College Entrance Scam includes former Yale Women's Soccer Coach

Lambchop said:
So interesting about the class action law suit. So with 65,000 applicants to USC this last year, one students family cheated to get their daughter in, so which of the approximately 60,000 students who did not get in can prove they were the "one" who didn't make it because of that student. If you are that good of a student/athlete etc. you probably applied to 8 or 9 schools and got in one of your school choices. A bigger problem that needs to be addressed is the number of international students, in the THOUSANDS, who inter US universities thus taking spots of US students. Universities love international students because in most cases they pay all cash at a higher tuition rate than in state students. How verified are their classes, transcripts, and schools?? The current charges are bad but the problem with international students is potentially far worse . Certainly there are many qualified international students but with the large numbers I would imagine there are many, many who are not as qualified as US applicants.
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Maybe looking for a quick settlement?
 
Doesn't matter if you're Mossimo or Donthavemo, if you're not around to raise your kids, something or someone else will.

And I'm no pious person, but imo the secularization of this country is a contributing factor to its growing immorality. This ordeal could be Exhibit A.
 
End of the Line said:
OK, how much more should UCLA have paid in salary and taxpayer dollars to hire additional auditors to have ensured in advance that this never happened? How much should UCLA pay in salary to additional staff to audit every other esoteric type of potential fraud to ensure it doesn't happen in advance? Should they have been paying someone $50,000 a year to make sure that one person in history didn't slip through based on this particular kind of fraud? Should it hire someone else to make sure this doesn't happen with the music or film departments? And then multiply that number by every UC plus and at least Cal Poly. That's just a waste of money. Seriously, if you'd known that UCLA had been paying someone $50K a year to prevent this kind of fraud a year ago, when it could have been using that money on student services or a scholarship instead, you'd probably also be saying it was wasting money.

The fact is that UCLA and other schools put a lot of money and effort into compliance and they can't catch everything, and that should not be the standard. What you expect is perfect oversight, not appropriate oversight.
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As with any organization, this kind of oversight is not so much a position (unless they hire an auditor - which is overkill) but establishing policies and an approval chain so there’s accountability. I mean it’s good that coaches have the authority to make these decisions but if you add a layer or two of approvals, it at least makes it more complicated to implement any type of scheme.

Re: lawsuit - most colleges have insurance that will cover suits like these and more than likely if they can make a decent enough case they’ll settle out of court. Insurance companies on the flipside will start requiring the processes and oversight in place or charge higher premiums.
 
Supermodel56 said:
As with any organization, this kind of oversight is not so much a position (unless they hire an auditor - which is overkill) but establishing policies and an approval chain so there’s accountability. I mean it’s good that coaches have the authority to make these decisions but if you add a layer or two of approvals, it at least makes it more complicated to implement any type of scheme.

Re: lawsuit - most colleges have insurance that will cover suits like these and more than likely if they can make a decent enough case they’ll settle out of court. Insurance companies on the flipside will start requiring the processes and oversight in place or charge higher premiums.
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Wasn't the admissions department another layer? At UCLA, they required the girl to be rostered for at least a year to be enrolled. Naturally, the admissions department assumed that the coach would have incentive to recruit legit players to make the team better. They didn't anticipate that, as schools began to allow rosters to balloon, coaches would sell off the last few spots on the team. It's a pretty easy fix.
 
Glen said:
Wasn't the admissions department another layer? At UCLA, they required the girl to be rostered for at least a year to be enrolled. Naturally, the admissions department assumed that the coach would have incentive to recruit legit players to make the team better. They didn't anticipate that, as schools began to allow rosters to balloon, coaches would sell off the last few spots on the team. It's a pretty easy fix.
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Yeah, there’s a chance coaches may not have as many verbal commits to give? They have to have more than their roster - take for example, coach offers athlete when she/he’s in 8th-9th grade, but then athlete gets injured or declines in talent. That kid will still get to attend the school (no scholarship money)... but he will still have to fill that roster spot.
 
I would think seeing these prominent parents get arrested and having their careers destroyed is a pretty good deterrent. But in any event, shutting down this particular athlete scam doesn't seem all that difficult. You can task the admissions office with directly and independently verifying the applicant's participation in any sport (similar to the way they might verify a high school transcript) before finalizing any offer of admission in which an athletic recommendation is taken into account. The key to good due diligence is never to rely on just one person/type of source. Further, all athletics coaches (or anyone else entitled to make an internal recommendation upon which admissions might relay) should be required to file a disclosure form with the admissions office identifying all financial and/or personal connections with any athletics organization outside of the college. The form should be required to be submitted before they are hired and updated quarterly thereafter.
 
guessing most of these parents do not spend time behind bars. Charge them with a felony, leaving a spot on their record, give them community service at the the university, expel their kids and fine each the max 250k. Most of them will be let go by their companies anyway.
 
