Bad News Thread

Wonderful. Any kind of learning is ok?

For my CRT classes, I will focus on prime factorization, fractions, and long division.

Grades will be issued solely on the basis of written work. To assure an absence of racial bias, exams will be graded without cover sheets, and no partial credit will be given. Because of the possibility of unconscious bias in the school administration, all promotion decisions are algorithmic and not subject to appeal: any students below 65% will repeat the class, regardless of race, gender, or ethnic origin.

Maybe you want to be a smidge clearer than “it’s about learning”. I don’t think most CRT proponents would care for the above class.
For my class it will look like this:

No grades first off. It will be pass or fail. If you dont want to be here, please leave. I will teach through small groups of 5 x 5. 25 students is all I can handle if I have a teachers aid. I will look for leaders to help lead each group to learn each subject. For example, math is so wrong and lonely for so many and it causes some people to feel dumb. Math learned in a group is way better :) Help each other is my motto :)
 
Link?

The descriptions I have seen could apply to anything, including the history classes I took in the 1980s.

Here is one:

”The core idea is that racism is a social construct, and that it is not merely the product of individual bias or prejudice, but also something embedded in legal systems and policies.”

My class in the 1980s talked about slavery and segregation. Therefore it satisfies the above definition.

Now, if CRT proponents are asking for something which didn’t exist 40 years ago in all white suburban public schools, they need to put forward a clearer definition.

Otherwise, Tucker Carlson gets to define it for them. And he is.

He's parroting the line making its way around the leftist twitterverse: CRT is an academic discipline which overlaps a variety of other disciplines such as economics and sociology. That's not what the debate about public schools is about...they are just teaching antiracism and you know, like actual history. The right is just labelling this as a "CRT" boogey man because they don't want antiracism taught in schools. They can't even define what CRT theory is.

It's funny to see you and your friends on opposite sides BTW.
 
Traditionally, the proponents of an idea have the burden of putting forward a clear definition.

So far, CRT proponents have declined to do so. If you keep it fuzzy, it’s harder to criticize,

On the other hand, if you can’t clearly define your curriculum, then you have no business teaching it.
This appears to support what you state. I am assuming this group (edweek.org) favors it. From the post.

"School boards, superintendents, even principals and teachers are already facing questions about critical race theory, and there are significant disagreements even among experts about its precise definition as well as how its tenets should inform K-12 policy and practice."

 
He's parroting the line making its way around the leftist twitterverse: CRT is an academic discipline which overlaps a variety of other disciplines such as economics and sociology. That's not what the debate about public schools is about...they are just teaching antiracism and you know, like actual history. The right is just labelling this as a "CRT" boogey man because they don't want antiracism taught in schools. They can't even define what CRT theory is.

It's funny to see you and your friends on opposite sides BTW.
Glad it keeps you amused.

Even ‘anti-racism” is a problem as a term. Do you mean teaching kids not to discriminate or have bias? Or do you mean teaching them Ibrahm Kendi’s specific philosophy? They are not the same.

They don’t even agree on the definition of the word “racism”. The traditional defintion requires malice. Kendi‘s definition requires power, but not malice. The shift in terms makes a real difference in a classroom discussion, and not for the better.

I’d be more impressed with the “just teaching history” claim if they taught more of it. Most people end up thinking that slavery was primarily an American institution, and lasted about 250 years. Nowhere close to true. But that’s the impression you get if you think that slavery started in 1619 in Virginia and ended in 1865 in Texas.
 
Link?

The descriptions I have seen could apply to anything, including the history classes I took in the 1980s.

Here is one:

”The core idea is that racism is a social construct, and that it is not merely the product of individual bias or prejudice, but also something embedded in legal systems and policies.”

My class in the 1980s talked about slavery and segregation. Therefore it satisfies the above definition.

Now, if CRT proponents are asking for something which didn’t exist 40 years ago in all white suburban public schools, they need to put forward a clearer definition.

Otherwise, Tucker Carlson gets to define it for them. And he is.
The problem espola and husker have is a derivative of the following.

