D1 college soccer under threat

outside! said:
D1 teams train much harder than club teams. One of the reasons is scholarships. You mention that you know many professional players that hated college sports. Boohoo for them. I hated working 30 hours/week at Burger King but I did it anyway to pay for my schooling and get a degree. College sports sound like much more fun than scrubbing fry racks and tomato slicers at 2:00 AM.

The USA is not like other countries. Over the years college sports have worked as excellent training for professional football, basketball and to some extent baseball players. We have the existing infrastructure of practice fields, stadiums, and other training facilities. College (and high school) soccer can be part of our training system for future professional players and have the added feature of providing an education for players that do not become professional. College sports also provide training for other students beside athletes like sports medicine, physical therapy, sports psychology, event management, etc.

I am happy that your DD is finding an alternate path that works for her, but it will be a long time before the Mexican WNT is anywhere near to the level of play of Stanford's women's team. I agree there are many things that are wrong with NCAA soccer, but that does not mean it is irrelevant or should be discarded.
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D1 training being harder is one of the reasons those that want to focus on academics should play club sports so they have more time to study!

You are a prime example of the problem. How can you be so certain of your conclusion? Have you been on the ground in Mexico and observed? Why are y’all killing the messenger for reporting back what I’m seeing?
 
MacDre said:
D1 training being harder is one of the reasons those that want to focus on academics should play club sports so they have more time to study!

You are a prime example of the problem. How can you be so certain of your conclusion? Have you been on the ground in Mexico and observed? Why are y’all killing the messenger for reporting back what I’m seeing?
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Your first comment is specifically why the D3 rules are in place. They are different than D1 & D2. NAIA has a different set of rules.

Why do you think college sport exists? More specifically, why do you think college "Olympic" sports exist?
 
Woobie06 said:
Lots of talk about pro women’s soccer for $50k a year top end opportunity in the US? What do they pay in the Mexican Women’s League and Europe? Same/Less??? Seems like tripping over dollars to pick up pennies in my book.

Committed, smart, talented young ladies that get very good grades can get into a great school (possibly in part because they are pretty good at soccer), get some scholarship money, grants, and aid to complete the education and come out with $60-75K out of school. Plus add the years of experience the student athlete will be ahead of the pro player chasing the dream...I think in the majority of cases the Women’s College Soccer Student/Athlete comes out on top financially and ahead career wise in the vast majority of cases. That’s one opinion, and I’m sure there are others.

Hopefully that changes and the women pro players will make more, but until the Women’s Pro Game can generate the income with sponsorships, attendance, partnerships, etc. there is going to be a gap until there is a significant paradigm shift in investment and the general public’s taste. Look at the WNBA...top salary is $215k. Best women’s league in the world for women’s BBall - 22 years old.

Why play collegiate sports? Lots of reasons...people have been discussing on here for days. Makes sense to some, not others. There is a lot to be learned in life outside the classroom. Hope everybody and their kids get to where they want to be and enjoy their journey getting there.
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You miss the point. By time my kid is 16, she gonna have to fish or cut bait with soccer. She will also finish University by 18 by working smarter not harder.
 
MacDre said:
You miss the point. By time my kid is 16, she gonna have to fish or cut bait with soccer. She will also finish University by 18 by working smarter not harder.
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See you said it... cut bait with soccer... to you, it is an objective. To her, it is a passion.
If you are not good enough quit. Good message.
Why not encourage her to play. Maybe she goes to Georgetown, Howard, or American U and plays. She makes connections in DC and becomes a vehicle for true change?
I will be blessed if I get to see my son play four more years of soccer starting in 2021. I don't care what level. I will sit there smile and enjoy.
 
Ellejustus said:
Why not pay the pro $50K a year plus the pros education for four years? You have to give up playing Rugby ((just a joke)) in college but make $200,000+ and the parents donlt have to folk out $45K to listen to a club soccer coach tell me he knows all the D1 coaches. I don;t care about that. Really, why should that matter that some club coach has a connection or relationship with coach?
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Why would the Women’s Pro Team pay the additional $200k for college...they can’t afford to players $250k.

Life is not fair, people cheat, steal, lie, play favorites, are charitable, do great things, love, are principled, and some are mean. It’s people. They suck sometimes. Life is a-lot like a game, figure out the rules, and play by them. I’m not saying it is right, I’m just saying it is like that sometimes.

