5 biological men roster wins Australian women's soccer league title & also undefeated this season

watfly said:
AKA "free speech near absolutist".
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Oh come on I was raked over the coals here for opposing hate speech limitations on nazis. My free speech credentials here are impecable

It’s not my fault you all can’t tell the difference between a hypothetical and actual position. I’m just pointing out where dad4s solution leads to which is authoritarianism or f the trans kid. That on YOU not me

Here’s the other thing I’m scratching my head about. My position is actually quite moderate and is being advanced by a woman and former athlete which you all purportedly intend to protect. But y’all goes all offended and stark raving mad. Why is that you suppose? It’s maybe because y’all’s position is easily to pick apart and hard to defend and it infuriates y’all that you can’t have it simple. I love my little soapbox…it’s pink and decorated with little unicorns.

Finally I am very comfortable being in the middle and generally attack from various directions, and on both sides, particularly if the arguments are relatively easy to trip up. I’ll remind you all of my track record: 2008, trump, Covid shutdowns, the 2020 crash, the Covid ifr, masks, the vax, Biden, j6, the great inflation.
 
Grace T. said:
But let me crack out the translator one more time. Help me translator with the entire words in the mouth thing:
“We don’t appreciate the lawyer when she uses our own words against us.
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Say no more. We now know you love to hear yourself talk/argue. We know we won't win any argument against you. Not that I'm trying to win. This isn't about winning. It's about keeping biological females safe in their sports. We are bigots for not wanting to allow MTF athletes who couldn't cut it in their chosen sport so they called themselves females and are now smashing records AND faces. You on the other hand are perfectly fine with it.
 
pewpew said:
You do quite a bit of that. Along with a lot of assuming.
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In this case I just laid out the lines. Dad4 drew the connection himself. I can’t help it if someone paints themselves into a corner between “I don’t care” (thus suggesting to themselves they are bigots) and having to draw the authoritarian hammer. In dad4s case I don’t think he’s a bigot just that he’s painted himself into a corner and didn’t think things through.

My best friend is a former d1 vball player. She and I have spoken about this several times and she disagrees vehemently about the issue of mtf in womens. sports. I laid out the facts to her: that it is more likely than not that this is a neurological condition not some life style choice, that keeping them amongst the men would lead to some bullying problems, that keeping them amongst the men is not a level playing field because once on t blockers surgery or estrogen they can’t remain competitive with the men, that requiring them to pass or to change early to play sports would just encourage more of them to do it early, and that there are ftm that have the opposite problem. Her response was something along the way of “gosh I didn’t look at things that way before. I still disagree mtf should be allowed to play with biological women but I agree we need to problem solve this. I don’t know if the answer is separate leagues or stricter protocols but i agree they are entitled to consideration too”. That gentlemen is a class act and a way to look at this minus any slobi style bigotry while still maintaining your position. There are no easy answers here other than “I don’t care about the trans. They are mentally ill and did this to themselves. F em”. That position is not only factually inaccurate but bigotry if you don’t check your priors. Again i point out it’s just the mens here, not your wives and daughters, getting all hot and bothered and somehow I doubt they’d be proud of the way some of you have handled yourselves.
 
pewpew said:
Say no more. We now know you love to hear yourself talk/argue. We know we won't win any argument against you. Not that I'm trying to win. This isn't about winning. It's about keeping biological females safe in their sports. We are bigots for not wanting to allow MTF athletes who couldn't cut it in their chosen sport so they called themselves females and are now smashing records AND faces. You on the other hand are perfectly fine with it.
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1. I didn’t say I was perfectly fine with it. My position is much more nuanced. I would not for example allow post puberty mtf to compete in the highest levels in the womens division in at least certain sports such as running, swimming and the martial arts provided there are alternatives (even if they aren’t happy with the alternatives)
2. Again it’s not the women complaining here. It’s all the men’s getting hot and bothered.
3. The only one I’ve accused of bigotry here is slobi. I appreciate dad 4 saying slobi went too far and I think he’s just painted himself into a corner and is too proud to admit it. I hope he’ll reflect on the issue and realize that even if he still thinks he’s right that it’s more nuanced than that. I appreciate watfly and find it interesting that he’s to my left on drag shows (I’d be genuinely curious to know why that is). As to you I’ve reserved rights since you decline continously to answer my question: would you tell my cousin, who is 20 years post surgery and is only interested in using the restroom, not doing anything illegal, that she has to get out of the ladies room or you’d force her out? If the answer is “no I wouldn’t do that” then I’d just scratch up your positions to ignorance without malice. If you would, well you are a bigot and you did that to yourself.
 