SocalPapa said:
I would think seeing these prominent parents get arrested and having their careers destroyed is a pretty good deterrent. But in any event, shutting down this particular athlete scam doesn't seem all that difficult. You can task the admissions office with directly and independently verifying the applicant's participation in any sport (similar to the way they might verify a high school transcript) before finalizing any offer of admission in which an athletic recommendation is taken into account. The key to good due diligence is never to rely on just one person/type of source. Further, all athletics coaches (or anyone else entitled to make an internal recommendation upon which admissions might relay) should be required to file a disclosure form with the admissions office identifying all financial and/or personal connections with any athletics organization outside of the college. The form should be required to be submitted before they are hired and updated quarterly thereafter.
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The parents likely won’t get jail time... most likely a hefty fine and community service. What they should do is rescind their diplomas.
 
Supermodel56 said:
Yeah, there’s a chance coaches may not have as many verbal commits to give? They have to have more than their roster - take for example, coach offers athlete when she/he’s in 8th-9th grade, but then athlete gets injured or declines in talent. That kid will still get to attend the school (no scholarship money)... but he will still have to fill that roster spot.
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Verbal commits aren't worth the paper they aren't written on, and thus cost the coach nothing.
 
Dos Equis said:
Can I answer, please? I would pay ZERO, nothing, zilch additional $ for additional oversight. The people that were already there (coaches, admissions staff, athletic department) failed to provide appropriate oversight, in many cases. Yes, mistakes are made, no one is perfect, but they did not do their job. For example ...

At USC, a non-kicker made the admit/walk-on list/roster for football. I know several people who have played football at USC, including ones that were "walk-ons." This list is a very closely controlled and monitored list by the coaching staff. You do not accidentally end up there, or go unnoticed once on.

At UCLA, a non-recruited "soccer" player (I am being generous) received an athletic admit and was included in the women's soccer roster and media guide. Those guides and rosters are edited and reviewed by multiple people including, in most cases, the coaching staff.

Choose the explanation -- complicity or incompetence. They failed to provide the appropriate oversight of their programs, or exhibited extremely poor judgment.
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Again, more oversight should also go into the THOUSANDS of accepted international students across the US. How closely are their schools, classes, grades, tests and transcripts checked. They are big money for the universities and take up thousands of spots that could have been filled by US students!
 
SocalPapa said:
I would think seeing these prominent parents get arrested and having their careers destroyed is a pretty good deterrent. But in any event, shutting down this particular athlete scam doesn't seem all that difficult. You can task the admissions office with directly and independently verifying the applicant's participation in any sport (similar to the way they might verify a high school transcript) before finalizing any offer of admission in which an athletic recommendation is taken into account. The key to good due diligence is never to rely on just one person/type of source. Further, all athletics coaches (or anyone else entitled to make an internal recommendation upon which admissions might relay) should be required to file a disclosure form with the admissions office identifying all financial and/or personal connections with any athletics organization outside of the college. The form should be required to be submitted before they are hired and updated quarterly thereafter.
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Filling out forms isn't going to stop someone who is taking bribes. Also, the admission's office verifying participation in a sport doesn't help with women's soccer. USSF doesn't let the girls play HS and, as was shown by the former USC coach, he ran a comp club that did verify participation.

OMG, I just realized this is much bigger than the conspiracy that supermodel56 claims it to be. This isn't just about a cabal of rich people, elite universities (plus Wake Forest), and soccer DOCs working together to sabotage college sports programs and subjugate the middle and lower class. US Soccer must also be involved. Now we finally have an explanation for the GDA's HS ban that makes sense.
 
espola said:
Verbal commits aren't worth the paper they aren't written on, and thus cost the coach nothing.
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I can’t say I know from first hand re:this... however, from most sources I’ve read, while not legally binding in any way, it seems like most coaches honor their verbal commits - at worst case they will let the kid attend the school even if they lose the scholarship dollars or don’t make team roster. True?
 
Supermodel56 said:
I can’t say I know from first hand re:this... however, from most sources I’ve read, while not legally binding in any way, it seems like most coaches honor their verbal commits - at worst case they will let the kid attend the school even if they lose the scholarship dollars or don’t make team roster. True?
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Would you consider a coach honorable if he is selling spots on his roster?

Question #2 - now that we know that the count of dishonorable coaches is higher than zero, how high is it?
 