The pay to play model is what is today, and what it will be tomorrow. As long as adults can make money from it, it’s not going anywhere anytime soon. You can like it, not like it, think it is unfair, that you have been screwed, and that it sucks...all the feelings of unjust and what should be will not change it. As long as the customer is buying the product the seller will have it on the shelf. I never said it was good product, but people are still buying and fighting each other in the aisles for it...like TP in a pandemic.

I know a few guys who bypassed the NFL Draft...played at ND and one at Texas 5-7th round projections. Decided on starting a “real” career due to the cost benefit. Leveraged their University’s Network and are doing exceptionally well. You hear about the top pro players in sport making all the money, there is story after story after story of players going pro, wasting the opportunity to get an education when they had it, blowing their money and being broke...what a waste. Guys making over $100mm playing pro ball and broke. In a lot of cases to me it looks like a fools errand.

This is my favorite story of a collegiate athlete and what can be done with the opportunity -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myron_Rolle#College_career
 
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MacDre said:
You miss the point. By time my kid is 16, she gonna have to fish or cut bait with soccer. She will also finish University by 18 by working smarter not harder.
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My son took so many AP classes in HS he will be a JR next year at SDSU. He said if he did a few extra classes back in HS and not played videos most of time, he could be SR in college at 19 next year. Lot's of ways to save a buck too. He'a all about working hard and saving and not wasting money. Me on the other hand, I have spent so much on soccer I'm pissed at myself, I think if I;m being honest. My son told me to get over it and learn from it. I told him learn how to shoot better so he doesn;t lose to me in nerf hoops horse game.
 
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Woobie06 said:
Why would the Women’s Pro Team pay the additional $200k for college...they can’t afford to players $250k.

Life is not fair, people cheat, steal, lie, play favorites, are charitable, do great things, love, are principled, and some are mean. It’s people. They suck sometimes. Life is a-lot like a game, figure out the rules, and play by them. I’m not saying it is right, I’m just saying it is like that sometimes.

The pay to play model is what is today, and what it will be tomorrow. As long as adults can make money from it, it’s not going anywhere anytime soon. You can like it, not like it, think it is unfair, that you have been screwed, and that it sucks...all the feelings of unjust and what should be will not change it. As long as the customer is buying the product the seller will have it on the shelf. I never said it was good product, but people are still buying and fighting each other in the aisles for it...like TP in a pandemic.

I know a few guys who bypassed the NFL Draft...played at ND and one at Texas 5-7th round projections. Decided on starting a “real” career due to the cost benefit. Leveraged their University’s Network and are doing exceptionally well. You hear about the top pro players in sport making all the money, there is story after story after story of players going pro, wasting the opportunity to get an education when they had it, blowing their money and being broke...what a waste. Guys making over $100mm playing pro ball and broke. In a lot of cases to me it looks like a

This is my favorite story of a collegiate athlete and what can be done with the opportunity -https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myron_Rolle#College_career
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Private funding dude and sponsorship. Life is changing and pay per play model in life is going to be weakened, but not destroyed Woobie. That was the old way to play. Now, lying and cheating will be last and being honest and hard working will be first. Give it some time sir. Plus, I just made up the $50K because you did. Were talking 1 or 2 % only so why the big debate? The rest can play pay to play like you said will be here tomorrow. didn;t play that game the last three years and now I'm being rewarded I guess for staying true to the truth as much as possible. Lady luck is coming around to others now. it's cool to watch!!
 
MacDre said:
You miss the point. By time my kid is 16, she gonna have to fish or cut bait with soccer. She will also finish University by 18 by working smarter not harder.
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I’m not missing the point. The point for you is different than the point for me. Your point is not the target our family is aiming for. That’s why I said earlier, you and I are in different lanes. It would be great if my kid could be done with University at 18. She will be done at 22. Different kid, different journey, which is ok. Your family has a lot of options which is a great place to be. I sincerely hope you guys get the to the destination you are aiming for.
 
