DMCV Sharks Girls Director

[rainbow_unicorn]

I don't have a horse in this race and am genuinely curious as to how player pools will pan out. If that golden-ticket number is something like 5 players per age group that's a tough pill to swallow for those players that are #6 - 10 where the difference in talent between player #7 (could be booted down to team B) and player #5 (holds golden ticket) is razor thin. I would guess that the magic number for players guaranteed A team roster spot at all times would be a bit higher? Maybe 10?

 

[what-happened]

You all just don’t have a real clue what Surf is doing for “pool play” which it isn’t really true pool play. so it’s laughable all the conjecture and complaining. Every parent who signed up knows exactly what it means and how it’s implemented and exactly where their DD stands going into the season with zero promises and known possibilities that movement can happen and yet they have more signed up for their ECNL/ECRL squads this season and more showing up now each practice to be looked at. If your DD wants to play for Surf you bring her and she has to compete, period. If she’s good enough for ECNL squad then there is a spot. The ECRL teams are being strengthened through this as well and some who are moving on just know the path to ECNL squad may be harder now so seeking easier, smaller pastures to play and that’s fine. Good for competition all over. Most of this spitting in the wind about this are the typical Surf haters no matter the process or topic so I’m sure another rant on some other wrong thing will pop up soon. White noise.

Or maybe it's opinion, discussion, discourse...all of those things that are common and expected on a youth soccer forum. Of course there are surf haters. They've rubbed people the wrong way, for reasons all their own and they deserve some of the shade that cast their way.

They are a business, free to do what they think is right and to make money.

 

[Sombitch]

Re

I'm routing for Sharks and Rebels to elevate their game but I'm not sure this is very accurate. Rebels is placing players in top colleges? Rebels has always placed players in colleges but top colleges is a stretch. I need a few examples to be convinced. I heard they're losing their top players to Surf. If Albion had been given ECNL, Surf would have had tough, but with MW gone from Albion and with GA's extensive traveling for league games, it's going to be tough for the girl's program to compete.

How is Yale for a top school? Gonzaga ? UCI? UCSB? Vassar?

What is your definition of top?
Rebels is doing just fine from a college standpoint

 

[what-happened]

Re


How is Yale for a top school? Gonzaga ? UCI? UCSB? Vassar?

What is your definition of top?
Rebels is doing just fine from a college standpoint

Top is whatever your DD thinks is top. Pretty good list you have there.

 

[GT45]

The problem I see with pool play is the joy of team camraderie that a lot of girls play for. Yes, they want to compete, but they want to compete with a group of people they grow close to. Changing rosters regularly does not allow for that same level of team bonding.

 

[crush]

Re


How is Yale for a top school? Gonzaga ? UCI? UCSB? Vassar?

What is your definition of top?
Rebels is doing just fine from a college standpoint

I know what I thought the "top" pro teams were when my dd was 7th and 8th grade.....lol. Oh my, to look back at my arrogance is hard to do but one I must. My pride was in full dad pride back then. I know what I was told "Top" schools were as well and boy I was 100% wrong. I had to lose it all to see my pride, let me tell you. Hey, on a lighter note, I want to apologize publicly to you for saying some stuff that was not all accurate. I got gossip BS from someone and I aired it out here. I know you know the truth on why my dd made the move Please forgive me if you can. I know you to be A GREAT DAD and I wish you nothing the best.

 

[BIGD]

They are a business, free to do what they think is right and to make money.

A type of business yes, and yes to make money but as a non-profit their primary mission and purpose are to further a social cause and provide a public benefit.

 

[Emma]

I have so many thoughts and questions about this from my own experiences. With the exception of the obvious skilled smart exceptional player, the decision on who is A team and who is B team can change with so many variables. Coach preference of players (some prefer smart and tactical, some prefer aggressive and big, some value speed over everything, some value team players over selfish players, etc.), coach style of play ([possession, direct, win at all cost, cheat), other level of players on B team, short term approach vs. long term development, goals of the club, culture of the club, politics. The point being the decision is largely subjective and two different coaches would potentially make different decisions. Not to mention that on the boys side, there is a whole physical development issue where the smartest tactical player at 11 struggles from 12-15 and then rebounds at 16 once they hit puberty. Maybe they are okay playing on the B team for those years but in a lot of clubs, the B team is extremely far off from the A team, like a rec team compared to the mentality and commitment of the A team.

70% of kids stop playing sports at age 13. Why does that happen? Is that good for the youth in our communities? And on that same note, what is really the mission of the non-profit youth soccer organization? Is it to line the pockets of the DOC's by creating winning teams to expand their national brand while they treat our kids like commodities? And shouldn't the responsibility of the coach be to get all their players to improve? These aren't fully funded professional academies right? This is local non profit pay to play competitive youth soccer?

