Cal Berkeley Coach (women) abusive

dk_b said:
you don’t think players should be able to earn money from their name and likeness? What about coaches marketing themselves as “Coach X from College Y” while they host a camp?
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like Player A saying, “I was all Pac-12 playing for [University] and have played for the US. Come to my 3-day intensive camp!” That’s not ok to you?
 
msoccerm said:
Of course there would be compensation for anyone playing on the senior team - it would be at least enough to cover costs or no one would play. To not lose eligibility for college soccer - the key is to NOT have an agent and NOT actually earn a living from playing.
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Women have played “pro” in many sports for many years for less than what it costs to do so.
The average salary in Liga MX Femenil is around 3400 pesos, or about 170 USD per month. That’s up from about 150 USD per month in the initial year. It’s a little above Mexican minimum wage.
 
Soccerfan2 said:
Women have played “pro” in many sports for many years for less than what it costs to do so.
The average salary in Liga MX Femenil is around 3400 pesos, or about 170 USD per month. That’s up from about 150 USD per month in the initial year. It’s a little above Mexican minimum wage.
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True but not true. Liga MX started as a developmental league U-24 league. I think each team was allowed 2 players over 23 and no foreign players were allowed.

FiFA has begun their pilot for Mexico’s YNT. The league is opening up to foreign players with LigaMX Femenil president pledging to make it the best women’s league in the world, which means they have to spend more on players. Liga MX has 18 teams which represents an excellent opportunity for the right players.

Most of those players also received free University.
 
I used to be a pro. I shared a 2 bedroom with 1 window with 4 other pros. We carpooled in a 1987 Nissan Maxima everywhere, ate gas station sandwiches and trained in between going to graduate school, night jobs, day jobs, baby sitting, and whatever else kept the lights on. Agents ya right, even if you had one they took more than was worth it. Sponsors money, umm no. There’s usually1 maybe 2 females on the planet in any sport making endorsement money. The rest get gear or appearance money. And that does not buy food at Vons or the street markets. One time we did get a pair of diadora’s from a Turkish guy who “liked” one of us. Oh and no health insurance cause pro female teams don’t do that so well. So hope your parents like you and you can stay on their coverage until your 25. There’s nothing better than Scandinavian doctor visits or asking your volunteer Italian goal keeper coach how do you say pink eye in Italian. But it’s great, it really is but it’s not for a kid. Go to fucking college. They feed you there. They have trainers and shelter and you can workout for free. Being a pro is not training part time with no risk. Pro means you have a job. That job means you have to perform or your gone. And gone means your back home is your bedroom with your mom asking you “honey what happened you were doing so good!”And your dad looking at you like your a failure. While going back to your college begging for your old trainer if they can ice your knee for you, and your college coach telling the freshman you “just got back” from being a pro. It’s great that girls now can travel and have social media, can train and talk about pro. But seriously have them go to college.
 
eastbaysoccer said:
Great experience playing soccer as a female but it does not pay the bills and the lost income adds up in the end.
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This simply is not 100% true and times have possibly changed since suzysoccer1 played pro. It sounds like she was just an above average player or her experience would have been better. A lot of players overseas are playing and getting a degree. There are also a lot of girls who played in college got their degree who are making the same amount of money as a pro because they can't find a decent paying job because they couldn't do internships while at university.

To play for ones country is such an honour. I guess the difference is that it is near impossible in the USA - where in other countries its quite achievable.
 
msoccerm said:
This simply is not 100% true and times have possibly changed since suzysoccer1 played pro. It sounds like she was just an above average player or her experience would have been better. A lot of players overseas are playing and getting a degree. There are also a lot of girls who played in college got their degree who are making the same amount of money as a pro because they can't find a decent paying job because they couldn't do internships while at university.

To play for ones country is such an honour. I guess the difference is that it is near impossible in the USA - where in other countries its quite achievable.
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I had friend in grade school tell all of us that he would become a Pro Surfer. I thought it was awesome goal. Surf for a living, what's not to like about that. The kids thought it was cool but the parents all said, "No one can make a living surfing and you will just become a hippie smoking hippie lettuce." No joke. So many thought it was pie in the sky. I didnt and never did Mike Parsons. Great job bro not listening to all the nay sayers. Live life to the full. Watch out for the cheaters and snakes and all will be good. Cool thing about surfing, you can;t cheat unless your Hollywood making a surf movie. This guy made a living surfing and to my knowledge was not a hippie and did not do drugs. Keep your dreams alive!!! Plus he was 51 on this wave.