-Pretty much every article I have read in defense of CRT does so in generalities. They never discuss the core underlying belief system that is the foundation of CRT. I suspect most of the writers are just passing along what they heard and have not bothered to actually look. The few that do, know that if they wrote what the core belief system is, people would immediately turn away from it. So instead they talk about generalities.

Lets take a look at some of the foundational thought of CRT.

"Firstly, racism is ordinary: the overall ethos of majority culture promotes and promulgates a notion of “color-blindness” and “meritocracy.” These two notions are mutually intertwined and serve to marginalize certain enclaves of people—predominately people of color. Color-blindness and meritocratic rhetoric serve two primary functions: Critical Race Theory 7 first, they allow whites to feel consciously irresponsible for the hardships people of color face and encounter daily and, secondly, they also maintain whites’ power and strongholds within society."

So here the first tenant holds that the concept of being color blind (not judging people by their color) and you can get ahead by hard work (meritocracy) are in fact not good things, but in fact racist in nature.

So they are telling you essentially yes you cannot be color blind and meritocracy is a bad thing.

That is a rather divisive concept and one that tells people hard work isn't the way to get a head.

Go ahead and defend that espola and husker....feel free

"Secondly, Bell’s (1980) theory of interest convergence is a critical component within the cogs of CRT. Common sense beliefs are formulated by the majority “status quo.” The beliefs created by the majority—the haves—oppress minority groups—the have-nots and have-too-littles. Stated more precisely, interest convergence is the notion that whites will allow and support racial justice/progress to the extent that there is something positive in it for them, or a “convergence” between the interests of whites and non-whites. CRT focuses on informing the public how certain stories act and serve to silence and distort certain enclaves of people and cultures (typically people of color)"

So here the theory states that it is whitey even today that is holding down people of color.

Kids are being taught that whites are racist today and our norms are not simply cultural norms, but things imposed by the white culture to hold down people of color.

Again this is terribly divisive. And if one looks at the arc of US history you see that this flies in the fact that today minorities are increasingly are sports/media icons, run biz, have been in top political positions, etc.

This type of thinking creates an us vs the whites type of attitude. CRT is not in fact trying to help the races get along, in fact to the contrary they are singling out a race (white) as the root of much of the evil they think is in the country. And they want to teach this to the kids? And the argument is it is a way to bring about harmony and understanding?

Espola and Husker...what part of point 2 are you the biggest fan of?

"Fourthly, the idea of storytelling comes from its powerful, persuasive, and explanatory ability to unlearn beliefs that are commonly believed to be true. CRT calls this concept “storytelling” and “counter-storytelling.” This dichotomy—storytelling and counter-storytelling—is predicated upon the belief that schools are neutral spaces that treat everyone justly; however, close examination refutes this: simply evaluating graduation rates accomplishes this. School curricula continue to be structured around mainstream white, middle-class values. There continues to be a widening of the racial achievement gap (the separation of students of color’s achievement and the achievement of Anglo-Americans). Whose needs do these values and curricula serve? It is not students of color? Hackman and Rauscher (2004) draw attention to the fact that under the guise of mainstream curriculum certain enclaves of students become marginalized through curriculum and praxis that are insensitive and inequitable."

Here they tenant is that learning as we know it is somehow white in nature. And that somehow what we teach is unattainable or beyond what people of color can possibly learn. As if learning a language (English) or learning math, or learning history is somehow easier for whites because of the color of their skin and hard for people of color.

So the solution is to what? Dumb down the curriculum? Get rid of AP classes etc. This is what they advocate.

Defend that espola and husker?

"Fifthly, whites have actually been recipients of civil rights legislation."

That in an interesting concept no?

"The irony is that, although whites have undeniably been the recipients of civil rights legislation, it has also been verified that affirmative action, too, best serves whites (e.g., Delgado & Stefancic, 2001; Delgado, 2009). Delgado (2009) exhorts and explicitly requests that “[…] we should demystify, interrogate, and destabilize affirmative action. The program was designed by others to promote their purposes, not ours”

Go read other defenders of CRT who talk about the actual tenants.

If you can get through those and come out thinking yeah...this is what we should teach kids...Mao and the Cultural Revolution applaud you.
 
The problem espola and husker have is a derivative of the following.

