CSL Strong???

Grace T. said:
You promote anyone that’s been around more than 2 years out of the bottom tier making it clear it’s for new teams (or teams in the penultimate tier that loses more than 50% of its players and are effectively new). If a team still has an exceptionally bad record (most such teams will have exploded) you allow them to play there too. If a team has an exceptionally good tournament season before you allow them to start the penultimate tier to avoid 15-0 monsters like my sons United team. It also eliminates the stigma of the lower tier( they can’t recruit good players because they are “just bronze”) and you have 3 intermediate tiers (for a total of 6-7 tiers). It would involve more driving and it would mean in the penultimate tier there would be very few games against disaster teams. Except for exceptional circumstances of voluntary relegation or a team reforming, there wouldn’t be relegation to the new tier. I’d also impose a dance with the one that brung you rule the first year of a teams promotion to levels higher than penultimate. Top teams in the new division skip penulrimate.
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And in a leap year you can promote the team with the tallest hair styles.

Or we deal internally with the "stigma" of being in the lowest rung of club soccer. Any kid who plays club is in rarified air relative to most other kids, but there are also other teams and players that get placed into higher levels of competition or recognition. You can learn to be happy with what you have or make a big change. Sometimes the answers are internal.

Bronze is great. I salute any kid playing soccer, playing club soccer, and I know my daughter is always positive when she meets another kid in club, too. They have more in common than other kids in school.
 
espola said:
Line them all up and let St. Luigi Scrosopi seed the circuits.

Or you can let logic help --

Assign each team to a small group at the beginning of the season. After a few games (3 for groups of 4) determine 1-2-3-4 in each group by whatever the league rules and tiebreakers are. Reform the group so #1 plays in a group of #1s down to #4 plays in a group of #4s. Repeat a few times until it is clear who the persistent winners are. Bracket #1 to #4 for a league playoff (or more for a longer playoff as the calendar permits).
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I like it (that itself is a sign there’s a problem)

the parents will hate it because that means by random chance there’s still a possibility of 12-0 blow outs, lots of driving, and they can’t be sure their little billy will be placed on that silver elite team if the stupid teammates do badly

the big clubs would hate it because their positions wouldn’t be secure and god forbid the b team should ever beat the a team. How can they poach players if they can’t promise a level?

the coaches will hate it because it puts them under enormous pressure to get through those early rounds. Will resort to the usual short cuts: big legged defender kicks goalkicks long, keeper punts, longballs, running game, foul game.

the admins won’t like it. Lots of work for them, lots of anti cheating steps will need to be taken in those early rounds, and lots of complaints of 12-0 victories

You can fix the 12-0 problem by seeding based on the prior years results but that’s not perfext
Woodwork said:
And in a leap year you can promote the team with the tallest hair styles.

Or we deal internally with the "stigma" of being in the lowest rung of club soccer. Any kid who plays club is in rarified air relative to most other kids, but there are also other teams and players that get placed into higher levels of competition or recognition. You can learn to be happy with what you have or make a big change. Sometimes the answers are internal.

Bronze is great. I salute any kid playing soccer, playing club soccer, and I know my daughter is always positive when she meets another kid in club, too. They have more in common than other kids in school.
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why call it bronze then? If it’s average then under the bell curve it should hold the most players and there should be players under it. If it’s below average the distribution shouldn’t be slated as heavily there

the bronze division also tends to swing wildly because of the entry of new teams. You had my sons team which beat almost all teams 10-0 to 15-0. Then there are wrecks of new teams that can’t win a single game.

the other issue is the bronze teams struggle to recruit good experienced players that can lift the team and lose their best players forcing the team to rebuild. How do you fix that?
 
Grace T. said:
I like it (that itself is a sign there’s a problem)

the parents will hate it because that means by random chance there’s still a possibility of 12-0 blow outs, lots of driving, and they can’t be sure their little billy will be placed on that silver elite team if the stupid teammates do badly

the big clubs would hate it because their positions wouldn’t be secure and god forbid the b team should ever beat the a team. How can they poach players if they can’t promise a level?

the coaches will hate it because it puts them under enormous pressure to get through those early rounds. Will resort to the usual short cuts: big legged defender kicks goalkicks long, keeper punts, longballs, running game, foul game.

the admins won’t like it. Lots of work for them, lots of anti cheating steps will need to be taken in those early rounds, and lots of complaints of 12-0 victories

You can fix the 12-0 problem by seeding based on the prior years results but that’s not perfext
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Eliminate blowouts with a mercy rule or make a team play a man down for every 3 goals they are ahead (or add players to the trailing team).