Grace T. said:
You yourself admitted that it happens however rarely, but in the most progressive and tolerant area likely in the country. Or as I would put it, the most progressive and tolerant area in the country and it STILL happens…what of the Los Angeles barrios, Orange County, Bakersfield or the counties of Jefferson and that’s before we even leave the state.
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I grew up within a couple of hours from Bakersfield. That's where the Mexican players called me "pinche blanco."

I don't think you know as much as YOU think you do.
 
Grace T. said:
Oh crush the only one I’ve accused of bigotry, and with a firm foundation since on page 1 he used a slur and then continued to use is, is slobi. I’ve said you can argue this topic without being a bigot, that I appreciate watfly and dad4 saying when slobi went too far, have not said anything against you (with reason), and have reserved judgment on pew because I’m not really sure what’s going on there. It’s not a word to be thrown around lightly.

But let me crack out the translator one more time. Help me translator with the entire words in the mouth thing:
“We don’t appreciate the lawyer when she uses our own words against us. We don’t like having to clarify our statements or being questioned on exactly what they mean. It’s not fair. “
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Will you wake me up when your crush (no pun intended) on me is over?
 
Grace T. said:
Here’s why that standard. Because otherwise it’s discriminatory. Again you wouldn’t tell the African American guy he has to find a job in a company that will accept him, go to a neighborhood that won’t harass him, or go to a school that will take his kid. “Why do my property values have to suffer”. Discrimination law doesn’t put it on him to find some place acceptable. It says all places must accept.

Hammers still here. I’ve even carved your name on it. Come on. You know you want to. Think about it. It’s calling out to you. You’ll have such a good time. Australia part deux. Come on…it will be good!
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Refusing to allow a MTF soccer player join and compete against females is not discriminatory.

Having all black colleges is discriminatory. Oh wait!
 
Grace T. said:
Btw that’s why allowing them to play on the girls team or providing them a separate space to play in does provide some leverage against the discrimination charge. “Your honor…we gave them what they wanted but it’s not our fault this dad slobi doesn’t like them”. “Your honor we gave them a separate safe place to play in but it’s not our fault they don’t want it.” But “we forced them [ftm] to play with the boys and then did nothing when they were picked on and discriminated against” doesn’t work. The trade off is having to order slobi to not say certain things, to use his pronouns, and to take away certain parenting decisions away from him in order to reeducate his kids if needed. But “f the trans kid and have them find a place to play in…I’m sure they exist somewhere” doesn’t work for the trans kid any more than it does for the African American guy, or the Jewish guy, or the gay guy.
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Instead of chasing ambulances and taking years off our lives with your dishonest posts, and by the way it's now AT LEAST 4 of us that have pointed out you misquote), maybe you should go after every ECNL that doesn't have a team within a 10 mile radius of every soccer player there is. Isn't that discriminatory? How else can Venus with a penis play in college, Grace? It's OUTLANDISH!!!
 
Slobodan said:
I grew up within a couple of hours from Bakersfield. That's where the Mexican players called me "pinche blanco."

I don't think you know as much as YOU think you do.
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I don’t think you know as much as YOU think. My kid is a half and half coconut. He’s been called the n word by white people and Latinos, and gotten all other shit from Latinos for not being brown enough.
 
Grace T. said:
In this case I just laid out the lines. Dad4 drew the connection himself. I can’t help it if someone paints themselves into a corner between “I don’t care” (thus suggesting to themselves they are bigots) and having to draw the authoritarian hammer. In dad4s case I don’t think he’s a bigot just that he’s painted himself into a corner and didn’t think things through.