Woobie06 said:
I’m not missing the point. The point for you is different than the point for me. Your point is not the target our family is aiming for. That’s why I said earlier, you and I are in different lanes. It would be great if my kid could be done with University at 18. She will be done at 22. Different kid, different journey, which is ok. Your family has a lot of options which is a great place to be. I sincerely hope you guys get the to the destination you are aiming for.
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Slacker... done at 22... I pushed myself and finished at 23.. do you know how many more college classes I got to take in the 6yr plan.
 
Woobie06 said:
I’m not missing the point. The point for you is different than the point for me. Your point is not the target our family is aiming for. That’s why I said earlier, you and I are in different lanes. It would be great if my kid could be done with University at 18. She will be done at 22. Different kid, different journey, which is ok. Your family has a lot of options which is a great place to be. I sincerely hope you guys get the to the destination you are aiming for.
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The problem is you guys have hogged all the lanes in soccer. It's tied to things and that is no bueno to be #1. I'm still fishing and waiting for that Big Fish story I dreamed about. I love that I can cut the bait anytime I want. My dd can go to any college she wants to without playing soccer. Were talking about pro soccer for the girls and college getting in the way for 1 or 2 out of 100 players. Its killing the sport for the best all because they want the whole freeway for themselves. it's so obvious. I see your point too :)
 
Ellejustus said:
Private funding dude and sponsorship. Life is changing and pay per play model in life is going to be weakened, but not destroyed Woobie. That was the old way to play. Now, lying and cheating will be last and being honest and hard working will be first. Give it some time sir. Plus, I just made up the $50K because you did. Were talking 1 or 2 % only so why the big debate? The rest can play pay to play like you said will be here tomorrow. didn;t play that game the last three years and now I'm being rewarded I guess for staying true to the truth as much as possible. Lady luck is coming around to others now. it's cool to watch!!
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Like you said Private Funding....Parent Funding, Sponsorship, Scholarship, Partnership....Somebody always pays. Coaches, facilities, trainers, Physio, equipment, insurance, etc..all costs money. Somebody or some entity has to cover the costs. This is an undisputed fact. $$$ will be exchanged.

Do I think the costs of youth soccer are ridiculous. Of course I do. Do I think what we have today is the best model, no. Would I like it to be better, absolutely. Are there barriers to entry, yes. Do some deserving kids get passed over, without a doubt.

I’m not a proponent of the current model or the dynamic in youth soccer today. I have zero control over it. I could vote with my pocketbook, and not have my daughter play. Problem is she likes playing, likes her team, and her teammates. We figure out a way and make it work like most. I don’t know what else to tell you.
 
Woobie06 said:
Like you said Private Funding....Parent Funding, Sponsorship, Scholarship, Partnership....Somebody always pays. Coaches, facilities, trainers, Physio, equipment, insurance, etc..all costs money. Somebody or some entity has to cover the costs. This is an undisputed fact. $$$ will be exchanged.

Do I think the costs of youth soccer are ridiculous. Of course I do. Do I think what we have today is the best model, no. Would I like it to be better, absolutely. Are there barriers to entry, yes. Do some deserving kids get passed over, without a doubt.

I’m not a proponent of the current model or the dynamic in youth soccer today. I have zero control over it. I could vote with my pocketbook, and not have my daughter play. Problem is she likes playing, likes her team, and her teammates. We figure out a way and make it work like most. I don’t know what else to tell you.
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You have control sir and we need people like you to make it better for the 2% and the 98% wanting college. I swear I dont think my kid today is 2% of the top cream. However, she has the ingredients I believe. The past system was full of politics, pay as you can, and I see former big time D1 coaches laughing at how the other coach picked wrong. What is not funny and leads to depression and other health issues, is the girl that their laughing about. I don;t like that and that needs to stop now!!!
 
vegasguy said:
I already have and you chose to ignore it. You changed the subject. I have played both college varsity (although not alot) and college club. College club, you pay for it yourself, you coach yourself or rely on a volunteer coach, you travel drink and have a great time. No fans and a different level of competition. You play for fun and teammates even though you use the school name as a conduit to competition. Whether you agree or not it is different. College varsity sport, and my experience is not D1, with a coach who is there pushing you in grades and in sport, playing for your school, your community and yes for a trophy while attending class is a blast and I was on the bench. The feeling is different and not transferable although you think it should be. I worked harder as a student athlete than I did as a club sport college athlete. There is also accountability with school sponsored sports. It is not there with club and you can not force it to be that way. Also, you have not had the experience of playing as Surf and playing for your high school. You lose in the finals at Surf you cry a bit, get pissed a bit and go get your In and Out and go home. You lose a high school state final you see an entire roster of players fall to the ground as if they got shot. Taking that away in college is wrong. Tell me why I am wrong in that thought.

