Bad News Thread

[dad4]

Well in your defense you are getting picked on (myself included), but in our defense you keep stepping in it...IMO.

You mean I keep disagreeing with you.

That’s fine. A quality disagreement is helpful. Grace’s comments on masks and in-home transmission increased my understanding of how to think about the value of mask usage.

Most of this thread has devolved into a very low quality disgreement. I say that I feel it is irresponsible to put a 2 year old on a plane during a respiratory pandemic. Grace assumes that, therefore, I must give dirty looks to nursing mothers.

No basis in fact. No attempt to understand and learn the opposing point of view. Just a random insult with a tenuous link to my comment.

Oh well. Serves me right for expecting civility online. Hope your day is good.

 

[watfly]

Hope your day is good.

You as well. It's been good days and getting better. I feel lucky that our family will come out of Covid relatively unscathed (despite my complaining). I do feel sad for others and I'm still concerned about the long term impact to our community for the loss of real education and small business for a year. Their are some silver linings but they don't outweigh the negative impacts of Covid and the lockdowns.

 

[Grace T.]

You mean I keep disagreeing with you.

That’s fine. A quality disagreement is helpful. Grace’s comments on masks and in-home transmission increased my understanding of how to think about the value of mask usage.

Most of this thread has devolved into a very low quality disgreement. I say that I feel it is irresponsible to put a 2 year old on a plane during a respiratory pandemic. Grace assumes that, therefore, I must give dirty looks to nursing mothers.

No basis in fact. No attempt to understand and learn the opposing point of view. Just a random insult with a tenuous link to my comment.

Oh well. Serves me right for expecting civility online. Hope your day is good.

You specifically said 2 year olds should not be put on planes. You singled them out, saying there was no reason for them to be.

You could have said no one should be flying except for certain reasons such as unavoidable business emergencies, health emergencies or funerals or the like, but you didn't. But you didn't...you singled out the family for flying with a 2 year old.

What's worse is you made a judgement on a family for carving out their own exception, when you did the same with your tournament.

I said that was like people who don't like babies crying on planes or seeing nursing mothers (because they don't think it's "appropriate" and make judgements on the parents, which is what you did). If you didn't carry that sentiment: a) you should have phrased it some other way, and b) you were given plenty of opportunity to rebut what you meant but the best you came up with was when kicking gave you a door out you were only half-joking.

By way of personal attacks, it's also pretty weak (as weak as calling you authoritarian). The logical response is to say "no I'd never call out a family for flying with a baby or 2 year old except during a pandemic" (which I suspect you didn't do because it would leave you open to a criticism well what about for example a family that's moving, or a 2 year old going to a funeral and you didn't want to rebut each "what if" since it would leave you increasingly on an ever smaller iceberg) or "no I'd never call out a nursing mother" but I suspect the reason you take such criticism so harshly is because it hits a little too close to home. You are free to correct the record, and I'm sure all of us would give more than willingly give you the benefit of the doubt. We all misspeak and it would be uncharitable not to take you at your word.

 

[Desert Hound]

I say that I feel it is irresponsible to put a 2 year old on a plane during a respiratory pandemic. Grace assumes that, therefore, I must give dirty looks to nursing mothers.

This is where AGAIN you divert from data.

There is nothing irresponsible about putting a 2 yr old on the plane.

The data shows that kids have pretty much zero risk. Further the data shows they are not spreaders.

So while you may FEEL it is irresponsible, the actual real world data says there is absolutely no issue with having them on planes.

 

[Glitterhater]

Understand your point, but based on the accounts the flight attendant did not give the family the option to comply instead just told them to deplane our she would call the cops. The other passengers were supportive of the family. A Spirit Airlines supervisor subsequently, and correctly so, allowed them back on the plane. We're it not for the flight attendant's hysteria and gross overreaction none of this would have ever happened. In my mind it was a "silly thing" for the flight attendant to make an example out of and lighten up, not the family. And yes, I agree I would be pissed if my flight had been delayed regardless of who is at fault.

I always try and put myself in the employees shoes- kind of like the teen girl working at the yogurt shop that I saw get berated by a religious zealot who said that "Christians don't wear masks and her parents must be so disappointed in her, etc," when she ever-so-politely asked if the family would please put their masks on inside. Some of these workers could face retaliation from their employer for not holding people to the rules. Nobody wants to get fired either. Shitty situation all around.

 

[Grace T.]

Example of the irrational mask fear we were talking about earlier. Girl who is young, but apparently has an "extremely compromised immune system" loses it in an elevator when a delivery person wears a mask improperly (as people are prone to do) and refuses to move away from the door so she can pass. If you are that fearful, why are you taking the elevator at all (instead of walking however many stairs)? And then rather than just hold your breathe, hit the button for the next floor and walk out of the elevator you proceed to have a yelling match inside said small confined space? Nothing rational about this.....all fear.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=girl+loses+it+in+the+elevator

 

[espola]

Example of the irrational mask fear we were talking about earlier. Girl who is young, but apparently has an "extremely compromised immune system" loses it in an elevator when a delivery person wears a mask improperly (as people are prone to do) and refuses to move away from the door so she can pass. If you are that fearful, why are you taking the elevator at all (instead of walking however many stairs)? And then rather than just hold your breathe, hit the button for the next floor and walk out of the elevator you proceed to have a yelling match inside said small confined space? Nothing rational about this.....all fear.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=girl+loses+it+in+the+elevator

People are prone to do? That's not my experience.

