5 biological men roster wins Australian women's soccer league title & also undefeated this season

[Grace T.]

So you are ok "forcing" others to use pronouns...which by the way is total BS...but forcing an obvious MTF that obviously looks like "HE" does not belong there out of the women's restroom is bad? Got it.

Btw...what's "dead name?"

Back to the whole pronoun crap. Where/when did the train come off the rails that we started to entertain this crap?
If I want you to address me as "Your Highness" are you going to, or will you think I'm a total idiot?
Because having to refer to another human being as he/him/she/her..and even more ridiculous they/them is some
of the dumbest crock of BS that I have ever seen!!

No. I’m a free speech near absolutist. My point is that dad4s approach would require massive hammers against people like Aloni including pronoun enforcement. Every scheme has a problem with it…that’s dad4s

 

[Grace T.]

You need to really pump the brakes on bringing @Slobodan's kids into the mix...or anyone else's kids for that matter. I'm not defending him by any means, he's more than capable of handling that. I'm calling you out on your conduct. You can say what you want to the other members on this forum. But don't start bringing the kids into it. Act like an adult. You don't know a damn thing about anyone's kids or how they conduct themselves so knock that crap off!!

No, we shouldn't be forced to buy into their delusions. So we aren't providing a safe place for the MTF player to play in? Yes we are.
It's on...wait for it...the boys team.
We need to make a safe place for Paul-turned-Paula, but if HE starts laying out the other biological females on the field because HE is bigger
and stronger and players are getting hurt it's just part of the game right? We've FAILED to provide them a safe place to play because we had
to cater to the needs of a biological male who doesn't feel safe playing with other boys but is just fine playing with girls and laying them out or
smashing their records that they've worked so hard to earn.

I now return you to your soapbox @Grace T.
Please continue.

1. I told you my preferred solution is separate teams where feasible.
2. None of the solutions here are perfect. I just pointed out the issue with dad4s in that it requires overriding free speech and massive bullying control including on the way people want to raise their kids
3. My objection is when people’s preferred solution is when picking which flawed solution to use the one they go to is let’s screw the trans kid. You should care about the safety and opportunity to play of ALL kids and if you don’t that might just mean something else is motivating you
4. I didn’t mean slobis actual kids. In fact I doubt very much his kids support his bigotry. But in this hypothetical world where a bigot like slobi had kids that mirrored his views dad 4s solution would require their reeducation or expulsion which I object to
5. In fairness slobi did say his wife and kids support his views but I agree we have no way of knowing if that actually true

 

[Grace T.]

If your kid's team can't score they can't win. It's pretty simple. You failed in that you should've addressed that kind of BS conduct from teammates
the first time any conduct beyond a few words exchanged happened. And as a GK you know they have to be hardened to the BS that teammates might try to throw at them.

My GK was never bullied. Not once. I'm not making that up either. There was one year in that the team she played on found us often losing 0-1 after multiple saves by her, and a bunch of missed shots on goal by our strikers. The walk to the parking lot was long and quiet at times. But we also had parents of the strikers that weren't scoring that were mature and knowledgeable enough to know that we needed to score in order to win. That team dissolved at the end of the season. The coach said the club was doing a re-org but honestly I think he was tired with a lot of the whiny parents. He was a good coach too. We liked him. But the drive killed us so we were kinda glad it disbanded.

Shortly after we left that team, we were guest playing with a team from San Diego for West Coast FC's tournament. (3 years in a row she guested
with different teams and helped get each team to the Semi's.) This team took her sight unseen as did a few of the other teams that
had borrowed her based on word-of-mouth from other teams. We played against a few players from our former team and beat them 2-0 with a few awesome saves from my GK. After the game we were talking with a few of those former parents, including a pair of real catty moms that were the team managers who didn't realize until after it was our kid between the sticks. "She had a really great game. She's really improved." WTH?!?!
Me..."Not really..nothing has changed from a few months ago. She's always played like that. The difference here is this team could score. I think we
just knocked you guys out and we're going to the Semi's. Have a good weekend." There were a few jaws dropped. Lol

She was the enforcer on her team. NEVER started anything but was always there to either squash problems before they started with another team or to finish it. Becoming a black belt in karate while in HS definitely helped boost her confidence and fearlessness.