The initial groups can be based on geography to reduce long drives at least in that round, and distance can be factored into the lower groups as the season proceeds. I am assuming that the teams who have won their way into the higher groups will be more willing to travel further to maintain their positions.

We can still have voluntary assignment to "Flights", with the above procedures to be used within a flight. Otherwise, there will be too many teams to manage. The number of teams that can be accommodated by this scheme is limited by the length of the season and the number of games people are willing to play each week.
 
socalkdg said:
The 05 team will be in your division next year. Probably the best team you will play.
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Oh, I know that. My daughter played against them a couple of times when she was with SoCal Academy 05 Hazell. Those games were a battle. My money is on them to win this year's Cal South National Cup.
 
RedCard said:
Oh, I know that. My daughter played against them a couple of times when she was with SoCal Academy 05 Hazell. Those games were a battle. My money is on them to win this year's Cal South National Cup.
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If we win our quarterfinal game, we play them in the semis. You guys get to play them this weekend. :)
 
socalkdg said:
If we win our quarterfinal game, we play them in the semis. You guys get to play them this weekend. :)
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Yep...looks like we got placed in the famous “group of death”... Definitely some challenging games, but that’s why we’re going. Looking forward to it.
 
So recently came across an example of why the CSL tier system works imperfectly. So, in my son's 2019 bronze grouping one team swept all their games except for 1 which they tied. Against a new team coming up from AYSO, they won 12-0. Some of the games were closer including against my son's team 3-1 with both teams having good opportunities. They took promotion to silver. For the truncated 2020 season this promoted team was in a group with 5 other teams which had been together for a while, all of whom were gunning for silver elite. The newly promoted silver team did "upgrade" for the season, recruiting some strong kids on the grounds they were now silver and even upgrading their goalkeeper who was dropped and shifted to another bronze team. They lost every single game in their bracket, some by as many as 8 points.

So what do you do with this team? Relegate them to bronze where they'll lose their best players but still destroy the newly formed teams up and coming? Another team from the 2020 season is taking promotion which won only about 80% of its games. This team is far weaker than the previously promoted team and will likely play in the same silver bracket due to geography. Is it going to fare much better in the bracket with silver teams that have now been playing together for a while? At least the 2019 promoted team will now have someone to beat if they stay in silver.
 
Grace T. said:
So recently came across an example of why the CSL tier system works imperfectly. So, in my son's 2019 bronze grouping one team swept all their games except for 1 which they tied. Against a new team coming up from AYSO, they won 12-0. Some of the games were closer including against my son's team 3-1 with both teams having good opportunities. They took promotion to silver. For the truncated 2020 season this promoted team was in a group with 5 other teams which had been together for a while, all of whom were gunning for silver elite. The newly promoted silver team did "upgrade" for the season, recruiting some strong kids on the grounds they were now silver and even upgrading their goalkeeper who was dropped and shifted to another bronze team. They lost every single game in their bracket, some by as many as 8 points.

So what do you do with this team? Relegate them to bronze where they'll lose their best players but still destroy the newly formed teams up and coming? Another team from the 2020 season is taking promotion which won only about 80% of its games. This team is far weaker than the previously promoted team and will likely play in the same silver bracket due to geography. Is it going to fare much better in the bracket with silver teams that have now been playing together for a while? At least the 2019 promoted team will now have someone to beat if they stay in silver.
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So you come up with one example, therefore the whole system works imperfectly...hahahaha, that's so funny. I can show you an exhausting amount of teams that were placed in F2 or F1 that got absolutely destroyed and were obviously placed in the wrong group, so does that mean SoCal league works imperfectly as well. There is no perfect formula, you will always have cases where teams are not placed in the right level, but that doesnt mean throw out the baby with the bathwater!!! There was a team in Discovery this spring that lost 19-1, so there you go??? So leaving the choice to DOC's isn't always the answer either!
 
