Bad News Thread

Scott m Shurson said:
What do you spend money on to stop a naked man running through the streets and waiving a knife because he’s on PCP? How about a man that keeps a knife on his floorboard, and likes to punch cops doing their job, after sexually assaulting a woman?

Who do we “rechannel” funds to? You know, conservatively?
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You're being purposely facetious or just obtuse.
 
whatithink said:
You're being purposely facetious or just obtuse.
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I’m being honest, Mr Dufresne if you please. How do you stop someone from choosing PCP over their meds? How do you force someone to get psychiatric help if they don’t want it? How do you stop a confrontation with police when that individual, long ago, decided violent crime was the path to take?

Seriously. And please don’t give me the typical, bullshit answer of throwing more money at the situation like most liberals do. That never works. All it does is raise taxes. What are your practical ideas for solutions that protect and save lives?
 
Scott m Shurson said:
I’m being honest, Mr Dufresne if you please. How do you stop someone from choosing PCP over their meds? How do you force someone to get psychiatric help if they don’t want it? How do you stop a confrontation with police when that individual, long ago, decided violent crime was the path to take?

Seriously. And please don’t give me the typical, bullshit answer of throwing more money at the situation like most liberals do. That never works. All it does is raise taxes. What are your practical ideas for solutions that protect and save lives?
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We are already throwing more money at the problem. It isn't solving anything. It is raising taxes and/or consuming a larger portion of the taxes raised every year. It isn't working and never will.

I have no issue with my tax dollars being spent on keeping the peace, solving crimes, prosecuting criminals and incarcerating them.

So seriously, do you think the long term solution is to continue to throw more and more money into policing and incarceration?

I don't have a panacea nor is there one. There is a lot of work to be done, in a lot of communities, with their own issues, that could move the needle from more crime to less crime; from having to spend more money on police and prisons, to spending money on education and child care to after school care etc. It will also take a long time.
 
whatithink said:
We are already throwing more money at the problem. It isn't solving anything. It is raising taxes and/or consuming a larger portion of the taxes raised every year. It isn't working and never will.

I have no issue with my tax dollars being spent on keeping the peace, solving crimes, prosecuting criminals and incarcerating them.

So seriously, do you think the long term solution is to continue to throw more and more money into policing and incarceration?

I don't have a panacea nor is there one. There is a lot of work to be done, in a lot of communities, with their own issues, that could move the needle from more crime to less crime; from having to spend more money on police and prisons, to spending money on education and child care to after school care etc. It will also take a long time.
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Yes, I do believe in more money on incarceration, but cemeteries and not prisons. Why? Because I’m tired of people, doing it the right way, being forced to suffer, compromise and otherwise deal with crime. And blaming police, or making excuses that XYZ criminal is a victim because his father wasn’t around, or his 3rd grade teacher didn’t inspire him, is bullshit. We all had choices to make.

So we agree on your 1st two paragraphs but I still don’t see any tangible solutions from you. Or is that just me being obtuse?
 
espola said:
Would the supposed civil war be legal?
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Again it doesn't make sense. A civil war assumes the breakdown of law. In the US Civil War, for example, had the south won they would have said their rebellion was legal (same, BTW, as the American Revolution...was that legal?). The North won, so the South's actions were treason. There is no "legal" in a civil war situation because legality assumes the monopoly of force that the state has. The state has the sole right to exercise violence to punish right and wrong. In a civil war or revolution that monopoly has broken down and been replaced by factional violence.

That's separate and apart from the question of whether something is moral, since morality and legality are separate question.

Wow you are in a Rashomon situation again and you don't even know it.
 
whatithink said:
Its a very conservative premise with an unfortunate name. Basically, assuming budgets are fixed, money should be rechanneled to deal with the root cause of issues, i.e. be proactive, versus the result of issues, i.e. be reactive. If the root cause remedies have positive results, then, over time, government spending and therefore taxes can be reduced. What could be more conservative than that! Society also benefits in every way.