Now you did not answer two questions.

What is F ing entitlement?
What is my limited experience?
and I will add a why do you care about US college soccer if you player is never going to experience it?
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You are NOT wrong in your analysis. However, you did not answer my question. I don’t care about the difference in the two, I want you to tell me why you think varsity sports are better for a person with no professional aspirations? Why does someone that wants to focus on academics need a professional coach? Do you think clubs sports give young people more time for studies than varsity sports?

It’s entitlement to think a student should be able to play varsity sports for experience instead of focusing on studies and future career while playing club due to love of the game.

Everyone’s experience is limited; this is why being open and listening is a very important skill.

I care because I think there is some serious de facto segregation going on within US soccer. I see a lot of people being excluded from mainstream US soccer for fabricated BS reasons. I think a system that excludes the poor from the outset and gives admissions preferences to a bunch of upper middle class kids that don’t want to go pro and only want the “experience” is unethical.
 
MacDre said:
I don’t understand the love affair with D1 sports. Most that I know hated the experience because it was akin to working full time while going to school. They did only because they were gonna eventually make millions.
College soccer players aren’t going to make millions so why not club sports?
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Many kids work full time when going to school. They have class, they have work, then they have homework.
 
vegasguy said:
See you said it... cut bait with soccer... to you, it is an objective. To her, it is a passion.
If you are not good enough quit. Good message.
Why not encourage her to play. Maybe she goes to Georgetown, Howard, or American U and plays. She makes connections in DC and becomes a vehicle for true change?
I will be blessed if I get to see my son play four more years of soccer starting in 2021. I don't care what level. I will sit there smile and enjoy.
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No more like sweetie you don’t have what it takes to play at the highest level but I love you. Focus on your studies and continue playing for fun. Win some lose some is the lesson and if it doesn’t kill you it’ll make you stronger. In the real world everyone doesn’t get a trophy.
Coach, your entitlement is coming out. After 16, if we know a kid can’t make it, why continue the lie? What’s with this everybody’s a winner and everybody gets a trophy? Fuck that...play club and study hard!
 
This is an interesting topic. My DD is sitting here amused by reading this stuff with me. Minority, college junior, plays in the Pac12 and loves every minute of it. From picking her classes first to the many, many benefits of being a student-athlete, she would do it again in a second. We are not upper middle class and had it not been for her soccer scholarship she would have done the community college route then transfer to get her degree. College soccer has given her far more opportunities than she ever would have had (says her). Is it a grind at times? Yes. Is it worth it? Yes.
 
Ellejustus said:
The problem is you guys have hogged all the lanes in soccer. It's tied to things and that is no bueno to be #1. I'm still fishing and waiting for that Big Fish story I dreamed about. I love that I can cut the bait anytime I want. My dd can go to any college she wants to without playing soccer. Were talking about pro soccer for the girls and college getting in the way for 1 or 2 out of 100 players. Its killing the sport for the best all because they want the whole freeway for themselves. it's so obvious. I see your point too :)
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Couple questions for you, I was hoping you could elaborate on.

1. How is college getting in the way of 1-2 out of 100 players?
2. Who is “you guys”?
3. Why are there no more lanes?

What’s funny to me about the 1-2 player argument is that it was our families biggest complaint about DA...designing a program with international rules for the super small sub-set of kids who will ever play them representing a country or play professionally. Seemed upside down to me.

Also, the goal for the vast majority of the consumers (parents) is college. Not pro. If I’m building a product, designing a service, trying to build a revenue stream I’m designing it so I can capture as many customers as possible. I’m designing so what I have works for 98% of the customers (those I am targeting, specialty, niche, etc.) and keeping them happy. I’m not worried about the 2% I may lose, but will likely try to figure out a way to catch them.

ECNL is selling college. Look at their marketing/messaging. They are not selling pro. Not one youth league in this country is selling pro. Maybe NWSL should open the draft to all players, not just players exiting college.
 
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