5 biological men roster wins Australian women's soccer league title & also undefeated this season

[pewpew]

I’m not (at least not yet) necessarily throwing you into the same camp as slobi. I don’t know what’s in your heart (at least not yet). The applicable question for you is whether you care about the trans people having a level playing field and a safe place to play, and if so whatcha gonna do about it. In your case, at least, so far I think it has more to do with ignorance (the entire “mental illness” thing) than bigotry but time will tell now that you’ve been exposed to the information. Some people say “well let me study this some more…I may need to examine some of my priors and check to see if it’s true”. Others are “nope don’t want to hear it….they are sick sick sick”. Only you can answer which one you are. Hint: if you’ve been nodding along with Slobi, chances are you aren’t one of the good guys.

You can put me in whatever group helps you sleep at night. I don't care. Whether or not you think I'm one of the good guys? Again..I don't care.
When did you manage to take the moral high ground?
(Stepping off my milk crate. I'm not one of the "good guys" like you that uses a soap box.)
There is a safe place for them to play. You just don't want to conform to it but rather you want others to conform to your preference.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

You want tape. Ok.

"The hammer already exists. Try using that term on the pitch in NorCal. We’ve got no problem at all showing a red card and watching the dad walk his kid to the car."

All of that is still true. We do issue red cards for slurs. We do not mind sending a dad back to the car after his son is ejected. All true.

Now, does the foul mouthed kid get his red card in game #1 or game #4? I never promised. Depends on his luck.

So, I ask again. What are you hearing, how many teams, and in which league?

Nope, still missing the point, still trying to move the bar. Here's what you were responding to:

The international was a select team going to an academy trial......

They used to say the same thing to African America people (why not just go to another team or school or neighborhood where you'll be accepted). Why does my neighborhood property values have to take the hit? Again, if that wasn't o.k. then, then this wouldn't be an answer now. Then you'd have the problem with the teams they play against. You'd have to crack down on it, which means reeducating folks like Slobi and his kids. You either find a separate place for them to play (and go to the bathroom) or you use the hammer to eliminate the Slobis of the world (and throw his kids off the team or out of the school)....those are your choices. And from the GK forum stories BTW, team bullying doesn't exactly seem to be a rare occurence....frequently pops up over there.

and

BTW, just as an example, the hammer would include forcing Slobi and his kids to use the desired pronouns. I oppose that on free speech grounds but no parent of a trans kid trying to pass as a "her" is going to tolerate a team where they repeatedly use "he" (maybe even mockingly, driving the kid to tears). Now, you can say well they are mentally ill, and we shouldn't be forced to buy into their delusions, and they deserve what they get, but then the reality is you are just refusing to provide a place the player feels safe playing in. You are saying you don't care.

The proverbial "hammer", as discussed in what you were responding to, is one that would be effective in encouraging/forcing those who are behaving badly to not do so. In this case - it's bullying, whether racist, homophobic, transphobic, or any other particularly sh*tty kids use in competitive sports.

For the umpteenth time, you stating "We already have a hammer, and it's working because it never happens", is giving way too much credit to a system that doesn't do much at all from keeping that from happening, and even if it did it almost never is used anyway.

Whether that kind of behavior is evenly distributed across all teams in all scenarios isn't the point, which you continue to try and take it to, it's just also wrong to assume that it only happens on "those teams".

 

[pewpew]

See my post on radical Islam. Sometimes you can think you are a sheep dog but you are really just a wolf. Want to think the better of you. So far you are disappointing. I’m going to assume you’d limit yourself to violence on a wrongdoer that attempts to peep or molest your daughter and not someone like my cousin minding their own business but tell me if I’m wrong.

Again..still don't care what you think of me. I'm not seeking your approval. Anyone that knows me will tell you I'm a sheep dog and the furthest thing from being a wolf.

You're the type (sheep) that would welcome an intruder (wolf) into your house at 2am and apologize to him for his current situation. Feed him, give him some money, a place to sleep for the night, and send him on his way in the morning telling him you'll fix the glass he broke as he attempted to steal/assault/rape/kill you and your family.

He comes into my house uninvited at 2am and I'm sending him on a one-way ride to the coroner no questions asked. That's what a sheep dog does.

 

[pewpew]

Slobo, is this what you're talking about?