I didn’t fail at anything. It was an international select team with kids at any academy trial so he didn’t know most of them until that week. I wasn’t there. Moreover if your kid is in high school they need to handle it by themselves…if you are meddling that’s not a good idea for a variety of reasons your story suggests. It’s a great story btw. My kid is also a black belt. He dealt with it. No one messed with him afterwards. They went on to win the championship. But if he had been trans I doubt that would have ended it…boys need to respect each other…bullying is a function of a lack of respect….some like slobi will never respect the trans person without massive reeducation….i oppose said reeducation….girls are different and focus on agreeability though the male parents, as highlighted in this forum, are always the bigger issue

 

[crush]

1. I told you my preferred solution is separate teams where feasible.
2. None of the solutions here are perfect. I just pointed out the issue with dad4s in that it requires overriding free speech and massive bullying control including on the way people want to raise their kids
3. My objection is when people’s preferred solution is when picking which flawed solution to use the one they go to is let’s screw the trans kid. You should care about the safety and opportunity to play of ALL kids and if you don’t that might just mean something else is motivating you
4. I didn’t mean slobis actual kids. In fact I doubt very much his kids support his bigotry. But in this hypothetical world where a bigot like slobi had kids that mirrored his views dad 4s solution would require their reeducation or expulsion which I object to
5. In fairness slobi did say his wife and kids support his views but I agree we have no way of knowing if that actually true

Leave his kids out of this. You're starting to sound like EOTL.

 

[Grace T.]

Leave his kids out of this. You're starting to sound like EOTL.

Again I didn’t mean his actual kids but his hypothetical ones (we don’t even know if he has kids plural). Reason why is because under dad4’s “force everyone to be nice” solution it requires taking certain parenting choices away from people, and my objection is no….people (even slobi) should be free to raise their kids how they want…I’m a free speech absolutist. But point taken if you find it distracting.

 

[crush]

Again I didn’t mean his actual kids but his hypothetical ones (we don’t even know if he has kids plural). Reason why is because under dad4’s “force everyone to be nice” solution it requires taking certain parenting choices away from people, and my objection is no….people (even slobi) should be free to raise their kids how they want…I’m a free speech absolutist. But point taken if you find it distracting.

Back to the OP. Is it fair to have Lia Thomas type girl soccer players? We all agree, "No." The rest of these examples are less than 1% of 1%. Does that make sense? Let's knock it off Grace.

 

[dad4]

This is what is called backtracking. Let's go to the tape:



This is what you believe. This is a nice thought, and it might even be what most would want to be true. However, it is not. By far. If you believe it to be the case you are either inobservant, a little slow, or intentionally lying - none of which is a good look. Let's look at it again:



What you are saying is untrue. It is not the case in NorCal. You were called out gently for stating something that was not terribly accurate. Either stand by it and continue to be ridiculed, or admit that what you are stating as an existing solution, isn't.

You want me to believe that when San Juan plays Mustang, it's a constant stream of f bombs and racial slurs.

Bull crap. Been there. That's not what you hear.

I just reffed a game where the center gave a yellow for simple taunting. No swearing. No slur. Just a taunt. But it was a lopsided game and he didn't want retaliation, so he came down hard. The other AR and I both agreed it was the right call.

That's normal around here. Not sure where you're finding games full of racial slurs, unless you're embellishing the truth to make your point

 

[dad4]

Again I didn’t mean his actual kids but his hypothetical ones (we don’t even know if he has kids plural). Reason why is because under dad4’s “force everyone to be nice” solution it requires taking certain parenting choices away from people, and my objection is no….people (even slobi) should be free to raise their kids how they want…I’m a free speech absolutist. But point taken if you find it distracting.