soccersc said:
So you come up with one example, therefore the whole system works imperfectly...hahahaha, that's so funny. I can show you an exhausting amount of teams that were placed in F2 or F1 that got absolutely destroyed and were obviously placed in the wrong group, so does that mean SoCal league works imperfectly as well. There is no perfect formula, you will always have cases where teams are not placed in the right level, but that doesnt mean throw out the baby with the bathwater!!! There was a team in Discovery this spring that lost 19-1, so there you go??? So leaving the choice to DOC's isn't always the answer either!
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a. But there's really no place to put this team. If you move them down to the bronze bracket they'll wreck the new teams coming in. If you keep them in the silver bracket, they'll have 1 team they can beat (and unless that team gets upgrades, wreck). You could make them drive long distances to a more balanced silver bracket but CSL doesn't like to do that because it leads to people lobbying to be placed into brackets they can win. If the entire point is to balance the scores, it's failing in these 2 examples.
b. It's a much more common problem in the bronze and silver levels where you have teams and players that have been at it a while. At the bronze level you get new teams like my son's AYSO team (example 3) that go in and destroy everyone 12-0 and then they aren't ready for league cup because they haven't had that experience. And you get new teams like the new AYSO team (example 4) in the bronze bracket which lose every game because they aren't playing in a new teams bracket.
c. Silver elite and gold tend to work a little better. There's less shame for a silver elite team that struggles to play down to silver (my son's current team has that dilemma). But take a relegation to bronze and the team tends to fall apart. I'd bet you a drink this team that lost every game DOES NOT get relegated, and it would make no sense in any case to promote a weaker team over them (which I bet, notwithstanding the obvious signs, will take the promotion).
d. The answer would seem that particularly in SoCal where we have a wealth of teams would be more brackets, but that would mean more driving for everyone, which is the main problem parents seem to protest.
e. The team in Discovery that gets destroyed though can adjust the following year relatively easily because again there is that choice. And they can sell it to the parents that it doesn't need to be forever. The teams in my example have no happy outcomes if the CSL rules are applied as is: the silver team will get relegated and stomp on the bronze competition, including a raw new team, the bronze team will take its promotion and get stomped on in the silver team's place (and more badly than that team), and the newly minted club team formerly AYSO will likely dissolve since the kids don't like to lose every game (many by double digits) and the parents will blame the coaches for not developing their kids (which should be playing MLS next after all).
 
Grace T. said:
a. But there's really no place to put this team. If you move them down to the bronze bracket they'll wreck the new teams coming in. If you keep them in the silver bracket, they'll have 1 team they can beat (and unless that team gets upgrades, wreck). You could make them drive long distances to a more balanced silver bracket but CSL doesn't like to do that because it leads to people lobbying to be placed into brackets they can win. If the entire point is to balance the scores, it's failing in these 2 examples.
b. It's a much more common problem in the bronze and silver levels where you have teams and players that have been at it a while. At the bronze level you get new teams like my son's AYSO team (example 3) that go in and destroy everyone 12-0 and then they aren't ready for league cup because they haven't had that experience. And you get new teams like the new AYSO team (example 4) in the bronze bracket which lose every game because they aren't playing in a new teams bracket.
c. Silver elite and gold tend to work a little better. There's less shame for a silver elite team that struggles to play down to silver (my son's current team has that dilemma). But take a relegation to bronze and the team tends to fall apart. I'd bet you a drink this team that lost every game DOES NOT get relegated, and it would make no sense in any case to promote a weaker team over them (which I bet, notwithstanding the obvious signs, will take the promotion).
d. The answer would seem that particularly in SoCal where we have a wealth of teams would be more brackets, but that would mean more driving for everyone, which is the main problem parents seem to protest.
e. The team in Discovery that gets destroyed though can adjust the following year relatively easily because again there is that choice. And they can sell it to the parents that it doesn't need to be forever. The teams in my example have no happy outcomes if the CSL rules are applied as is: the silver team will get relegated and stomp on the bronze competition, including a raw new team, the bronze team will take its promotion and get stomped on in the silver team's place (and more badly than that team), and the newly minted club team formerly AYSO will likely dissolve since the kids don't like to lose every game (many by double digits) and the parents will blame the coaches for not developing their kids (which should be playing MLS next after all).
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There probably isn't any place to put that team, but what I am saying the same thing can happen in SoCal league as well. This problem isn't specific to one type of league, it's universal. I think you are also looking at this through a youngers lense, as the kids get older this becomes less of a problem.
I think a lot of it has to do with players at the younger ages still don't know if they really like soccer, or they just want to play a sport, or their parents just want them to play. As they approach middle school those fridge players who didn't really want to play, or they are just average players, begin to drop off and the levels begin to balance out.