 

[Glitterhater]

Example of the irrational mask fear we were talking about earlier. Girl who is young, but apparently has an "extremely compromised immune system" loses it in an elevator when a delivery person wears a mask improperly (as people are prone to do) and refuses to move away from the door so she can pass. If you are that fearful, why are you taking the elevator at all (instead of walking however many stairs)? And then rather than just hold your breathe, hit the button for the next floor and walk out of the elevator you proceed to have a yelling match inside said small confined space? Nothing rational about this.....all fear.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=girl+loses+it+in+the+elevator

Wow. That is equal parts sad and irrational. Sad because that poor girl is clearly suffering from something and well, don't need to explain the irrational part!

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Screaming 2 year olds should not be put on planes.

No wonder we can't get this under control. We assume that the nation's 2 year olds have pressing business 1000 miles away, and are discussing what they should wear on the plane.

The 2 year old should be outside, eating sand, at the playground. No plane required.

Is that what this is all about? Your parents never took you anywhere when you were two?

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Nice personal attack.

There is point in discussing this further until we both agree to accept the basic science on covid:

Masks and vaccines reduce spread, bars and restaurants increase spread.

Until then, you're just one more internet loon who thinks he's smarter than the CDC.

Aren't you ignoring the Science that says we have an immune system?

 

[dad4]

Is that what this is all about? Your parents never took you anywhere when you were two?

Not really about age.

I don't believe people of any age should take recreational airplane trips during a respiratory pandemic.

If you've taken more than 4 or 5 plane trips, chances are you caught a cold or flu on one of them.

This is because airplanes are great at spreading airborne disease: lots of people, enclosed space, prolonged exposure, limited ventilation.

If we actually want to be rid of this thing, we should avoid the places which spread it. Like planes.

That's all.

 

[Desert Hound]

Not really about age.

I don't believe people of any age should take recreational airplane trips during a respiratory pandemic.

If you've taken more than 4 or 5 plane trips, chances are you caught a cold or flu on one of them.

This is because airplanes are great at spreading airborne disease: lots of people, enclosed space, prolonged exposure, limited ventilation.

If we actually want to be rid of this thing, we should avoid the places which spread it. Like planes.

That's all.

And again you were against the idea of a kid traveling. They have zero risk and are known not to be spreading covid.

And so you ignore data again. Your fear means your solutions are not based on data.

Go look at cdc data for under 17 and tell me why that kid should not be traveling. You cannot.

And that is why I am always on your ass. Your solutions don't hold up to real world data.

The fact that you think there is no reason to have a 2 yr old travel and that it is unacceptable means you don't actually look at data.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

"Look, there's so much of this virus that we think we understand, that we think we can predict, that's just a little bit beyond our explanation."—government expert

 

[Bruddah IZ]

There are good estimates for how much masks reduce transmission.

Masks reduce transmission by 70-79% for transmission between households, and 0% for transmission within a household. Works out to a 45-54% reduction overall.

At what cost? About $40 for a 20 pack of K94. Or $10 for a decent cloth one.

Seems clear enough.

Source?

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Not really about age.

I don't believe people of any age should take recreational airplane trips during a respiratory pandemic.

If you've taken more than 4 or 5 plane trips, chances are you caught a cold or flu on one of them.

This is because airplanes are great at spreading airborne disease: lots of people, enclosed space, prolonged exposure, limited ventilation.

If we actually want to be rid of this thing, we should avoid the places which spread it. Like planes.

That's all.

When was the last time planes and respiratory virus's caused the U.S. to shut down the economy? When was the last time we used PCR test to lock down our economy? When was the last time you studied the human immune system?

 

[Bruddah IZ]

We've all seen it. Some of you may even have had to do it.

The "deep clean" of workplaces (and even homes) supposedly to fight the virus.

Obsessive sanitizing of surfaces goes on all over the place. It's everywhere we look.

For many months, even people who disagree with us on lockdowns insisted that people were overcleaning in response to the virus, and that there was no point in doing this. The virus essentially doesn't spread from surfaces.

Well, now even the CDC, which so far has urged every ludicrous bit of pandemic theater, says: you can stop all the obsessive deep cleaning now.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

 

[Bruddah IZ]

You mean I keep disagreeing with you.

That’s fine. A quality disagreement is helpful. Grace’s comments on masks and in-home transmission increased my understanding of how to think about the value of mask usage.

Most of this thread has devolved into a very low quality disgreement. I say that I feel it is irresponsible to put a 2 year old on a plane during a respiratory pandemic. Grace assumes that, therefore, I must give dirty looks to nursing mothers.

No basis in fact. No attempt to understand and learn the opposing point of view. Just a random insult with a tenuous link to my comment.

Oh well. Serves me right for expecting civility online. Hope your day is good.

I actually agree with you here. Use of mask have no basis in fact.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

That's not even close to being true but you like to paint a picture with an aisle down the middle. It's likely that many more people wear the mask but find it rather silly. Rather than cause a scene , they remain civil and respectful of others, they wear a mask. The extremists farthest from the aisle are always the loudest (and usually the smallest groups)

Most people I know wear a mask because it's the decent thing to do (right now) . There is enough "science" on both sides of the aisle to drive anyone crazy - and that's what's happened.

You seem to have decided to change my meaning to suit your agenda.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

That's not even close to being true but you like to paint a picture with an aisle down the middle. It's likely that many more people wear the mask but find it rather silly. Rather than cause a scene , they remain civil and respectful of others, they wear a mask. The extremists farthest from the aisle are always the loudest (and usually the smallest groups)

Most people I know wear a mask because it's the decent thing to do (right now) . There is enough "science" on both sides of the aisle to drive anyone crazy - and that's what's happened.

I see your problem. You think there are “alternative facts”.