DOC here. Any questions on the inside dealings?

Sike said:
You think top players are in ECRL on the girls side?? To my surprise, some really good players and teams still left in GA, but the vast majority of the top players and teams are in ECNL on the girls side.
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You miss the point. On the boys side MLS is the process of dividing so the top flight are the academy teams that play each other in league. The rest of the MLS Next teams not affiliated with academies are put in separate divisions as they get older. So the truly elite players on the boys side are now playing for the academy side. The rest of the teams play each other and are used as training fodder for the academy teams.

ECNL on the girls side (like MLS Next) is so vast that the truly elite players are intermixed with other top players. They don't really have an elite league to develop the handful of girls which will go on to the USWNT or the pros, unlike the boys. If there were (because there are fewer women's pro opportunities than the men's) it would be much smaller than the boys elite league. But as a result, even just ECNL (never mind GA/DPL/ECRL) is the wild west.
 
Grace T. said:
You miss the point. On the boys side MLS is the process of dividing so the top flight are the academy teams that play each other in league. The rest of the MLS Next teams not affiliated with academies are put in separate divisions as they get older. So the truly elite players on the boys side are now playing for the academy side. The rest of the teams play each other and are used as training fodder for the academy teams.

ECNL on the girls side (like MLS Next) is so vast that the truly elite players are intermixed with other top players. They don't really have an elite league to develop the handful of girls which will go on to the USWNT or the pros, unlike the boys. If there were (because there are fewer women's pro opportunities than the men's) it would be much smaller than the boys elite league. But as a result, even just ECNL (never mind GA/DPL/ECRL) is the wild west.
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I was just pointing out that your statement about top players being spread out in ECRL on the girls side is incorrect. I understand your point. Not sure the "elite" players can't be developed in the ECNL model on the girls side, but agree that they are intermixed with players not nearly as good due to the size of the league.
 
Sike said:
I was just pointing out that your statement about top players being spread out in ECRL on the girls side is incorrect. I understand your point. Not sure the "elite" players can't be developed in the ECNL model on the girls side, but agree that they are intermixed with players not nearly as good due to the size of the league.
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I was just parroting the words used by payorplayisgood, assuming he was arguendo right in his characterization of ECRL to focus on the one argument. I like your assessment. I think it's correct.

If our system made more rational sense instead of all these orgs guarding their turf (including AYSO) it would look much more similar to the European model and something like this:

-A small top flight of academy teams for the boys, a smaller flight for the girls, full funded.
-An MLS Next division for the boys, ECNL for the girls, with more clubs in the larger cities, fewer on the peripheries, targeted at producing D1 college players and used as training fodder for the academy teams so they get cross play
-An EA division for the boys and ECRL for the girls for the second teams, serving also as a reserve which the division 1 teams can dip into so as to be able to limit their numbers
-Flight 1-4 into which clubs can self sort themselves with prodding from admins to make sure teams are put into appropriate flights, with the largest and heaviest flights being 2-3 (in contrast to the pyramid Coast built)
-AYSO Extras
-AYSO Core (I'd give this all to AYSO and remove the practice of feeder rec soccer from which the clubs can get players in order to integrate AYSO into the structure and focus their attention on what they do well as well as solving the access problem for the AYSO United teams).
 
rainbow_unicorn said:
What if doing whatever it takes to win will come at the expense of less development for the players over the course of a season?
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At older age groups that is fine. More wins = more college exposure = higher club prestige = more profits. At younger age groups like anything under u16 we focus on development more. Quality development at younger ages builds better players for the years that count.
 
ajaxahi said:
Hey paytoplayisgood! Assuming you are not being ironic with your screen name, you must have some strong opinions on the matter. So how is pay to play good? And for whom? Please be specific.
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Pay to play ensures that girls have access to top quality facilities and coaching staff. If the higher ups in youth clubs are happy with their finances, that will trickle down to the coaches and furthermore to players. No one wants to run a business at a lost and pay to play avoids that. Those who cannot afford 3k a year soccer can opt in for financial aid. High school sports is a route for them also.
 
Mystery Train said:
I have some questions, sort of. Tell us about yourself. Why are you in this business? What motivated you to become a DOC at a soccer club? Is your screen name ironic, a troll-job, or do you really believe that statement? Full disclosure, I have a pretty negative view of all DOC's in general. I've only met two who I thought had a lot of integrity, were intelligent, and had good communication skills, and one of those got squeezed out/stepped down after a few years. The other ran a very small boutique club and I have no idea if they're still around. The rest were generally pretty poor on 2 out of those 3 qualities or just downright awful.
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I am in this business because honestly I love soccer, my daughters are involved in the game, its a rather efficient job. I wanted to become a DOC simply because I enjoy it. Watching teams grow and coaches succeeding makes me happy. My screen name is no troll job and is my belief. People despise those in power sadly and will never understand which is why I started this thread.
 