View attachment 23201


View attachment 23199

Dammit Your Grace!! Almost spit my water out with that one.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

You're the type (sheep) that would welcome an intruder (wolf) into your house at 2am and apologize to him for his current situation. Feed him, give him some money, a place to sleep for the night, and send him on his way in the morning telling him you'll fix the glass he broke as he attempted to steal/assault/rape/kill you and your family.

You really believe this, or pretending to be this dense to make a point? You may think you're coming across better than Slobi, and maybe you don't care whether you do or not. But your delusions are coming out more easily in every post.

 

[pewpew]

You really believe this, or pretending to be this dense to make a point? You may think you're coming across better than Slobi, and maybe you don't care whether you do or not. But your delusions are coming out more easily in every post.

Seeing a bit of sarcasm isn't your strong point is it? Don't really care what you think either. (So I guess you're right on that point)
But the 2am scenario in MY house is pretty much a given.

 

[Grace T.]

You can put me in whatever group helps you sleep at night. I don't care. Whether or not you think I'm one of the good guys? Again..I don't care.
When did you manage to take the moral high ground?
(Stepping off my milk crate. I'm not one of the "good guys" like you that uses a soap box.)
There is a safe place for them to play. You just don't want to conform to it but rather you want others to conform to your preference.

I’ve already proven there isn’t. Dad4 tied himself in knots over it. I also demonstrated why it isn’t a level playing field. Again we go back to the fact that while I’m trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, ultimately you don’t seem to care and in fact imply they deserve such treatment.

Again I’ll ask the question: any problem with my cousin using the restroom? Because if so she’s at Galaxy lafc with the nieces if you want to take a poke at her. I can most assure you she will be using the women’s restroom there.

Bottom line: if you are riding the slobi train into bigotry city you aren’t ones of the good Guys. Don’t use us women to justify your prejudices because it’s insulting. Those of you that got off the slobi train might very well just be good guys.

 

[Grace T.]

Nope, still missing the point, still trying to move the bar. Here's what you were responding to:



and



The proverbial "hammer", as discussed in what you were responding to, is one that would be effective in encouraging/forcing those who are behaving badly to not do so. In this case - it's bullying, whether racist, homophobic, transphobic, or any other particularly sh*tty kids use in competitive sports.

For the umpteenth time, you stating "We already have a hammer, and it's working because it never happens", is giving way too much credit to a system that doesn't do much at all from keeping that from happening, and even if it did it almost never is used anyway.

Whether that kind of behavior is evenly distributed across all teams in all scenarios isn't the point, which you continue to try and take it to, it's just also wrong to assume that it only happens on "those teams".

Well said. We’ve gone

“It never happens”
“It sometimes happens but it’s very rare”
“It happens but not in the places that matter” to
“Let me tell you why it’s a good thing we don’t punish all of it.”

 

[dad4]

Well said. We’ve gone

“It never happens”
“It sometimes happens but it’s very rare”
“It happens but not in the places that matter” to
“Let me tell you why it’s a good thing we don’t punish all of it.”

Thanks for putting words in my mouth, yet again.

When, exactly, did anything actually happen?

So far, all we have is one story about a kid who tried to enforce bedtime on unwilling teammates. Bad choice, as you’d expect. Also a bad choice of travelling companions.

That, and about twenty posts from RandomSoccerFan calling me a liar because I don’t agree with him.

Truth is, I don’t hear racial slurs on the pitch these days. Sorry if that bugs you.

 

[Grace T.]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth, yet again.

When, exactly, did anything actually happen?

So far, all we have is one story about a kid who tried to enforce bedtime on unwilling teammates. Bad choice, as you’d expect. Also a bad choice of travelling companions.

That, and about twenty posts from RandomSoccerFan calling me a liar because I don’t agree with him.

Truth is, I don’t hear racial slurs on the pitch these days. Sorry if that bugs you.

You yourself admitted that it happens however rarely, but in the most progressive and tolerant area likely in the country. Or as I would put it, the most progressive and tolerant area in the country and it STILL happens…what of the Los Angeles barrios, Orange County, Bakersfield or the counties of Jefferson and that’s before we even leave the state.

 

[crush]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth, yet again.

When, exactly, did anything actually happen?

So far, all we have is one story about a kid who tried to enforce bedtime on unwilling teammates. Bad choice, as you’d expect. Also a bad choice of travelling companions.

That, and about twenty posts from RandomSoccerFan calling me a liar because I don’t agree with him.

Truth is, I don’t hear racial slurs on the pitch these days. Sorry if that bugs you.

