CSL Strong???

[Emma]

Agree here and that safety valve is the only thing that doesn't cause the entire CSL thing to come crashing down.

If you really wanted an honest assessment, you'd put evaluators in charge to assign flights based on points earned, tournaments, placement in cups and placement in prior league (plus the rankings of individual players coming and going from the team). But the question remains then who is better at making that assessment (considering bad results can take place in either league): the DOC and coaches, or an arbitrary rule system that has quotas, is mathematically irregular, and only takes a look at narrow criteria.

Not cost effective either. Everything is subjective except winning and losing. Then a petition process for times when it's needed due to losing a lot of players, gaining great players, or if team just made great advancement towards end of season or off season.

Oh wait - we had/have that in CSL.

 

[Grace T.]

Not cost effective either. Everything is subjective except winning and losing. Then a petition process for times when it's needed due to losing a lot of players, gaining great players, or if team just made great advancement towards end of season or off season.

Oh wait - we had/have that in CSL.

But we don’t because CSL sometimes doesn’t allow it (again due to imperfect info). Otherwise what’s the difference with allowing teams to pick? For example: my sons United team that should have started in silver instead of destroying its competition 12-0. Instead it’s just a game of trying to qualify for the next level and then avoiding relegation by whining about it

 

[Emma]

But we don’t because CSL sometimes doesn’t allow it (again due to imperfect info). Otherwise what’s the difference with allowing teams to pick? For example: my sons United team that should have started in silver instead of destroying its competition 12-0. Instead it’s just a game of trying to qualify for the next level and then avoiding relegation by whining about it

Sorry to hear that your team was in the wrong grouping. Was this just this spring or before covid?

 

[Grace T.]

Sorry to hear that your team was in the wrong grouping. Was this just this spring or before covid?

2 years ago. It wasn't the only team that petitioned to start up. My son had been on a team that had been trying to organize, won a few tournaments but fell apart when CSL said no to the petition to start silver. The good kids they had recruited to play just walked away because they didn't want to play bronze and suddenly they were under the number of players needed. He was lucky he got picked up by AYSO United at the last minute.

They are more lenient with the rel petition appeals than they are with the pro. And in the rel for silver I've now seen 2 local groupings where teams that lost every game didn't get relegated. In the current grouping this silver team that lost every game played, 3 of the teams could play silver elite....they wouldn't be at the top of the bracket but they could play....I'm curious to see how many CSL actually promotes out.

 

[Grace T.]

2 years ago. It wasn't the only team that petitioned to start up. My son had been on a team that had been trying to organize, won a few tournaments but fell apart when CSL said no to the petition to start silver. The good kids they had recruited to play just walked away because they didn't want to play bronze and suddenly they were under the number of players needed. He was lucky he got picked up by AYSO United at the last minute.

They are more lenient with the rel petition appeals than they are with the pro. And in the rel for silver I've now seen 2 local groupings where teams that lost every game didn't get relegated. In the current grouping this silver team that lost every game played, 3 of the teams could play silver elite....they wouldn't be at the top of the bracket but they could play....I'm curious to see how many CSL actually promotes out.

It's a self feeding cycle BTW. CSL doesn't want to promote recklessly because it wants to protect the competition level for the higher flights. Plus, if team does get sent to the higher flights and doesn't perform, they'll whine and complain about getting relegated....which makes them even more reluctant to promote teams which might otherwise be competitive because they can't then get rid of them. Pro/rel doesn't work without the rel part and except for the highest flight, they don't really want to do it because they know if they do it without the consent of the team it will blow that team up. And, at least for the youngers, the silver and bronze brackets will remain a mess unless they make even more brackets, which they seem reluctant to do not only because of the driving and admin issues, but because it also blows up the entire gold/silver/bronze thing.

 

[Eagle33]

Wow that's the most elitist thing I've seen on these boards. Those kids aren't worthy to play rec so get rid of them. You may as well tell your friend Gary "I want you to keep these subs away from me. I don't want any distractions from these whiny wannabes, just keep them out of my face."

That's not the solution...the solution is to make an appropriate tier for them. It's not their fault the soccer world has fractured so we don't have a unified development pathway. It's not their fault we have CSL v. SoCal so the bottom clubs have to play filler. It's not their fault Extras isn't part of the unified structure. It's not their fault adults care more about preserving their turf (whether US Soccer, Coast or AYSO) then coming up with them with a unified pathway.

And if we're really talking about pathways, hey how about Europe...everyone except the future pros play rec...your DS and DDs going on to play college ball just play higher level rec.

So I hear SoCal is making Rec tier for next season

 

[SoccerFan4Life]

So I hear SoCal is making Rec tier for next season

Leave Rec alone! Let ayso and other local organizations handle that.

 

[Grace T.]

Leave Rec alone! Let ayso and other local organizations handle that.

some major clubs set up rec leagues for the littlest ones. There’s one affiliated with real so cal in the west val, another one with the simi clubs in simi, and ole does a futsal league in the east val.It’s a way of identifying “talent” (aka not just soccer skills but kids close to the age line that are otherwise tall and fast) that you can put on your u9 teams so those u9 teams can go on and win promotions

it’s the strategy employed by ayso United which builds teams by drawing from a large rec base from kids that might otherwise play baseball or basketball but because they are there during soccer season ca. Be Id and sold on soccer. To its credit though at least ayso United has an exam which measures soccer skills, even if it does advantage strikers over defenders.

again the issue is these adult figures in the soccer world care more about protecting their turf than creating a unified promotion system like they have in other countries. So instead of kids getting assigned to appropriate levels based on their skill level, you have this mush of a tryout system where the parents are guessing if a team is appropriate and teams may take players not because they are ready but because they need bodies.

 

[Woodwork]

So recently came across an example of why the CSL tier system works imperfectly. So, in my son's 2019 bronze grouping one team swept all their games except for 1 which they tied. Against a new team coming up from AYSO, they won 12-0. Some of the games were closer including against my son's team 3-1 with both teams having good opportunities. They took promotion to silver. For the truncated 2020 season this promoted team was in a group with 5 other teams which had been together for a while, all of whom were gunning for silver elite. The newly promoted silver team did "upgrade" for the season, recruiting some strong kids on the grounds they were now silver and even upgrading their goalkeeper who was dropped and shifted to another bronze team. They lost every single game in their bracket, some by as many as 8 points.

So what do you do with this team? Relegate them to bronze where they'll lose their best players but still destroy the newly formed teams up and coming? Another team from the 2020 season is taking promotion which won only about 80% of its games. This team is far weaker than the previously promoted team and will likely play in the same silver bracket due to geography. Is it going to fare much better in the bracket with silver teams that have now been playing together for a while? At least the 2019 promoted team will now have someone to beat if they stay in silver.

Wait until you see what CSL actually does. First, I believe they didn't require all teams to participate in spring in light of the fact that the pandemic hurt their readiness, and I don't think they intend to punish those that participated this spring despite not being ready. Second, I have seen a lot of instances where they don't relegate a last place team. Especially at the younger ages, they will move up a whole bunch of teams to SE or Gold because those are new brackets at older ages and the last place teams just stay in silver. Or they see that there were a lot of close games and will likely be fine next year. Third, if you really read the CSL "System," they build in their own discretion. Most of the time, if the coach makes a good argument for staying in bracket, they stay in bracket.