-Pretty much every article I have read in defense of CRT does so in generalities. They never discuss the core underlying belief system that is the foundation of CRT. I suspect most of the writers are just passing along what they heard and have not bothered to actually look. The few that do, know that if they wrote what the core belief system is, people would immediately turn away from it. So instead they talk about generalities.

Lets take a look at some of the foundational thought of CRT.

"Firstly, racism is ordinary: the overall ethos of majority culture promotes and promulgates a notion of “color-blindness” and “meritocracy.” These two notions are mutually intertwined and serve to marginalize certain enclaves of people—predominately people of color. Color-blindness and meritocratic rhetoric serve two primary functions: Critical Race Theory 7 first, they allow whites to feel consciously irresponsible for the hardships people of color face and encounter daily and, secondly, they also maintain whites’ power and strongholds within society."

So here the first tenant holds that the concept of being color blind (not judging people by their color) and you can get ahead by hard work (meritocracy) are in fact not good things, but in fact racist in nature.

So they are telling you essentially yes you cannot be color blind and meritocracy is a bad thing.

That is a rather divisive concept and one that tells people hard work isn't the way to get a head.

Go ahead and defend that espola and husker....feel free

"Secondly, Bell’s (1980) theory of interest convergence is a critical component within the cogs of CRT. Common sense beliefs are formulated by the majority “status quo.” The beliefs created by the majority—the haves—oppress minority groups—the have-nots and have-too-littles. Stated more precisely, interest convergence is the notion that whites will allow and support racial justice/progress to the extent that there is something positive in it for them, or a “convergence” between the interests of whites and non-whites. CRT focuses on informing the public how certain stories act and serve to silence and distort certain enclaves of people and cultures (typically people of color)"

So here the theory states that it is whitey even today that is holding down people of color.

Kids are being taught that whites are racist today and our norms are not simply cultural norms, but things imposed by the white culture to hold down people of color.

Again this is terribly divisive. And if one looks at the arc of US history you see that this flies in the fact that today minorities are increasingly are sports/media icons, run biz, have been in top political positions, etc.

This type of thinking creates an us vs the whites type of attitude. CRT is not in fact trying to help the races get along, in fact to the contrary they are singling out a race (white) as the root of much of the evil they think is in the country. And they want to teach this to the kids? And the argument is it is a way to bring about harmony and understanding?

Espola and Husker...what part of point 2 are you the biggest fan of?

"Fourthly, the idea of storytelling comes from its powerful, persuasive, and explanatory ability to unlearn beliefs that are commonly believed to be true. CRT calls this concept “storytelling” and “counter-storytelling.” This dichotomy—storytelling and counter-storytelling—is predicated upon the belief that schools are neutral spaces that treat everyone justly; however, close examination refutes this: simply evaluating graduation rates accomplishes this. School curricula continue to be structured around mainstream white, middle-class values. There continues to be a widening of the racial achievement gap (the separation of students of color’s achievement and the achievement of Anglo-Americans). Whose needs do these values and curricula serve? It is not students of color? Hackman and Rauscher (2004) draw attention to the fact that under the guise of mainstream curriculum certain enclaves of students become marginalized through curriculum and praxis that are insensitive and inequitable."

Here they tenant is that learning as we know it is somehow white in nature. And that somehow what we teach is unattainable or beyond what people of color can possibly learn. As if learning a language (English) or learning math, or learning history is somehow easier for whites because of the color of their skin and hard for people of color.

So the solution is to what? Dumb down the curriculum? Get rid of AP classes etc. This is what they advocate.

Defend that espola and husker?

"Fifthly, whites have actually been recipients of civil rights legislation."

That in an interesting concept no?

"The irony is that, although whites have undeniably been the recipients of civil rights legislation, it has also been verified that affirmative action, too, best serves whites (e.g., Delgado & Stefancic, 2001; Delgado, 2009). Delgado (2009) exhorts and explicitly requests that “[…] we should demystify, interrogate, and destabilize affirmative action. The program was designed by others to promote their purposes, not ours”

Go read other defenders of CRT who talk about the actual tenants.

If you can get through those and come out thinking yeah...this is what we should teach kids...Mao and the Cultural Revolution applaud you.
By the way the above explanation of the tenants are not coming from someone against CRT. They are written by a proponent of the belief system.