Here's the other major problem...Younger ages still have rec players wanting to play club, I think that's the biggest problem, club is not unique anymore at the younger ages so you get these lopsided teams from clubs that take ANYONE, and then you have other clubs that still treat it as "club" and only take players that are "club ready" If clubs would only take kids that can actually play, there distribution would'nt be so vast and teams would be more balanced at the younger ages.
 
soccersc said:
There probably isn't any place to put that team, but what I am saying the same thing can happen in SoCal league as well. This problem isn't specific to one type of league, it's universal. I think you are also looking at this through a youngers lense, as the kids get older this becomes less of a problem.
I think a lot of it has to do with players at the younger ages still don't know if they really like soccer, or they just want to play a sport, or their parents just want them to play. As they approach middle school those fridge players who didn't really want to play, or they are just average players, begin to drop off and the levels begin to balance out.

Here's the other major problem...Younger ages still have rec players wanting to play club, I think that's the biggest problem, club is not unique anymore at the younger ages so you get these lopsided teams from clubs that take ANYONE, and then you have other clubs that still treat it as "club" and only take players that are "club ready" If clubs would only take kids that can actually play, there distribution would'nt be so vast and teams would be more balanced at the younger ages.
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I agree the same thing can and does happen in SoCal as well. The difference, though, is no one is locked into anything so it makes it easier to adjust. The teams in my examples have no such flexibility (if CSL enforces the rules): the silver team would be relegated and destroy the bronze teams (and just get repromoted taking a spot away from another team that might be ready), the bronze team will be promoted and be destroyed itself, the silver teams will be locked into their spots instead of being moved up to silver elite, and my son's former AYSO United team still has to go through bronze and destroy all it's competition 12-0 which serves no one.

"actually play". At U9 yes you have some skilled players that know their craft. As previously stated, in the overwhelming majority of cases that does not include the goalkeeper (who should not be playing FT anyway) and many of those kids are just bigger and older and faster rather than skilled. And then you have my son's AYSO United team which came largely out of extras and just wrecks its competition. I don't think it's a solution to say "well it works when it gets older", if the youngers are a mess. Yeah, it works out when they get older, but there are a lot of bad collateral side effects along the way, including the overall focus on having to do what it takes to earn the promotion instead of you know, actually developing your players (like this team which took the promotion, dropped its goalkeeper for an upgrade, and yet still managed to lose all its games)
 
That was one of the nice things about league cup, which will continue next year. You have a tourney that puts everyone together. Gold teams usually get byes. They put a silver elite, a silver and two bronze teams together in about 16 groups. They then play a tournament that is similar to what you would see in State Cup. Good chance to prove yourself, as well as have data to use to get adjusted for the following year.
 
Grace T. said:
I agree the same thing can and does happen in SoCal as well. The difference, though, is no one is locked into anything so it makes it easier to adjust. The teams in my examples have no such flexibility (if CSL enforces the rules): the silver team would be relegated and destroy the bronze teams (and just get repromoted taking a spot away from another team that might be ready), the bronze team will be promoted and be destroyed itself, the silver teams will be locked into their spots instead of being moved up to silver elite, and my son's former AYSO United team still has to go through bronze and destroy all it's competition 12-0 which serves no one.

"actually play". At U9 yes you have some skilled players that know their craft. As previously stated, in the overwhelming majority of cases that does not include the goalkeeper (who should not be playing FT anyway) and many of those kids are just bigger and older and faster rather than skilled. And then you have my son's AYSO United team which came largely out of extras and just wrecks its competition. I don't think it's a solution to say "well it works when it gets older", if the youngers are a mess. Yeah, it works out when they get older, but there are a lot of bad collateral side effects along the way, including the overall focus on having to do what it takes to earn the promotion instead of you know, actually developing your players (like this team which took the promotion, dropped its goalkeeper for an upgrade, and yet still managed to lose all its games)
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If you want to fix it, you will have to go to all the clubs that take any kid and put them on a club team just to collect the fees. To them it is a business, when you are getting teams that have no reason to play club, you will get lopsided games. If clubs would only select kids that belong in club to their club teams and kids that are rec level go back and play rec, the leagues would be more competitive all around. But clubs want money so they will continue to take anyone willing to pay. Because no matter what you do or how you try to determine leagues there will always be a team at the bottom and a team at the top, no matter what league. Whether promotion/relegation or DOC placement, there is always going to be a team misplaced. I would argue that teams placed by DOC have way more teams misplaced than teams in promotion/relegation
 