 
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msoccerm said:
This simply is not 100% true and times have possibly changed since suzysoccer1 played pro. It sounds like she was just an above average player or her experience would have been better. A lot of players overseas are playing and getting a degree. There are also a lot of girls who played in college got their degree who are making the same amount of money as a pro because they can't find a decent paying job because they couldn't do internships while at university.

To play for ones country is such an honour. I guess the difference is that it is near impossible in the USA - where in other countries its quite achievable.
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Agreed. My players experience doesn’t resemble Suzy’s. I also want to emphasize that all of my players coaches in Mexico stress the importance of a good education. Club Tijuana has coddled my players group with mandatory after practice meetings with sports psychologist and no pressure with an emphasis on fun.

I think Mexico will have the best women’s league in the world because the cost of living is so low. For example, I have a friend that’s a medical doctor in TJ and he makes about $1,000 per month and enjoys an upper middle class lifestyle. A job that pays 100 bucks per week is a good job in Mexico. So, if a college graduate can get a $20,000 contact playing in Guadalajara, Mexico City, Monterrey, TJ, it’s the equivalent of getting 100-150k to play in the NWSL in places like LA, Washington DC, or New York. I think Liga MX will be much more attractive overall than going to Europe when you consider weather, food, and quality of living.

My players coach from Baja California told her that if she went with the Rayados she would also have a scholarship to attend Tec de Monterrey. So, for players in Texas, Arizona, California, Nevada, Washington, & Oregon that are YNT quality and considering P5 Universities I think it’s irresponsible to not consider Liga MX teams at this point. I’m kinda a school snob and portability of a degree is important to me so Tec de Monterrey is the only University in Mexico that my family has seriously considered. There are other good universities in Mexico but the degrees are not very portable. Club Tijuana players CAN go to college in San Diego. Rayados and Tigres players CAN go to college in Texas.

I also understand not many families are gonna move to the interior of Mexico to pursue soccer dreams; however, some players will benefit greatly even if it’s just for cultural immersion. I think players that are considering the NWSL draft will find Liga MX Femenil superior in most aspects and benefit the most from Liga MX Femenil opening up to foreign talent.

I attended the world cup in France last year and I expected the International level of play to be higher that what I see in Mexico. It’s not. I specifically went to see Tobin Heath and was disappointed. Maybe she had a bad tournament. Also keep in mind that my players team regularly scrimmages against boys teams in preparation for competition so the level of play is very high.
 
suzysoccer1 said:
I used to be a pro. I shared a 2 bedroom with 1 window with 4 other pros. We carpooled in a 1987 Nissan Maxima everywhere, ate gas station sandwiches and trained in between going to graduate school, night jobs, day jobs, baby sitting, and whatever else kept the lights on. Agents ya right, even if you had one they took more than was worth it. Sponsors money, umm no. There’s usually1 maybe 2 females on the planet in any sport making endorsement money. The rest get gear or appearance money. And that does not buy food at Vons or the street markets. One time we did get a pair of diadora’s from a Turkish guy who “liked” one of us. Oh and no health insurance cause pro female teams don’t do that so well. So hope your parents like you and you can stay on their coverage until your 25. There’s nothing better than Scandinavian doctor visits or asking your volunteer Italian goal keeper coach how do you say pink eye in Italian. But it’s great, it really is but it’s not for a kid. Go to fucking college. They feed you there. They have trainers and shelter and you can workout for free. Being a pro is not training part time with no risk. Pro means you have a job. That job means you have to perform or your gone. And gone means your back home is your bedroom with your mom asking you “honey what happened you were doing so good!”And your dad looking at you like your a failure. While going back to your college begging for your old trainer if they can ice your knee for you, and your college coach telling the freshman you “just got back” from being a pro. It’s great that girls now can travel and have social media, can train and talk about pro. But seriously have them go to college.
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This is SO ACCURATE
 
dk_b said:
you don’t think players should be able to earn money from their name and likeness? What about coaches marketing themselves as “Coach X from College Y” while they host a camp?
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I really don't think they should be paid. I think they get a lot of perks already. Once they're paid, they're professionals and corruption grows worse than it already is. I'm all for giving them swag, free meal cards, special access to training facilities, tutoring, class selection, preferential housing, etc.

Isn't that enough? Coaches are paid professionals... not amateur, college athletes.
 
Scott m Shurson said:
I really don't think they should be paid. I think they get a lot of perks already. Once they're paid, they're professionals and corruption grows worse than it already is. I'm all for giving them swag, free meal cards, special access to training facilities, tutoring, class selection, preferential housing, etc.