And if one bothers to read other supporters of the system who talk about the actual beliefs, this is what you are going to get.

We should absolutely fight against this incredibly divisive and harmful ideology being taught to millions of kids.
 
We should absolutely fight against this incredibly divisive and harmful ideology being taught to millions of kids.
What makes it so insidious is that it is presented as merely looking at racism and trying to understand. On its face that is at worst a neutral sounding statement and at best something positive. So most people who don't bother actually researching it think...yeah that sounds good...why would you be against that. And that is how problems start. And that is why now as it is spreading and people are getting an up close look at it, they are starting to recoil against it.
 
Why would you say I like it? What part of the details of CRT have I expressed like for?
Clearly based on your comments you like it. You think criticism of it is simply right wing.

You have yet to express which parts of it endears it to you.

I have in an above post laid out some of the tenants of the theory written by a proponent of it. Which parts do you find charming and worthwhile?
 
Here is some more of that good ole can we all just get along stuff.

Nah...just kidding. Blaming whites and creating division is now on the up and up.

And before you say...some poster off Twitter? No the Smithsonian had this up and only took it down after much deserved criticism. Despite their temporary setback...they will continue on with this madness.

white culture 01.jpeg
 
Here is some more of that good ole can we all just get along stuff.

Nah...just kidding. Blaming whites and creating division is now on the up and up.

And before you say...some poster off Twitter? No the Smithsonian had this up and only took it down after much deserved criticism. Despite their temporary setback...they will continue on with this madness.

View attachment 11049
Stereotype much?

The worst thing about this poster is it implies other races are the opposite of this?
 
Stereotype much?

The worst thing about this poster is it implies other races are the opposite of this?
Stereotype much? That was at the Smithsonian. I didn't randomly pull it off some website.

I don't think that be at the Smithsonian? Do you? Fortunately they pulled it down. I agree it is a terrible poster. Shocked they had it up. The fact they has it up shows how insidious this theory is in my opinion
 
Link?

The descriptions I have seen could apply to anything, including the history classes I took in the 1980s.

Here is one:

”The core idea is that racism is a social construct, and that it is not merely the product of individual bias or prejudice, but also something embedded in legal systems and policies.”

My class in the 1980s talked about slavery and segregation. Therefore it satisfies the above definition.

Now, if CRT proponents are asking for something which didn’t exist 40 years ago in all white suburban public schools, they need to put forward a clearer definition.

Otherwise, Tucker Carlson gets to define it for them. And he is.

What makes you think that CRT proponents are asking for something which didn’t exist 40 years ago in all white suburban public schools?
 
The problem espola and husker have is a derivative of the following.

-Pretty much every article I have read in defense of CRT does so in generalities. They never discuss the core underlying belief system that is the foundation of CRT. I suspect most of the writers are just passing along what they heard and have not bothered to actually look. The few that do, know that if they wrote what the core belief system is, people would immediately turn away from it. So instead they talk about generalities.

Lets take a look at some of the foundational thought of CRT.

"Firstly, racism is ordinary: the overall ethos of majority culture promotes and promulgates a notion of “color-blindness” and “meritocracy.” These two notions are mutually intertwined and serve to marginalize certain enclaves of people—predominately people of color. Color-blindness and meritocratic rhetoric serve two primary functions: Critical Race Theory 7 first, they allow whites to feel consciously irresponsible for the hardships people of color face and encounter daily and, secondly, they also maintain whites’ power and strongholds within society."

So here the first tenant holds that the concept of being color blind (not judging people by their color) and you can get ahead by hard work (meritocracy) are in fact not good things, but in fact racist in nature.

So they are telling you essentially yes you cannot be color blind and meritocracy is a bad thing.

That is a rather divisive concept and one that tells people hard work isn't the way to get a head.

Go ahead and defend that espola and husker....feel free

"Secondly, Bell’s (1980) theory of interest convergence is a critical component within the cogs of CRT. Common sense beliefs are formulated by the majority “status quo.” The beliefs created by the majority—the haves—oppress minority groups—the have-nots and have-too-littles. Stated more precisely, interest convergence is the notion that whites will allow and support racial justice/progress to the extent that there is something positive in it for them, or a “convergence” between the interests of whites and non-whites. CRT focuses on informing the public how certain stories act and serve to silence and distort certain enclaves of people and cultures (typically people of color)"

So here the theory states that it is whitey even today that is holding down people of color.