Grace is at it again. When Grace writes, she puts words in our mouths. It's a bandage of honor when she speaks words from our mouths. She called people bigots, racists, targets' and homophobe all because 93.4% of us are 100% against men like Lia playing with and against gurls in soccer.

 

[dad4]

You yourself admitted that it happens however rarely, but in the most progressive and tolerant area likely in the country. Or as I would put it, the most progressive and tolerant area in the country and it STILL happens…what of the Los Angeles barrios, Orange County, Bakersfield or the counties of Jefferson and that’s before we even leave the state.

I’ve taught in inner city schools. Customs are different there. So, yeah, I’ve heard it. Even there it was rare. Mostly when some kid was trying to start a fight.

That doesn’t mean I find it at all credible that you’re hearing N— and P— on the pitch week in and week out. So often, in fact, that you consider it unsafe.

If you’re actually hearing it with any frequency, speak up. So far, all you two have done is insist it is common, give no details, and call me names for saying my experience was different.

 

[Grace T.]

Grace is at it again. When Grace writes, she puts words in our mouths. It's a bandage of honor when she speaks words from our mouths. She called people bigots, racists, targets' and homophobe all because 93.4% of us are 100% against men like Lia playing with and against gurls in soccer.

View attachment 23205

Oh crush the only one I’ve accused of bigotry, and with a firm foundation since on page 1 he used a slur and then continued to use is, is slobi. I’ve said you can argue this topic without being a bigot, that I appreciate watfly and dad4 saying when slobi went too far, have not said anything against you (with reason), and have reserved judgment on pew because I’m not really sure what’s going on there. It’s not a word to be thrown around lightly.

But let me crack out the translator one more time. Help me translator with the entire words in the mouth thing:
“We don’t appreciate the lawyer when she uses our own words against us. We don’t like having to clarify our statements or being questioned on exactly what they mean. It’s not fair. “

 

[Grace T.]

I’ve taught in inner city schools. Customs are different there. So, yeah, I’ve heard it. Even there it was rare. Mostly when some kid was trying to start a fight.

That doesn’t mean I find it at all credible that you’re hearing N— and P— on the pitch week in and week out. So often, in fact, that you consider it unsafe.

If you’re actually hearing it with any frequency, speak up. So far, all you two have done is insist it is common, give no details, and call me names for saying my experience was different.

I have not called you any name. In fact I’ve specifically said I appreciated you called out slobi when he went too far. You and others just don’t like when your own words are thrown back on you. “It’s not fair”.

Again we’re back at “was rare” so you admit it’s happening and then try to turn it around to why that’s ok. That’s not the burden of proof I need to meet. I only have to show that it’s happening. And I didn’t give you one example. I gave you several including two that happened to my kid, and three that happened to teammates, in both Latino and white areas, though admittedly the more working class the more likely it was to happen. And I have spoken up about it on other forums repeatedly especially because my kid has played on Latino clubs teams, Latino league teams and I’ve reffed in the val. And there’s the fifa example with the p word. Again my burden is met. I can’t help it if you don’t like it because it throws a wrench in your preferred plan. Here’s the hammer btw…it’s sitting nice and warm for ya.

 

[dad4]

I have not called you any name. In fact I’ve specifically said I appreciated you called out slobi when he went too far. You and others just don’t like when your own words are thrown back on you. “It’s not fair”.

Again we’re back at “was rare” so you admit it’s happening and then try to turn it around to why that’s ok. That’s not the burden of proof I need to meet. I only have to show that it’s happening. And I didn’t give you one example. I gave you several including two that happened to my kid, and three that happened to teammates, in both Latino and white areas, though admittedly the more working class the more likely it was to happen. And I have spoken up about it on other forums repeatedly especially because my kid has played on Latino clubs teams, Latino league teams and I’ve reffed in the val. And there’s the fifa example with the p word. Again my burden is met. I can’t help it if you don’t like it because it throws a wrench in your preferred plan. Here’s the hammer btw…it’s sitting nice and warm for ya.

Easy to meet a burden when you declare the standard, and you sit in judgement of whether it is met. By that logic, I am the true hereditary King of England. Apologies to his Grace.

I don’t referee latino league, but it wouldn’t surprise me. If you can have a stadium chant of “puto”, you can probably hear it at Saturday league games. Again, different culture.

But we’re talking about finding a welcoming environment for an XY kid with gender issues. Are you serious proposing a Latino League girl’s team as your #1 choice for that kid?