Keep in mind that the US spends more than $100B annually on policing, and close to the same on incarceration.
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With all due respect you're putting a very generous spin on "defund the police". To quote AOC:

“Defunding police means defunding police,” Ms. Ocasio-Cortez said. “It does not mean budget tricks or funny math.”

Now I'm pretty sure you don't want to be defined by AOC, but there are many liberals with significant influence who mean "defund" when they say "defund". I agree with you that throwing money at police doesn't solve the problem, its like throwing money at schools without accountability. But taking money away from the police certainly is counter productive. Some good faith reforms and better accountability and transparency is where we need to start. Bad cops need to be off the street for the benefit of all Americans regardless of race.
 
Kicker4Life said:
OK so you can take your argument up with the CDC as well…Guess you’re just smarter than your experts.

“ Meanwhile, evidence mounts of the social, emotional and academic toll remote learning has taken on children, especially in already vulnerable, low-income communities.”

www.npr.org

CDC Makes The Case For Schools Reopening

Federal researchers say, with proper safety precautions, schools don't seem to fuel outbreaks, with some exceptions such as indoor sports practices.
www.npr.org www.npr.org
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Did we blame the crack problem on social economic pressures? Can we blame opioid addiction on social, economic and academic issues? Adding complications always makes things tougher, this is life.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Did we blame the crack problem on social economic pressures? Can we blame opioid addiction on social, economic and academic issues? Adding complications always makes things tougher, this is life.
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Thanks for further proving for us that you truly don’t know what you don’t know and try to shame everyone into your narrative. What grade are your kids in again? Cause I know you from the old forum too and back then you had olders. So you likely don’t have kids in K-12 so have NO IDEA how this has impacted them.
 
Grace T. said:
Again it doesn't make sense. A civil war assumes the breakdown of law. In the US Civil War, for example, had the south won they would have said their rebellion was legal (same, BTW, as the American Revolution...was that legal?). The North won, so the South's actions were treason. There is no "legal" in a civil war situation because legality assumes the monopoly of force that the state has. The state has the sole right to exercise violence to punish right and wrong. In a civil war or revolution that monopoly has broken down and been replaced by factional violence.

That's separate and apart from the question of whether something is moral, since morality and legality are separate question.

Wow you are in a Rashomon situation again and you don't even know it.
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What would be moral about your supposed civil war?

BTW, the patriots of the Revolutionary War knew that what they were doing was illegal, and that what they were doing risked all.

"we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor." Would you like me to look up the source of that for you?

"We must all hang together or surely we will all hang separately" -- attributed to Benjamin Franklin.

No whining there about how their rights had been trampled by efforts to control a pandemic.
 
espola said:
What would be moral about your supposed civil war?

BTW, the patriots of the Revolutionary War knew that what they were doing was illegal, and that what they were doing risked all.

"we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor." Would you like me to look up the source of that for you?

"We must all hang together or surely we will all hang separately" -- attributed to Benjamin Franklin.

No whining there about how their rights had been trampled by efforts to control a pandemic.
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I'm not seeing much disagreement here between us. The only real difference is that I regard the lockdowns as immoral, while you don't, which I don't think is exactly a "classical conservative" thing unless you mean the classical conservatism of the English monarchical system pre-Glorious Revolution (again, your definition may vary because so far I'm only seeing a crazy pen guy as an attempt to define it, and Nixon which you trotted out before).
 
espola said:
What would be moral about your supposed civil war?

BTW, the patriots of the Revolutionary War knew that what they were doing was illegal, and that what they were doing risked all.

"we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor." Would you like me to look up the source of that for you?

"We must all hang together or surely we will all hang separately" -- attributed to Benjamin Franklin.

No whining there about how their rights had been trampled by efforts to control a pandemic.
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"we must meet the threat with our blood, our valor, indeed with our very lives, to ensure that human civilization, not insect, dominates this galaxy now and always"
 
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