I love competitive sports, especially for the character building, but it should still be youth centered, and we've just veered too far to the side of serving the adults in my opinion.

My son would probably not want to be part of pool play because he enjoys the camaraderie and balances it with competition in the soccer environment. My daughter on the other hand is a go getter with a competitive soccer first and friendship second priority for soccer teams. With most competitive ECNL girls' soccer teams, the mentality of the girls are generally consistent with my daughter as they get older. When they were younger, she was rare but she's now amongst like minded peers. If we are looking to use ECNL as the college scouting and training our daughters for their future college days, the pool play system isn't bad bc colleges have large rosters and pushes them to play for their position every week. It's earned, not given because we wrote a check. It also doubles up their potential group of friends at practices while reducing cliques or gives them more clique choices.

As for bad coaches and parent influences, I don't think any system is going to stop this. It's been a negative impact in regular team environments. The only way to stop bad coaches is to get rid of them. The only way to get rid of negative parent influence is to let them go when they threaten to go regardless of how great their player is. Let them drive the addition hour or two each day to practice.

Most recruiting is now very short, 10-11th grade, two years. I support the pool play to help the B team girls get an opportunity because leaving them in the B team environment for a year is 50% of their recruitment time period.

It's a win win situation in a competitive environment such as SURF. I wouldn't suggest Sharks or Rebels or Albion do it because their pool of players are not very deep. But at Surf, they have strong ECRL teams that can push their ECNL girls and be given an opportunity to move up if they earn it.

 

[Carlsbad7]

My son would probably not want to be part of pool play because he enjoys the camaraderie and balances it with competition in the soccer environment. My daughter on the other hand is a go getter with a competitive soccer first and friendship second priority for soccer teams. With most competitive ECNL girls' soccer teams, the mentality of the girls are generally consistent with my daughter as they get older. When they were younger, she was rare but she's now amongst like minded peers. If we are looking to use ECNL as the college scouting and training our daughters for their future college days, the pool play system isn't bad bc colleges have large rosters and pushes them to play for their position every week. It's earned, not given because we wrote a check. It also doubles up their potential group of friends at practices while reducing cliques or gives them more clique choices.

As for bad coaches and parent influences, I don't think any system is going to stop this. It's been a negative impact in regular team environments. The only way to stop bad coaches is to get rid of them. The only way to get rid of negative parent influence is to let them go when they threaten to go regardless of how great their player is. Let them drive the addition hour or two each day to practice.

Most recruiting is now very short, 10-11th grade, two years. I support the pool play to help the B team girls get an opportunity because leaving them in the B team environment for a year is 50% of their recruitment time period.

It's a win win situation in a competitive environment such as SURF. I wouldn't suggest Sharks or Rebels or Albion do it because their pool of players are not very deep. But at Surf, they have strong ECRL teams that can push their ECNL girls and be given an opportunity to move up if they earn it.

One year of riding pine + not getting playing time on the A team and players will be looking for an exit.

This is where Sharks ECNL teams will pick up the peices and provide opportunities.

People can talk all they want about the benefits of Pool Play. You also need to consider the negatives. What I mean is through pool play the best of the best will rise to the top. However to keep pool play fresh the worst of the worst need to be filtered out to keep players moving around.

 

[crush]

My daughter on the other hand is a go getter with a competitive soccer first and friendship second priority for soccer teams. But at Surf, they have strong ECRL teams that can push their ECNL girls

My dd is the opposite but it makes for a fun debate. I think the "go getter" for yourself first over friendship & teammates ((care for others before yourself)) is what sucks about soccer these days but trust me, I understand that mentality all too well. I dont think the go getter attitude will help the team win championship. The best college teams that win win by putting team first, not the one go getter. Good luck to your player in college.

 

[Emma]

One year of riding pine + not getting playing time on the A team and players will be looking for an exit.

This is where Sharks ECNL teams will pick up the peices and provide opportunities.

People can talk all they want about the benefits of Pool Play. You also need to consider the negatives. What I mean is through pool play the best of the best will rise to the top. However to keep pool play fresh the worst of the worst need to be filtered out to keep players moving around.

I agree, it's not all postives with pool play and glad to see the arguments on both sides being raised. If a player is not getting play time, they should move on. I would say this to any player on any team, pool play or not. If you are not getting play time, move on unless your are their for social reasons.

I think pool play can be done successfully if players are all given opportunities to shine and be exposed to college scouts at the right time. If Surf puts in an ECRL or ECNL bench player who they know will be a good matchup for a particular ECNL opponent in front of college scouts, and the player shines in front of scouts, then pool play will have been used effectively.

I'd like to see how Surf handles pool play and it's a different option in San Diego. You are probably correct, Sharks and Rebels may end up benefitting from this as some players/parents might not like it but Surf will be able to attract very competitive players who want to compete for their position week in and week out. There are girls who like the pool play because they want to see the pressure on more and thrive under more pressure.