Isn't that enough? Coaches are paid professionals... not amateur, college athletes.
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To me, it’s not a question about whether it is ”enough” but whether it complies with general concepts of fairness and whether it can be exploited. I think cash payments from the school or boosters akin to salaries or bonuses are more ripe for exploitation while I think a player using her status as a college athlete to market herself (or allow herself to be marketed) puts more of the control on the athlete (I recognize that both the payments can be done above board and “fair” if a pool were equally spread across schools and that the endorsement part can also be exploitive so I am writing in generalities). I have zero issue w/a local batting cage showing players who are playing in college in exchange for off-season discounts (or free use) to the player nor do I have an issue with a player returning to her community and holding 1-on-1 training sessions while marketing her experience as a high level college athlete. That does not deprive anyone but permits players to use their skills in a marketable way, just as college age math tutors, music teachers and artists might do (nobody is prohibiting the student on a music scholarship from earning $ in paid music gigs or by giving private lessons and that same student may get free access - perhaps even unregulated (unlike an athlete) - to rehearsal rooms, sound production equipment, etc.).

Coaches are paid professionals, no question, and would I say they can’t slap their names on a sports camp and generate income that way? I would not. But I can’t see how allowing the student athletes to similarly earn money (albeit a pittance, relative to the coaches) interferes with any core mission of college athletics, spirit of amateurism, etc.
 
msoccerm said:
This simply is not 100% true and times have possibly changed since suzysoccer1 played pro. It sounds like she was just an above average player or her experience would have been better. A lot of players overseas are playing and getting a degree. There are also a lot of girls who played in college got their degree who are making the same amount of money as a pro because they can't find a decent paying job because they couldn't do internships while at university.

To play for ones country is such an honour. I guess the difference is that it is near impossible in the USA - where in other countries its quite achievable.
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My experience was one I would never change. Best time of my life. I’ve been called lots of things and I’m sure average was one of them. I had my turn at playing this game and now I can see my kids have even more of a chance then I did. I want more for them not less. That said there are realities that are being missed in this discussion about what playing pro truely is. ALL pros work or go to school while playing. This has been true and will always be true. You have to go eat. Now what kinda of work depends upon where you fall on the soccer food chain and how much you get from your parents. Firstly identity what PRO is. I’m not talking about teenagers training with first division teams on Thursday’s. For right now no female can turn pro AND play in a game in this country until 18. Also with fifa article 19 rules it’s very hard to play in another country (without passport or citizenship). Train yes maybe, but again most legit foreign clubs require a lot before you get on their field. Parents cost here is high. But if you can do it than great.
So for after college or 18 yrs, First thing you have to get there. And average don’t get you there. Your kid is taking away a seasoned adult women’s job. Your kid needs to be scary ass next level good. Next you have to live there and pay bills, then you have to stay there (hardest part) stay healthy and contribute so you can get to another league when this one is finished. Example Scandinavia to Australia or Italy to America. So that you can piece together enough money to survive. Also getting signed by a club is a nightmare. Not even getting into players rights, who owns them, agents, coaches, transfer fees, etc. Many times the college girls playing after college play for about 3-4 seasons. Stopping around age 26,27. Then do private trainings, start coaching, while beginning their new careers in whatever field they have chosen. Like I said I loved this life, it’s fantastic. But there’s a difference to what you think you know or what you’ve over heard and what it is for the player. And not much has changed.

And also TOBIN HEATH DOES NOT SUCK. We should all pray for “off” games like hers for our kids.
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Living in a border region is an exception to the FIFA rule you just cited so it won’t be a burden for folks living in parts of California and Texas because they have the option of playing in both countries. For the folks that don’t live in the border area language/cultural immersion is a legitimate reason to move to Mexico so long as it’s the primary reason for moving and not soccer.

For a certain player, playing in Mexico while getting a degree is an alternative to D1 soccer. If most D1 soccer players are not on an athletic scholarship, then why would it be a problem to attend college in Texas on a academic scholarship while training and playing with Tigres or Rayados? Why couldn’t a player enroll online at Arizona State University and play for Club America in Mexico City instead of ASU soccer?