Kids are being taught that whites are racist today and our norms are not simply cultural norms, but things imposed by the white culture to hold down people of color.

Again this is terribly divisive. And if one looks at the arc of US history you see that this flies in the fact that today minorities are increasingly are sports/media icons, run biz, have been in top political positions, etc.

This type of thinking creates an us vs the whites type of attitude. CRT is not in fact trying to help the races get along, in fact to the contrary they are singling out a race (white) as the root of much of the evil they think is in the country. And they want to teach this to the kids? And the argument is it is a way to bring about harmony and understanding?

Espola and Husker...what part of point 2 are you the biggest fan of?

"Fourthly, the idea of storytelling comes from its powerful, persuasive, and explanatory ability to unlearn beliefs that are commonly believed to be true. CRT calls this concept “storytelling” and “counter-storytelling.” This dichotomy—storytelling and counter-storytelling—is predicated upon the belief that schools are neutral spaces that treat everyone justly; however, close examination refutes this: simply evaluating graduation rates accomplishes this. School curricula continue to be structured around mainstream white, middle-class values. There continues to be a widening of the racial achievement gap (the separation of students of color’s achievement and the achievement of Anglo-Americans). Whose needs do these values and curricula serve? It is not students of color? Hackman and Rauscher (2004) draw attention to the fact that under the guise of mainstream curriculum certain enclaves of students become marginalized through curriculum and praxis that are insensitive and inequitable."

Here they tenant is that learning as we know it is somehow white in nature. And that somehow what we teach is unattainable or beyond what people of color can possibly learn. As if learning a language (English) or learning math, or learning history is somehow easier for whites because of the color of their skin and hard for people of color.

So the solution is to what? Dumb down the curriculum? Get rid of AP classes etc. This is what they advocate.

Defend that espola and husker?

"Fifthly, whites have actually been recipients of civil rights legislation."

That in an interesting concept no?

"The irony is that, although whites have undeniably been the recipients of civil rights legislation, it has also been verified that affirmative action, too, best serves whites (e.g., Delgado & Stefancic, 2001; Delgado, 2009). Delgado (2009) exhorts and explicitly requests that “[…] we should demystify, interrogate, and destabilize affirmative action. The program was designed by others to promote their purposes, not ours”

Go read other defenders of CRT who talk about the actual tenants.

If you can get through those and come out thinking yeah...this is what we should teach kids...Mao and the Cultural Revolution applaud you.

A few points --

You didn't identify the source of your quotes.

You are asking me to defend your obvious misinterpretation of the theories you quote. Why would you think I would do that? Are you just being argumentative to cover up your ignorance?

Who are the "actual tenants"?
 
Stereotype much? That was at the Smithsonian. I didn't randomly pull it off some website.

I don't think that be at the Smithsonian? Do you? Fortunately they pulled it down. I agree it is a terrible poster. Shocked they had it up
Sorry Hound, comment not directed at you, but at the creator of the poster. :) The poster is wholly inappropriate, its not favorable to either blacks or whites. It just shows you the power of a group think narrative that the Smithsonian would even consider putting it up. An example of the dangers of pure political correctness. I don't see how separating us into monolithic groups does anything to help combat racism.
 
Clearly based on your comments you like it. You think criticism of it is simply right wing.

You have yet to express which parts of it endears it to you.

I have in an above post laid out some of the tenants of the theory written by a proponent of it. Which parts do you find charming and worthwhile?

Who are these tenants again? Maybe I should talk to them.
 
Here is some more of that good ole can we all just get along stuff.

Nah...just kidding. Blaming whites and creating division is now on the up and up.

And before you say...some poster off Twitter? No the Smithsonian had this up and only took it down after much deserved criticism. Despite their temporary setback...they will continue on with this madness.

View attachment 11049
Is this going to be placed in a 3rd grade syllabus in Louden County, VA?
 
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