soccersc said:
If you want to fix it, you will have to go to all the clubs that take any kid and put them on a club team just to collect the fees. To them it is a business, when you are getting teams that have no reason to play club, you will get lopsided games. If clubs would only select kids that belong in club to their club teams and kids that are rec level go back and play rec, the leagues would be more competitive all around. But clubs want money so they will continue to take anyone willing to pay. Because no matter what you do or how you try to determine leagues there will always be a team at the bottom and a team at the top, no matter what league. Whether promotion/relegation or DOC placement, there is always going to be a team misplaced. I would argue that teams placed by DOC have way more teams misplaced than teams in promotion/relegation
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Wow that's the most elitist thing I've seen on these boards. Those kids aren't worthy to play rec so get rid of them. You may as well tell your friend Gary "I want you to keep these subs away from me. I don't want any distractions from these whiny wannabes, just keep them out of my face."

That's not the solution...the solution is to make an appropriate tier for them. It's not their fault the soccer world has fractured so we don't have a unified development pathway. It's not their fault we have CSL v. SoCal so the bottom clubs have to play filler. It's not their fault Extras isn't part of the unified structure. It's not their fault adults care more about preserving their turf (whether US Soccer, Coast or AYSO) then coming up with them with a unified pathway.

And if we're really talking about pathways, hey how about Europe...everyone except the future pros play rec...your DS and DDs going on to play college ball just play higher level rec.
 
Grace T. said:
I agree the same thing can and does happen in SoCal as well. The difference, though, is no one is locked into anything so it makes it easier to adjust. The teams in my examples have no such flexibility (if CSL enforces the rules): the silver team would be relegated and destroy the bronze teams (and just get repromoted taking a spot away from another team that might be ready), the bronze team will be promoted and be destroyed itself, the silver teams will be locked into their spots instead of being moved up to silver elite, and my son's former AYSO United team still has to go through bronze and destroy all it's competition 12-0 which serves no one.

"actually play". At U9 yes you have some skilled players that know their craft. As previously stated, in the overwhelming majority of cases that does not include the goalkeeper (who should not be playing FT anyway) and many of those kids are just bigger and older and faster rather than skilled. And then you have my son's AYSO United team which came largely out of extras and just wrecks its competition. I don't think it's a solution to say "well it works when it gets older", if the youngers are a mess. Yeah, it works out when they get older, but there are a lot of bad collateral side effects along the way, including the overall focus on having to do what it takes to earn the promotion instead of you know, actually developing your players (like this team which took the promotion, dropped its goalkeeper for an upgrade, and yet still managed to lose all its games)
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Here are some examples for you...this took like 2 minutes to find...I just picked a random age group B2010 in SCDSL Spring these 3 teams are getting blown out by 5-7 goals a game on average. That's just one age group randomly picked at F2. It happens at all levels, then they tell the parents something like, well it was our first year in F2 so it is expected and they come back the next year and same thing happens, but maybe they win one more, so they tell the parents, see we got a little better even though they only won 1 or 2 more games, so parents come back again to F2 but by now all the good F2 teams are playing F1 so they win more than half the games and parents are so excited, I've seen it, too many times

 
Grace T. said:
Wow that's the most elitist thing I've seen on these boards. Those kids aren't worthy to play rec so get rid of them. You may as well tell your friend Gary "I want you to keep these subs away from me. I don't want any distractions from these whiny wannabes, just keep them out of my face."

That's not the solution...the solution is to make an appropriate tier for them. It's not their fault the soccer world has fractured so we don't have a unified development pathway. It's not their fault we have CSL v. SoCal so the bottom clubs have to play filler. It's not their fault Extras isn't part of the unified structure. It's not their fault adults care more about preserving their turf (whether US Soccer, Coast or AYSO) then coming up with them with a unified pathway.

And if we're really talking about pathways, hey how about Europe...everyone except the future pros play rec...your DS and DDs going on to play college ball just play higher level rec.
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Why is that elitist...that is how kids can develop. You don't put a struggling student that has scored below average on state testing in a gate class...they would get frustrated and really want to quit...put them at a level that they can succeed and let them love the game and enjoy it rather than getting waxed every weekend and paying a ridiculous amount of money at a level they aren't ready for. Continue to work on their own and get better then go try club.