 

[MacDre]

My son would probably not want to be part of pool play because he enjoys the camaraderie and balances it with competition in the soccer environment. My daughter on the other hand is a go getter with a competitive soccer first and friendship second priority for soccer teams. With most competitive ECNL girls' soccer teams, the mentality of the girls are generally consistent with my daughter as they get older. When they were younger, she was rare but she's now amongst like minded peers. If we are looking to use ECNL as the college scouting and training our daughters for their future college days, the pool play system isn't bad bc colleges have large rosters and pushes them to play for their position every week. It's earned, not given because we wrote a check. It also doubles up their potential group of friends at practices while reducing cliques or gives them more clique choices.

As for bad coaches and parent influences, I don't think any system is going to stop this. It's been a negative impact in regular team environments. The only way to stop bad coaches is to get rid of them. The only way to get rid of negative parent influence is to let them go when they threaten to go regardless of how great their player is. Let them drive the addition hour or two each day to practice.

Most recruiting is now very short, 10-11th grade, two years. I support the pool play to help the B team girls get an opportunity because leaving them in the B team environment for a year is 50% of their recruitment time period.

It's a win win situation in a competitive environment such as SURF. I wouldn't suggest Sharks or Rebels or Albion do it because their pool of players are not very deep. But at Surf, they have strong ECRL teams that can push their ECNL girls and be given an opportunity to move up if they earn it.

I have been thinking about pool play lately and maybe even signing my kid up. I have had great conversations with Deza and Piper. However, after our talk I found an article from US Soccer that kinda has me “stuck on stupid” regarding pool play.

In short, USSF takes the position that development is not about how a player is currently performing but about how good they can be in the future. So under pool play, it’s very possible to have a player with a very high performance ceiling benched and missing development because they are in a slump for a player that is currently performing better with a lower ceiling...why is this a good thing or am I missing something?

Guiding Principle 1. Talent can be developed in the "right" environment

A player always develops in and with his or her environment. There is a clear relationship between the players (performance) characteristics and the environment.

www.linkedin.com

 

[Eagle33]

Pool play teams suck. Period. You make a commitment to a team for the season, pay the large fee, and the team/coach should make an equal commitment to the player for the season. Invest in the development of a player that you see has potential. Otherwise you aren’t a coach, you are only a manager. You are only managing the talent and not developing shit. This is youth sports, not MLS. Teach, coach and grow US youth players. The kids don’t care about the name on their jersey or the letters after the team name, the parents sitting around eating wings and drinking beer during practice make it about that with their stupid egos.

You are definitely onto something here. This has been happening for years in big name clubs.
A coach recruit players that someone else was actually coaching and just managing the talent pool. Team wins and from outside it looks like a coach doing great job coaching, because team playing great and winning. This brings more players (not necessarily the talent) into the club.
On the other note, MW is a great coach and a person and just finished his A license as well. I wish him best of luck in DOC position.

 

[LASTMAN14]

You are definitely onto something here. This has been happening for years in big name clubs.
A coach recruit players that someone else was actually coaching and just managing the talent pool. Team wins and from outside it looks like a coach doing great job coaching, because team playing great and winning. This brings more players (not necessarily the talent) into the club.
On the other note, MW is a great coach and a person and just finished his A license as well. I wish him best of luck in DOC position.

I have watched MW coach since my youngest was U8 (U16 now). Use to set up scrimmages with him when he was at Newport Mesa. Each time we faced them his team played connecting soccer much better than the previous time. When he moved to Albion he had developed that 06 team into a great side. He just doesn't manage talent alone or draw it, but develops.

 

[Emma]

I have been thinking about pool play lately and maybe even signing my kid up. I have had great conversations with Deza and Piper. However, after our talk I found an article from US Soccer that kinda has me “stuck on stupid” regarding pool play.

In short, USSF takes the position that development is not about how a player is currently performing but about how good they can be in the future. So under pool play, it’s very possible to have a player with a very high performance ceiling benched and missing development because they are in a slump for a player that is currently performing better with a lower ceiling...why is this a good thing or am I missing something?

Guiding Principle 1. Talent can be developed in the "right" environment

A player always develops in and with his or her environment. There is a clear relationship between the players (performance) characteristics and the environment.

www.linkedin.com

When a player is in a slump, theoretically, in pool play, the player should be playing in the ECRL team games because at their current state, the player isn't up to par to play the ECNL opponents. So instead of sitting on the ECNL bench while they are in a slump, they can still be competing on game day at ECRL games. Once the player shows she is out her of slump, she will be chosen to be back in ECNL games.

 

[crush]

When a player is in a slump, theoretically, in pool play, the player should be playing in the ECRL team games because at their current state, the player isn't up to par to play the ECNL opponents.