Or are you saying that, because Latino League uses it, therefore we can draw a conclusion about safety in completely different leagues?

 

[Grace T.]

Easy to meet a burden when you declare the standard, and you sit in judgement of whether it is met. By that logic, I am the true hereditary King of England. Apologies to his Grace.

I don’t referee latino league, but it wouldn’t surprise me. If you can have a stadium chant of “puto”, you can probably hear it at Saturday league games. Again, different culture.

But we’re talking about finding a welcoming environment for an XY kid with gender issues. Are you serious proposing a Latino League girl’s team as your #1 choice for that kid?

Or are you saying that, because Latino League uses it, therefore we can draw a conclusion about safety in completely different leagues?

Here’s why that standard. Because otherwise it’s discriminatory. Again you wouldn’t tell the African American guy he has to find a job in a company that will accept him, go to a neighborhood that won’t harass him, or go to a school that will take his kid. “Why do my property values have to suffer”. Discrimination law doesn’t put it on him to find some place acceptable. It says all places must accept.

Hammers still here. I’ve even carved your name on it. Come on. You know you want to. Think about it. It’s calling out to you. You’ll have such a good time. Australia part deux. Come on…it will be good!

 

[Grace T.]

Here’s why that standard. Because otherwise it’s discriminatory. Again you wouldn’t tell the African American guy he has to find a job in a company that will accept him, go to a neighborhood that won’t harass him, or go to a school that will take his kid. “Why do my property values have to suffer”. Discrimination law doesn’t put it on him to find some place acceptable. It says all places must accept.

Hammers still here. I’ve even carved your name on it. Come on. You know you want to. Think about it. It’s calling out to you. You’ll have such a good time. Australia part deux. Come on…it will be good!

Btw that’s why allowing them to play on the girls team or providing them a separate space to play in does provide some leverage against the discrimination charge. “Your honor…we gave them what they wanted but it’s not our fault this dad slobi doesn’t like them”. “Your honor we gave them a separate safe place to play in but it’s not our fault they don’t want it.” But “we forced them [ftm] to play with the boys and then did nothing when they were picked on and discriminated against” doesn’t work. The trade off is having to order slobi to not say certain things, to use his pronouns, and to take away certain parenting decisions away from him in order to reeducate his kids if needed. But “f the trans kid and have them find a place to play in…I’m sure they exist somewhere” doesn’t work for the trans kid any more than it does for the African American guy, or the Jewish guy, or the gay guy.

 

[watfly]

You just don't want to conform to it but rather you want others to conform to your preference.

AKA "free speech near absolutist".

 

[dad4]

Here’s why that standard. Because otherwise it’s discriminatory. Again you wouldn’t tell the African American guy he has to find a job in a company that will accept him, go to a neighborhood that won’t harass him, or go to a school that will take his kid. “Why do my property values have to suffer”. Discrimination law doesn’t put it on him to find some place acceptable. It says all places must accept.

Hammers still here. I’ve even carved your name on it. Come on. You know you want to. Think about it. It’s calling out to you. You’ll have such a good time. Australia part deux. Come on…it will be good!

So, if you can't win the argument, imply that the other person is racist.

No thanks. Asking an XY athlete to move to the boys team at the same club isn't remotely similar to redlining.

Do you need someone to spell out the differences for you?

 

[Grace T.]

So, if you can't win the argument, imply that the other person is racist.

No thanks. Asking an XY athlete to move to the boys team at the same club isn't remotely similar to redlining.

Do you need someone to spell out the differences for you?

I’m not implying anything. You are.

Here’s how: because if you come to the answer f the trans kid, make him play xy and don’t force others to comply to make her (yes in that case it would be “her”) safe, you aren’t doing anything for that person

There are three possible answers here: discrimination law rubric (in which case yes it’s exactly the African American or gay guy), disability law rubric (in which case it’s like the guy in the wheel chair…the accommodation just has to be reasonable) or nothing (f you you aren’t entitled to protections). It’s for that very reason I favor the disability law rubric but neither of the extremists on both sides likes that. One reason I favor it is because it doesn’t impinge on free speech. If your answer is the third then we have to ask why. And no guy here has been able to answer that satisfactorily without falling back on bigotry or, like you, sticking your fingers in your ears because you don’t like the answer and would prefer to ignore it. Again, I point out it’s not your wives and daughters in here making the arguments…it’s all men.