My solution is not "force everyone to be nice".

It's "The world has a lot of nice people. Find them and play there."

The mean people still exist. You're just choosing to avoid them.

Much simpler than "act like Lia Thomas, and call everyone transphobe when they give you the cold shoulder."

 

[Grace T.]

My solution is not "force everyone to be nice".

It's "The world has a lot of nice people. Find them and play there."

The mean people still exist. You're just choosing to avoid them.

Much simpler than "act like Lia Thomas, and call everyone transphobe when they give you the cold shoulder."

The problem with that is it’s discrimination. You can’t say let the African American/gay/jewish guy find a job that wants him, the neighborhood that won’t harass him, the sports team that won’t call his kid the n word. You preferred solution does not provide a safe place for the player to play but puts it on that player to find a space, which may not be available elsewhere. It is a solution which flies in the face of discrimination law, and it California is most likely unconstitutional if government were to endorse it.

 

[Grace T.]

The problem with that is it’s discrimination. You can’t say let the African American/gay/jewish guy find a job that wants him, the neighborhood that won’t harass him, the sports team that won’t call his kid the n word. You preferred solution does not provide a safe place for the player to play but puts it on that player to find a space, which may not be available elsewhere. It is a solution which flies in the face of discrimination law, and it California is most likely unconstitutional if government were to endorse it.

Btw circling back to your point about fina…that’s where they are getting tripped up on. Kicking the mtf to the m division and calling it “open” likely doesn’t survive the European discrimination laws and the European charter or the Swiss courts which have ultimate jurisdiction over this. Hence the last minute third league as a fig leaf. You are arguing for a solution which is illegal in a ton of jurisdictions and would represent a major step back in discriminated groups were it to be adopted. You are left with the hammer.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

You want me to believe that when San Juan plays Mustang, it's a constant stream of f bombs and racial slurs.

Bull crap. Been there. That's not what you hear.

I just reffed a game where the center gave a yellow for simple taunting. No swearing. No slur. Just a taunt. But it was a lopsided game and he didn't want retaliation, so he came down hard. The other AR and I both agreed it was the right call.

That's normal around here. Not sure where you're finding games full of racial slurs, unless you're embellishing the truth to make your point

Let's do this again. Here's what you said:

The hammer already exists. Try using that term on the pitch in NorCal. We’ve got no problem at all showing a red card and watching the dad walk his kid to the car.

At that point, the dad has two choices. He can teach his kid not to pick fights, or he can find another league.

It works, and it's better than your solution. You suspect that some boys are going to mistreat someone. Instead of dealing with the misbehavior if and when it happens or finding a better behaved group of boys, you choose to stomp all over the rights of a completely unrelated group of girls.

This is apparently what you continue to believe.

You are stating a mistruth. Some call it lying. Kids are sent off with Reds for this behavior 1 out of 100 times when this happens, if even that much. Could it be effective if implemented as you describe? Maybe, but it sure hasn't been so far.

 

[crush]

Let's do this again. Here's what you said:



This is apparently what you continue to believe.

You are stating a mistruth. Some call it lying. Kids are sent off with Reds for this behavior 1 out of 100 times when this happens, if even that much. Could it be effective if implemented as you describe? Maybe, but it sure hasn't been so far.

Dad is a two-face joker type of liar. He went from Math Professor to a ref to earn side hustle. He's full of poo poo and mistruths.

 

[crush]

Breaking News: Men are stealing the identity of real women; Also, it's being reported that people are now eating our pets. God help us all.

Watch: https://1a-1791.com/video/s8/2/9/p/d/H/9pdHt.caa.mp4?b=1&u=ummtf

 

[watfly]

I’m a free speech near absolutist.

 

[Grace T.]

I am. Proud of it. And got dragged for it during Covid.