Slump or just having a tough week is where mental and emotional BS can come into play from "some" coaches who have no clue about females at around 13-18 years of age. After much thought, I hate pool play for girls except for the one's who want soccer 24/7 and are truly all in and will be in camps and pools all the time to try and make the YNT. Individual soccer for 99% of the girls is not soccer, Moo!. The rest should learn how to play on a team and be friends and learn how to pass and go and be best friends. Pool play soccer is no bueno, Mugir!!

 

[BIGD]

If we are looking to use ECNL as the college scouting and training our daughters for their future college days,

And this is ultimately the root cause of the issues in club soccer. Parents and players participating with the objective to secure a financial result and personal gain. Not saying it’s necessarily right or wrong, but it’s drastically changed the youth sports landscape. It’s why the quality team experience has been replaced with individuals playing for personal gain and is a major contributor to the politics.

I think pool play effectiveness has everything to do with the intent and how it’s managed. If the intent is to create a fiercly dog eat dog competitive environment to improve players I think that will ultimately fail and be an awful experience. If the intent is to reach more players and help them improve, it could be beneficial. The key will be the communication. If the coaches have very clear communication and establish trust with the players AND the parents, it could go well. Based on my experience, even the best coaches would have trouble with this task.

 

[Emma]

And this is ultimately the root cause of the issues in club soccer. Parents and players participating with the objective to secure a financial result and personal gain. Not saying it’s necessarily right or wrong, but it’s drastically changed the youth sports landscape. It’s why the quality team experience has been replaced with individuals playing for personal gain and is a major contributor to the politics.

I think pool play effectiveness has everything to do with the intent and how it’s managed. If the intent is to create a fiercly dog eat dog competitive environment to improve players I think that will ultimately fail and be an awful experience. If the intent is to reach more players and help them improve, it could be beneficial. The key will be the communication. If the coaches have very clear communication and establish trust with the players AND the parents, it could go well. Based on my experience, even the best coaches would have trouble with this task.

When ECNL broke off from local leagues and established themselves as a training ground for elite players, it created an environment where competition is above team camaraderie. It works for some kids and they really enjoy it. I don't think it's the root cause of club soccer problems as non ECNL teams should remain local and retain local identities. Stay local and play local always worked for our son and works a lot better for us as a family. We don't do it for financial reasons or personal gains, we do it because our daughter enjoys playing soccer with very competitive and driven girls. If she ends up getting a scholarship or getting into a better academic school because of it, great. We aren't unrealistic parents focusing on soccer. School, work and volunteer activities are her priorities.

We hate the politics in soccer when parents or relatives get involved with threats or carrots. The root problem in club soccer is unrealistic/misguided parents and Clubs taking advantage of this to profit.

Through the years, it has been fun to see what MW has been able to do with all his teams, starting with the 06s.

 

[MyDaughtersAKeeper]

I have been thinking about pool play lately and maybe even signing my kid up. I have had great conversations with Deza and Piper. However, after our talk I found an article from US Soccer that kinda has me “stuck on stupid” regarding pool play.

In short, USSF takes the position that development is not about how a player is currently performing but about how good they can be in the future. So under pool play, it’s very possible to have a player with a very high performance ceiling benched and missing development because they are in a slump for a player that is currently performing better with a lower ceiling...why is this a good thing or am I missing something?

Guiding Principle 1. Talent can be developed in the "right" environment

A player always develops in and with his or her environment. There is a clear relationship between the players (performance) characteristics and the environment.

www.linkedin.com

Is the bulk of development coming from games or the practices? If practice is where talent is developed, and games are where it is tested, then playing on the ECRL team doesn't hurt the player as the player is training with the "pool" during the week and that is where the development happens.
Personally I think the "pool" approach is more appropriate at the younger ages. As the players get into HS then the focus is more on recruiting for college and other factors that motivate players that diminish the value of the "pool."

 

[SoccerLocker]

If your DD wants to play anywhere beyond club, aren't playing pools exactly what's in store for her? Rosters of ~30 all vying for starting spots.

Anson Dorrance takes it one step further at UNC. Each week players are ranked from 1-30 and it's posted publicly for all to see.

The transfer portal for women's college soccer is incredibly busy each year. I would guess that most of this is because these DDs haven't ever had to compete for time. Maybe it's a blessing to have them try it on for size before they commit to playing in college.

 

[Kicker4Life]

My dd is the opposite but it makes for a fun debate. I think the "go getter" for yourself first over friendship & teammates ((care for others before yourself)) is what sucks about soccer these days but trust me, I understand that mentality all too well. I dont think the go getter attitude will help the team win championship. The best college teams that win win by putting team first, not the one go getter. Good luck to your player in college.

I know I will regret this, but what is the difference between a “go getter” and a player with “ganas” (as you consistently reference)?