Mello said:
From a clubs point of view, what is the overall opinion of team managers? Are they appreciated? Are they a p.i.t.a? In your opinion do they deserve special treatment? Extra playing time for their kid? What are your thoughts in general?
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80% of our team managers are lazy and only care about the success of their child honestly hahaha. There are some who truly care about the team and club. Those ones are greatly appreciated. Extra playing time for their kid is up to the coaches on this one but generally if the kid is towards the bottom of the depth chart, she will be exempt from being cut.
 
paytoplayisgood said:
80% of our team managers are lazy and only care about the success of their child honestly hahaha. There are some who truly care about the team and club. Those ones are greatly appreciated. Extra playing time for their kid is up to the coaches on this one but generally if the kid is towards the bottom of the depth chart, she will be exempt from being cut.
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Serious question - why do coaches put so much on to team managers?
I get that you need someone to plan some stuff outside of practice times to get teams to bond.
But the collection of player cards, the printing of rosters, the set up of teamsnap, collecting funds, figuring out who brings the bench and canopy - I really don't think there is any reason that a coach or a club admin shouldn't be able to handle this stuff.
 
timbuck said:
Serious question - why do coaches put so much on to team managers?
I get that you need someone to plan some stuff outside of practice times to get teams to bond.
But the collection of player cards, the printing of rosters, the set up of teamsnap, collecting funds, figuring out who brings the bench and canopy - I really don't think there is any reason that a coach or a club admin shouldn't be able to handle this stuff.
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Asking a LOT of the Club admin to do anything for a team beyond collection of Club Fees and Player Registration. Especially if the Club has 30+ teams.
 
timbuck said:
Serious question - why do coaches put so much on to team managers?
I get that you need someone to plan some stuff outside of practice times to get teams to bond.
But the collection of player cards, the printing of rosters, the set up of teamsnap, collecting funds, figuring out who brings the bench and canopy - I really don't think there is any reason that a coach or a club admin shouldn't be able to handle this stuff.
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Managers choose to volunteer. If clubs didn't have managers volunteering, you would see an increase in player fees.
 
paytoplayisgood said:
At older age groups that is fine. More wins = more college exposure = higher club prestige = more profits. At younger age groups like anything under u16 we focus on development more. Quality development at younger ages builds better players for the years that count.
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Am I the only one cringing when I read this? Sounds like players are not the top priority.
 
Do the DOC's in a general area have any kind of a working relationship? Is it a good working relationship? Do they help each other out? Do they throw each other under the bus? Please describe.
 
Mello said:
Do the DOC's in a general area have any kind of a working relationship? Is it a good working relationship? Do they help each other out? Do they throw each other under the bus? Please describe.
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I'm not a DOC, but my impression is that the youth soccer landscape is so fragmented because of long standing grudges among adult men.
"He stole my star player in 1996, so there's no way we are letting his club into the league that I am on the board of. At least not unless they can bring a lot of team$$$$ to pad our numbers. And let's make sure their teams get placed in a bracket that makes them travel more."
 
paytoplayisgood said:
I am in this business because honestly I love soccer, my daughters are involved in the game, its a rather efficient job. I wanted to become a DOC simply because I enjoy it. Watching teams grow and coaches succeeding makes me happy. My screen name is no troll job and is my belief. People despise those in power sadly and will never understand which is why I started this thread.
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See, here's the thing... if you really started this thread with the intention of having parents/forum members gain more understanding and thus appreciation for the job of a DOC, when you say things like "People despise those in power," you are ruining any chance at accomplishing your goal. Coming from someone who thinks they are in a position of power, that's a conceited, insulting, and somewhat paranoid thing to say. If you actually are a DOC at a club with more than a few teams, especially if you charge good money for your fees, then I guarantee you that you have parents in your club who run businesses of their own, are high powered executives, or deal with plenty of people "in power." The idea that these people resent you for it is laughable and stupid. Do some people resent others "in power?" Sure, I guess. But generally speaking, people don't mind those in positions of power as long as they get treated with respect. And let's not get too carried away with your authoratay, Cartman. You're a youth soccer coach, not Genghis Khan.

I still don't think you are an actual DOC (because while most of them aren't particularly brilliant, they generally know there's nothing for their club to gain from these sorts of conversations with parents on an online forum). But you are slowly convincing me, because not only are you a poor communicator, you also appear more obsessed with your position/"power" than is healthy, and you keep making these sweeping, broad generalities like "pay to play is good" or "your not good enough for college if your club isn't ECNL/DA" or "people despise those in power," which means you have a very poor grasp of complex subjects... and I have met some DOC's who fit that profile.
 
timbuck said:
I'm not a DOC, but my impression is that the youth soccer landscape is so fragmented because of long standing grudges among adult men.
"He stole my star player in 1996, so there's no way we are letting his club into the league that I am on the board of. At least not unless they can bring a lot of team$$$$ to pad our numbers. And let's make sure their teams get placed in a bracket that makes them travel more."
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Adult ego is 100% holding us back.

I sincerely doubt @paytoplayisgood is a real DoC, as no real DoC would come on here and say everything they have that ultimately highlights the downsides to pay-to-play. Nonetheless, it's funny seeing all the similar questions/concerns y'all have. For what it's worth I do know some really decent DoCs and coaches. They exist.
 
NorCalDad said:
Adult ego is 100% holding us back.

I sincerely doubt @paytoplayisgood is a real DoC, as no real DoC would come on here and say everything they have that ultimately highlights the downsides to pay-to-play. Nonetheless, it's funny seeing all the similar questions/concerns y'all have. For what it's worth I do know some really decent DoCs and coaches. They exist.
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????? I am being rather vague. Nothing I have said highlights the downsides to pay to play.
 
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