Supermodel56 said:
I can’t say I know from first hand re:this... however, from most sources I’ve read, while not legally binding in any way, it seems like most coaches honor their verbal commits - at worst case they will let the kid attend the school even if they lose the scholarship dollars or don’t make team roster. True?
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Met the founder and former President of one the the most prestigious clubs in East Coast last year at a non-soccer event. Had two kids verbally committed to Ivy League schools. Coaches both left/replaced before their senior year in HS. Commits not honored by new coaches.

Verbal commits . . . keep demonstrating interest to other schools, keep studying for SAT/ACT, keep up the grades and AP courses. Keep working hard and improving on the field. You are one bad season, one better offer, or one ethically challenged coach away from having nothing.

On the later, we all know a few coaches with issues. Is it worth the risk?
 
San Diego connection to the business, via Las Vegas --

An affidavit in support of a criminal complaint, unsealed Tuesday, alleges that Elisabeth Kimmel “participated in the college recruitment scheme by conspiring to use bribery to facilitate her daughter’s admission to Georgetown as a purported tennis recruit, and her son’s admission to USC as a purported track recruit.”

Her daughter graduated from Georgetown in 2017 but was never a member of the tennis team, according to the document.

Her son — who is not on the USC track team — received an email from an adviser ahead of the fall semester, asking about USC track practice. The son assumed it was a mistake and was generally “unaware of the circumstances surrounding his admission to USC,” according to the affidavit.
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https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime...ts-charged-in-college-bribery-scheme-1616558/
 
Dos Equis said:
Met the founder and former President of one the the most prestigious clubs in East Coast last year at a non-soccer event. Had two kids verbally committed to Ivy League schools. Coaches both left/replaced before their senior year in HS. Commits not honored by new coaches.

Verbal commits . . . keep demonstrating interest to other schools, keep studying for SAT/ACT, keep up the grades and AP courses. Keep working hard and improving on the field. You are one bad season, one better offer, or one ethically challenged coach away from having nothing.

On the later, we all know a few coaches with issues. Is it worth the risk?
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Absolutely, makes sense - agree with gotta keep everything up. I recognize that when coaches leave, all bets are definitely off. Just curious if it's the same coach, how many keep their verbal commits - even if they decide to change direction... so lets say coach lands a better player or you game declines after he verbally committed to you? Do they usually still let you attend the school but w/o scholarship money (if any was discussed?)

The other thing, if you verbally commit, how do you demonstrate interest to other schools without offending the school you "committed" to? I thought that was a big no-no and reflects poorly?
 
Supermodel56 said:
Absolutely, makes sense - agree with gotta keep everything up. I recognize that when coaches leave, all bets are definitely off. Just curious if it's the same coach, how many keep their verbal commits - even if they decide to change direction... so lets say coach lands a better player or you game declines after he verbally committed to you? Do they usually still let you attend the school but w/o scholarship money (if any was discussed?)

The other thing, if you verbally commit, how do you demonstrate interest to other schools without offending the school you "committed" to? I thought that was a big no-no and reflects poorly?
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The interest is with the college -- keep up the admissions visits, the tours, fill out required forms and go to their local receptions like a normal applicant. If your status changes late, you will likely be a normal applicant like everyone else, and with luck a soccer coach may be able to put in a good word with admissions.

If a player commits early, then their dedication to soccer/fitness/school declines, that player has failed to live up to their side of the deal, and should have no expectations. My child's future college coach warned her that they would monitor her over the months (years) between her commit and final signing, She had to maintain her grades and her fitness if she expected to sign.
 
Dos Equis said:
The interest is with the college -- keep up the admissions visits, the tours, fill out required forms and go to their local receptions like a normal applicant. If your status changes late, you will likely be a normal applicant like everyone else, and with luck a soccer coach may be able to put in a good word with admissions.

If a player commits early, then their dedication to soccer/fitness/school declines, that player has failed to live up to their side of the deal, and should have no expectations. My child's future college coach warned her that they would monitor her over the months (years) between her commit and final signing, She had to maintain her grades and her fitness if she expected to sign.
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Totally get that, not talking about a kid slacking. Obviously needs to keep everything up - just referring to things beyond their control.

To me it would seem like the benefit of early verbal commits is that you can now just focus on what you do without the stress of not knowing where you’ll end up. It’s much different already knowing you’ve landed somewhere and just focusing on your work through HS vs. the added stress of the unknown and having to market yourself keep reaching out to coaches, etc... If my DD can spend her weekends and breaks focusing on her school projects and training instead of going on school visits or to more ID camps, that would be wonderful.
 
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