It’s why i oppose dad4s solution. I also wouldn’t say ban the drag shows. My question is whether they are ethical. Finally I’m opposed to forcing people to use pronouns, but if I’m the shop steward representing the trans people, I’m never going to take the deal that says: trans athletes can’t play in the gender they identify, they don’t get a separate place to compete, mtf have to play with the men, but we won’t do anything to ensure they can compete on a level playing field and arent bullied, trans people can’t use the bathrooms they identify, they don’t get separate facilities, we won’t do anything to ensure they are safe and aren’t bullied, and it’s cool for people like slobi to slur them because they are “mentally ill”. Pass. You insist on that deal and people far less moderate than me will take over and all you’ll have is the boot then.

 

[dad4]

Let's do this again. Here's what you said:



This is apparently what you continue to believe.

You are stating a mistruth. Some call it lying. Kids are sent off with Reds for this behavior 1 out of 100 times when this happens, if even that much. Could it be effective if implemented as you describe? Maybe, but it sure hasn't been so far.

So, what do you say is true? Who is saying what, when, which league, and how often?

I've told you what I see and hear. Very little, usually under the breath. And carded often enough to catch kids who make a habit of it. Much like the low level game I reffed this morning. That was yellow just for a taunt.

What do you see and hear? Specifics. If it is one game in ten, say so. If it is every game, say that. Don't forget to name the league, region, and level.
Time to put up or shut up. If this is actually happening in a significant way, let's hear about it.

 

[Grace T.]

So, what do you say is true? Who is saying what, when, which league, and how often?

I've told you what I see and hear. Very little, usually under the breath. And carded often enough to catch kids who make a habit of it. Much like the low level game I reffed this morning. That was yellow just for a taunt.

What do you see and hear? Specifics. If it is one game in ten, say so. If it is every game, say that. Don't forget to name the league, region, and level.
Time to put up or shut up. If this is actually happening in a significant way, let's hear about it.

The point is you went from it doesn’t happen to “very little”. If it’s very little that also excludes the times you didn’t hear it. “Carded often enough” means sometimes it’s not carded. But it happens enough that both you and random have heard it even in the socialist utopia of NorCal. You’re left with either use the hammer or “I don’t care…let me tell you why it isn’t a big deal”. If it’s the latter that’s wrong. And I told you that’s where you would wind up.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

And again.

Here's what you said.

The hammer already exists. Try using that term on the pitch in NorCal. We’ve got no problem at all showing a red card and watching the dad walk his kid to the car.

At that point, the dad has two choices. He can teach his kid not to pick fights, or he can find another league.

It works, and it's better than your solution. You suspect that some boys are going to mistreat someone. Instead of dealing with the misbehavior if and when it happens or finding a better behaved group of boys, you choose to stomp all over the rights of a completely unrelated group of girls.

When called on it, you tried to change the terms. Doesn't work in debate, doesn't work here, and doesn't make you seem anything other than either intentionally or unintentionally wrong.

 

[dad4]

And again.

Here's what you said.



When called on it, you tried to change the terms. Doesn't work in debate, doesn't work here, and doesn't make you seem anything other than either intentionally or unintentionally wrong.

You want tape. Ok.

"The hammer already exists. Try using that term on the pitch in NorCal. We’ve got no problem at all showing a red card and watching the dad walk his kid to the car."

All of that is still true. We do issue red cards for slurs. We do not mind sending a dad back to the car after his son is ejected. All true.

Now, does the foul mouthed kid get his red card in game #1 or game #4? I never promised. Depends on his luck.

So, I ask again. What are you hearing, how many teams, and in which league?

 

[Slobodan]

Wait. The Minnesota Bill covered Connecticut and Oregon too? What about states’ rights? Damn you, Tampon Tim.

Oh... you want state's rights. Have you told the democrats that isn't the antichrist?

Take a seat... or better yet, head back home. Your day at school is over.