My best friend is a former d1 vball player. She and I have spoken about this several times and she disagrees vehemently about the issue of mtf in womens. sports. I laid out the facts to her: that it is more likely than not that this is a neurological condition not some life style choice, that keeping them amongst the men would lead to some bullying problems, that keeping them amongst the men is not a level playing field because once on t blockers surgery or estrogen they can’t remain competitive with the men, that requiring them to pass or to change early to play sports would just encourage more of them to do it early, and that there are ftm that have the opposite problem. Her response was something along the way of “gosh I didn’t look at things that way before. I still disagree mtf should be allowed to play with biological women but I agree we need to problem solve this. I don’t know if the answer is separate leagues or stricter protocols but i agree they are entitled to consideration too”. That gentlemen is a class act and a way to look at this minus any slobi style bigotry while still maintaining your position. There are no easy answers here other than “I don’t care about the trans. They are mentally ill and did this to themselves. F em”. That position is not only factually inaccurate but bigotry if you don’t check your priors. Again i point out it’s just the mens here, not your wives and daughters, getting all hot and bothered and somehow I doubt they’d be proud of the way some of you have handled yourselves.
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"I laid out the facts for her." I hope she didn't have any rope laying around the garage.
 
Grace T. said:
I don’t think you know as much as YOU think. My kid is a half and half coconut. He’s been called the n word by white people and Latinos, and gotten all other shit from Latinos for not being brown enough.
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Nobody uses the N word more than African American kids. Go ahead... tell me how that's different but acceptable.
 
Grace T. said:
Oh come on I was raked over the coals here for opposing hate speech limitations on nazis. My free speech credentials here are impecable

It’s not my fault you all can’t tell the difference between a hypothetical and actual position. I’m just pointing out where dad4s solution leads to which is authoritarianism or f the trans kid. That on YOU not me

Here’s the other thing I’m scratching my head about. My position is actually quite moderate and is being advanced by a woman and former athlete which you all purportedly intend to protect. But y’all goes all offended and stark raving mad. Why is that you suppose? It’s maybe because y’all’s position is easily to pick apart and hard to defend and it infuriates y’all that you can’t have it simple. I love my little soapbox…it’s pink and decorated with little unicorns.

Finally I am very comfortable being in the middle and generally attack from various directions, and on both sides, particularly if the arguments are relatively easy to trip up. I’ll remind you all of my track record: 2008, trump, Covid shutdowns, the 2020 crash, the Covid ifr, masks, the vax, Biden, j6, the great inflation.
Click to expand...
"My free speech credentials here are impecable'.

Um, only if you think you're free to misquote everyone else posting here.
 
Slobodan said:
Refusing to allow a MTF soccer player join and compete against females is not discriminatory.

Having all black colleges is discriminatory. Oh wait!
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Errrr….i get to show off how stupid you are again and that YOU don’t know as much as you think. All black colleges arose largely in the south because African Americans were not permitted to go to white university. They admit all people including white people. It was a plot point of “a different world” with Marisa tomeis character. It’s just a lot of white people don’t want to go to those colleges but they do admit them.
 
Slobodan said:
Instead of chasing ambulances and taking years off our lives with your dishonest posts, and by the way it's now AT LEAST 4 of us that have pointed out you misquote), maybe you should go after every ECNL that doesn't have a team within a 10 mile radius of every soccer player there is. Isn't that discriminatory? How else can Venus with a penis play in college, Grace? It's OUTLANDISH!!!
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Three in a row now I get to show you up and that YOU don’t know as much as you think. I’ve called out ecnl for not having a club in the downtown Latino triangle and letter leagues from freezing out Latino (and black clubs) like downtown la.
 
Grace T. said:
Three in a row now I get to show you up and that YOU don’t know as much as you think. I’ve called out ecnl for not having a club in the downtown Latino triangle and letter leagues from freezing out Latino (and black clubs) like downtown la.
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Yeah... that's pretty much all you do. Call everyone else out. And when you want to make a fight that isn't there, you just misquote everyone.

In other words, an ambulance chaser. Why don't YOU go start an ECNL in the projects?
 
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