You are one of the parents that want to give every kid a trophy, that is the problem these days, kids don't understand hard work, they just expect it to be given to them...kids feel they are entitled now because even when they don't work their hardest they still get a trophy or an award because we are afraid to make little Johnny sad....so unfortunate
 
soccersc said:
Here are some examples for you...this took like 2 minutes to find...I just picked a random age group B2010 in SCDSL Spring these 3 teams are getting blown out by 5-7 goals a game on average. That's just one age group randomly picked at F2. It happens at all levels, then they tell the parents something like, well it was our first year in F2 so it is expected and they come back the next year and same thing happens, but maybe they win one more, so they tell the parents, see we got a little better even though they only won 1 or 2 more games, so parents come back again to F2 but by now all the good F2 teams are playing F1 so they win more than half the games and parents are so excited, I've seen it, too many times

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So why isn't that an acceptable outcome. In my promoted team scenario that would mean the team has the option to advance or stay put and know they aren't locked into anything.

soccersc said:
Why is that elitist...that is how kids can develop. You don't put a struggling student that has scored below average on state testing in a gate class...they would get frustrated and really want to quit...put them at a level that they can succeed and let them love the game and enjoy it rather than getting waxed every weekend and paying a ridiculous amount of money at a level they aren't ready for. Continue to work on their own and get better then go try club.

You are one of the parents that want to give every kid a trophy, that is the problem these days, kids don't understand hard work, they just expect it to be given to them...kids feel they are entitled now because even when they don't work their hardest they still get a trophy or an award because we are afraid to make little Johnny sad....so unfortunate
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Ha ha. That's funny. I'm the furthest from that kind of parent and have actually from time to time been accused by relatives and friends about being a little harsh with the kids. In both education and sports, I actually believe in tiering and I'm a very harsh critic of the plan to level the math playing field in California until 11th grade.

Which is why I say the kids should have an appropriate path way (not everyone getting the same path way). The struggling student shouldn't be put on the flight 1 team. But that struggling student should have a way (mapped out by those in charge) to be put on an appropriate levelled team instead of just getting dropped and the coach waiving too bad so sad see yah next year.

And if you really meant that club ball should be accessible only for the select few, well that select few should be real small....future pros only, like in the rest of the world. Everyone else including your DS or DD can play tiered rec.

"All those in favor of going A and B next year for the U8 program, raise your hand."
 
Grace T. said:
I agree the same thing can and does happen in SoCal as well. The difference, though, is no one is locked into anything so it makes it easier to adjust. The teams in my examples have no such flexibility (if CSL enforces the rules): the silver team would be relegated and destroy the bronze teams (and just get repromoted taking a spot away from another team that might be ready), the bronze team will be promoted and be destroyed itself, the silver teams will be locked into their spots instead of being moved up to silver elite, and my son's former AYSO United team still has to go through bronze and destroy all it's competition 12-0 which serves no one.

"actually play". At U9 yes you have some skilled players that know their craft. As previously stated, in the overwhelming majority of cases that does not include the goalkeeper (who should not be playing FT anyway) and many of those kids are just bigger and older and faster rather than skilled. And then you have my son's AYSO United team which came largely out of extras and just wrecks its competition. I don't think it's a solution to say "well it works when it gets older", if the youngers are a mess. Yeah, it works out when they get older, but there are a lot of bad collateral side effects along the way, including the overall focus on having to do what it takes to earn the promotion instead of you know, actually developing your players (like this team which took the promotion, dropped its goalkeeper for an upgrade, and yet still managed to lose all its games)
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No One is locked in CSL either - there's a petition that is generally granted. Only time it's not granted is if your coach lies to you about petitioning and it's probably because the coach knows the team is not ready for the next level but unrealistic parents parents kept pushing for a higher flight.

We've been pushed into a higher flight by parents and DOC. It caused A LOT of problems. Losing a lot causes ugly sides of people to come out.
 
Emma said:
No One is locked in CSL either - there's a petition that is generally granted. Only time it's not granted is if your coach lies to you about petitioning and it's probably because the coach knows the team is not ready for the next level but unrealistic parents parents kept pushing for a higher flight.

We've been pushed into a higher flight by parents and DOC. It caused A LOT of problems. Losing a lot causes ugly sides of people to come out.
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Agree here and that safety valve is the only thing that doesn't cause the entire CSL thing to come crashing down.

If you really wanted an honest assessment, you'd put evaluators in charge to assign flights based on points earned, tournaments, placement in cups and placement in prior league (plus the rankings of individual players coming and going from the team). But the question remains then who is better at making that assessment (considering bad results can take place in either league): the DOC and coaches, or an arbitrary rule system that has quotas, is mathematically irregular, and only takes a look at narrow criteria.
 
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