wins pile up. Guess having kids with morals may become detrimental to youth soccer.
 
Lavey29 said:
I think back to early last season when the coach of one of the big name clubs that rhymes with smurf had a parent call me and ask if I would allow my daughter to play in a big tournament under some other kids name as a younger player just so they could win. Uh F.......k NO...
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I find this so hard to believe....Especially, in this small SOCAL soccer world we live in.
 
#girldad said:
I find this so hard to believe....Especially, in this small SOCAL soccer world we live in.
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Don't care if you believe it or not. Few years back while my kid was on another team, the coach for the other team snuck his college playing daughter into the game. Some players recognized her and of course forfeit and subsequent banning occurred. So while I don't believe it is prevalent, I do believe cheating occurs in various methods.
 
Lavey29 said:
Don't care if you believe it or not. Few years back while my kid was on another team, the coach for the other team snuck his college playing daughter into the game. Some players recognized her and of course forfeit and subsequent banning occurred. So while I don't believe it is prevalent, I do believe cheating occurs in various methods.
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I know of someone who’s sons team lost in the round of 16 of State Cup and later showed up on another team in the Quarter Finals. Kid was subsequently banned from the league for at least a season.

It does happen.
 
Kicker 2.0 said:
I know of someone who’s sons team lost in the round of 16 of State Cup and later showed up on another team in the Quarter Finals. Kid was subsequently banned from the league for at least a season.

It does happen.
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Thanks for commenting. I don't think it's common but it does happen here and there and when the OP alleged DOC tells his coaches do anything you need to in order to win games that opens the door. He should tell his coaches to develop the players and develop the team chemistry and the wins will come.

I still highly doubt he is a DOC probably just trolling.
 
I have difficulties understanding the logic of cheating to win in this youth soccer. There has to be a strong incentive to risk it.
1) Every players already paid their club fee and coaches are already paid their salary. Are the coaches really under that much pressure to win?
2) If DOC really pressures the coaches then he/she must have a reason also.
3) Do parents really want to join a winning club? If 80% of revenue comes from flight 1-3 parents, I think most of these parents do not even care about winning. They do care if the kids are not playing or not happy with the team/coach.
This is a "pay to play scheme" so I think it is not smart for a DOC to take actions based on the demand of 10% of the parents (top 10% players). I have a feeling clubs will be more financially successful if they pay more attention to the bottom 80% players.
 
jojon said:
I have difficulties understanding the logic of cheating to win in this youth soccer. There has to be a strong incentive to risk it.
1) Every players already paid their club fee and coaches are already paid their salary. Are the coaches really under that much pressure to win?
2) If DOC really pressures the coaches then he/she must have a reason also.
3) Do parents really want to join a winning club? If 80% of revenue comes from flight 1-3 parents, I think most of these parents do not even care about winning. They do care if the kids are not playing or not happy with the team/coach.
This is a "pay to play scheme" so I think it is not smart for a DOC to take actions based on the demand of 10% of the parents (top 10% players). I have a feeling clubs will be more financially successful if they pay more attention to the bottom 80% players.
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Bonus $$$ to win tournaments and National Championships is a motive for some to cheat. No one cheats for free!!!
 
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