I am sure that Tobin Heath doesn’t suck. However, her performance in Lyon during the World Cup did not live up to the hype. I was impressed with Rose Lavelle and Kadi Diani from France.
 
dk_b said:
To me, it’s not a question about whether it is ”enough” but whether it complies with general concepts of fairness and whether it can be exploited. I think cash payments from the school or boosters akin to salaries or bonuses are more ripe for exploitation while I think a player using her status as a college athlete to market herself (or allow herself to be marketed) puts more of the control on the athlete (I recognize that both the payments can be done above board and “fair” if a pool were equally spread across schools and that the endorsement part can also be exploitive so I am writing in generalities). I have zero issue w/a local batting cage showing players who are playing in college in exchange for off-season discounts (or free use) to the player nor do I have an issue with a player returning to her community and holding 1-on-1 training sessions while marketing her experience as a high level college athlete. That does not deprive anyone but permits players to use their skills in a marketable way, just as college age math tutors, music teachers and artists might do (nobody is prohibiting the student on a music scholarship from earning $ in paid music gigs or by giving private lessons and that same student may get free access - perhaps even unregulated (unlike an athlete) - to rehearsal rooms, sound production equipment, etc.).

Coaches are paid professionals, no question, and would I say they can’t slap their names on a sports camp and generate income that way? I would not. But I can’t see how allowing the student athletes to similarly earn money (albeit a pittance, relative to the coaches) interferes with any core mission of college athletics, spirit of amateurism, etc.
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I usually agree with everything you post in this general area but not here. I think it's a slippery slope that cannot be contained once you start talking about monetary opportunity. Too difficult to determine how much, for whom, etc. And who is really earning that money? Is it Trevor Lawrence or an offensive guard that makes money for Clemson? And what percentage? Should Trevor and the backup kicker receive the same amount? Should Trevor earn the same as a woman on the gymnastics team?

That said, I do think, based on how much money athletes earn a program, they should be entitled to some goodies that compensate for not really being able to work a traditional job. Maybe a small stipend but that's it. They're already getting so much.
 
MacDre said:
Living in a border region is an exception to the FIFA rule you just cited so it won’t be a burden for folks living in parts of California and Texas because they have the option of playing in both countries. For the folks that don’t live in the border area language/cultural immersion is a legitimate reason to move to Mexico so long as it’s the primary reason for moving and not soccer.

For a certain player, playing in Mexico while getting a degree is an alternative to D1 soccer. If most D1 soccer players are not on an athletic scholarship, then why would it be a problem to attend college in Texas on a academic scholarship while training and playing with Tigres or Rayados? Why couldn’t a player enroll online at Arizona State University and play for Club America in Mexico City instead of ASU soccer?

I am sure that Tobin Heath doesn’t suck. However, her performance in Lyon during the World Cup did not live up to the hype. I was impressed with Rose Lavelle and Kadi Diani from France.
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Tobin Heath is starting to suck. Same with Rapinoe.
 
MacDre said:
Living in a border region is an exception to the FIFA rule you just cited so it won’t be a burden for folks living in parts of California and Texas because they have the option of playing in both countries. For the folks that don’t live in the border area language/cultural immersion is a legitimate reason to move to Mexico so long as it’s the primary reason for moving and not soccer.

For a certain player, playing in Mexico while getting a degree is an alternative to D1 soccer. If most D1 soccer players are not on an athletic scholarship, then why would it be a problem to attend college in Texas on a academic scholarship while training and playing with Tigres or Rayados? Why couldn’t a player enroll online at Arizona State University and play for Club America in Mexico City instead of ASU soccer?

I am sure that Tobin Heath doesn’t suck. However, her performance in Lyon during the World Cup did not live up to the hype. I was impressed with Rose Lavelle and Kadi Diani from France.
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I think I read that as a minor, to play in Mexico, you would have to be within 30 miles of the US border and the foreign club also has to be within 30 miles of the border. Is that right?
 
Scott m Shurson said:
I usually agree with everything you post in this general area but not here. I think it's a slippery slope that cannot be contained once you start talking about monetary opportunity. Too difficult to determine how much, for whom, etc. And who is really earning that money? Is it Trevor Lawrence or an offensive guard that makes money for Clemson? And what percentage? Should Trevor and the backup kicker receive the same amount? Should Trevor earn the same as a woman on the gymnastics team?

That said, I do think, based on how much money athletes earn a program, they should be entitled to some goodies that compensate for not really being able to work a traditional job. Maybe a small stipend but that's it. They're already getting so much.
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You internet like I do. When you disagree and you don’t call me names and insult my intelligence, how am I supposed to react?

I think you make a lot of good points and I long for a day to discuss topics like this in person, over a beverage, while watching some live sports in front of us.
 
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