You are 100% correct, TMI BTW!!! Watty going to Blacks Beach with espola in a thong is way too hot and this kind of chat needs to be taken over in the kitchen where the truth belongs.
5 biological men roster wins Australian women's soccer league title & also undefeated this season
- Thread starter Veritas
- Start date
I don't know how old you are, but this has been true for at least the last century and likely much longer. The specific words and groups change, but there has always been context switching among marginalized groups and (re)appropriation of slurs.
Ha no. This takes a very narrow view of our species. For most of our species' history bathing was done communally. It still is in many parts of the world. While certain cultures do traditionally split the sexes, even then, depending on the exact nature of the taboo, exceptions would be made for people who identify one way or the other. For places that don't allow even that, people would have to hide their identity. What's changing now is not so much how we handle bathrooms and locker rooms, but the fact that people who have been hiding their identities to conform to the cultural norms are refusing to.
Karlton Athletic
SILVER
Well said. I grew up in the UK and was caught off guard on my first school trip to France with their communal bathrooms and swimming pool changing rooms: First I knew was when I was using a urinal, and a woman appeared next to me to wash her hands. After my initial surprise, it was all normal by the end of the trip.
After all that hysteria over the Algerian boxer in the Olympics, the obvious takeaway, even for those opposed to her competing against other women, should have been that gender isn't as simple as Women are Women and Men are Men. I'll admit it's a tricky subject with regards to sport, but that doesn't mean we should hate on people for the way they were born. We need to figure out workable solutions.
I think your logical stance is absolutely wrong. The first issue is you are confusing the social construct of the nowadays term of gender with biological sex which is determined scientifically and objectively. Gender should not be part of sports and the segregation of sports should only be based on biological sex period. This is the only way to make it fair for what we used to call women now you call them cis women. Cisgender women only compete with cisgender women period. There are far too many ways to bend the rules if we tackle this subjectively based on how others feel to identify.
a. Well, as the Algerian boxer showed, one issue is that it is unclear what constitutes "biological sex". Admittedly, it affects only a very small percentage of people, but it would seem that the logical question, at least when it comes to sports, is whether the individual has gone through male puberty, not chromosome (since note there are more possible combinations than just xx and xy and that doesn't address some rare hormonal issues). Admittedly, a small percentage of people, though I think if we did rigorous screenings on all female athletes starting at the youth level people would realize that the problem is not as rare as they thought. But admitted, it is still a small problem, so set that aside for now.
2. Fairness, as I've pointed out as a construct. Yes, a level playing field (the the extent we can get it) is a concern in sports but there are other concerns including efficiency (or we'd screen every teenager in youth soccer for PEDs) and participation (or women's sports would not exist). Fairness are the words a child uses to complain about things, and in sports things are largely determined by accidents of birth and a function of the applicable rules.
3. Given participation is a concern, it is not sufficiency to say "cisgender women only compete with cisgender women period." (BTW, nice double entendre). You also have to answer the question well how are you "fair" from a participation point of view to the people you exclude. It's not enough to say "too bad so sad, go compete with the men" (which, because testosterone suppressors and female hormones are performance reducing substances, they won't be able to do). The burden shifts to you to come up with a reasonable solution that answers the participation concern.
4. And no "just play coed" is not a sufficient answer because we don't do that with women so you have an equal protection/opportunity issue there to. We could tell women "just play coed" and do away with women's sports as well, and give that money to the "best" athletes (with the exception of some of the grace sports like iceskating and rhythmic gymnastics, are all male).
RandomSoccerFan
GOLD
And it sounds like you are oversimplifying the case that "biological sex" can only have 1 of 2 outcomes. Unfortunately, that's not the case.
Of course there are any number of well-intentioned debates and disagreements about how to handle these circumstances well outside the norm as applied to sports - but taking the high ground on "scientifically and objectively" means doing exactly that.
Sex Redefined: The Idea of 2 Sexes Is Overly Simplistic
Biologists now think there is a larger spectrum than just binary female and male
This is very true from all historical accounts. Where things begin to change (making a broad historical notation, so it's limited) is when religions begin to form into power structures. Christianity, for example, loses some of the Roman looseness with the sexes around the time the church begins to consolidate the priesthood and philosophically when Augustine veers the church away from Johannine-Neoplatonic virtue ethics to principles of original sin. Hinduism after the adoption of the Upanishads. Confucianism with the rise of the neoConfucians sponsored by Han dynasty. Islam with the establishment of the Abbasid caliphate. It tends to reverse itself when the religion goes through reformation (which only really Western Christianity and Judaism have accomplished) and is supplanted by postmodernism.
What constitutes biological sex? Just look at nature for the answer. The universe naturally produces male or female in almost everything in biology and is 100% evident in the mammalian class. That balance seems necessary for procreation in the reality we experience. Anything outside that binary is an outlier, a genetic flaw in the DNA code, like hermaphroditism or DSD. It’s similar to a computer code that isn’t perfect and has a bug. That’s how it has always been, and that’s how it will be in the future—anything outside of that is either genetically manipulated by intelligent life or simply an error in nature. There's no such thing as biological sex being a spectrum; that's complete pseudo-science BS created by a new neo leftist agenda.
When it comes to fairness, I don’t mind so much if pre-puberty girls play with boys and vice versa; it's after puberty when it no longer becomes fair. Women’s sports need a clear and objective definition of what qualifies someone to compete biologically.
From a participation standpoint, consider the new generation where now 1 in 5 identify as non-binary. We’re talking about millions now, so they can definitely have their own league. They are quick to claim there are more genders than male or female, yet want to be included in the binary male or female categories when it’s convenient for their narcissistic cause. It makes no sense at all. They have the numbers today to start their own league, go play coed, go play with men, go play with who you identify with, but please stay away from biological females. If you have a daughter who plays sports, this should be a no-brainer.
This is complete pseudo science. SomeAnd it sounds like you are oversimplifying the case that "biological sex" can only have 1 of 2 outcomes. Unfortunately, that's not the case.
Of course there are any number of well-intentioned debates and disagreements about how to handle these circumstances well outside the norm as applied to sports - but taking the high ground on "scientifically and objectively" means doing exactly that.
Sex Redefined: The Idea of 2 Sexes Is Overly Simplistic
Biologists now think there is a larger spectrum than just binary female and malewww.scientificamerican.com
Leftist scholar with a twisted agenda most likely wrote this insane ridiculous article with a failed logical argument that goes against nature with the intent to brain wash the new generation.
Thoughts? Is this fair?
View attachment 22808
Women's soccer club that features several transgender players wins league title, finishes undefeated
Australia's Flying Bats FC, which features five transgender players, won the women's Premier League in North West Sydney over the weekend.www.foxnews.com
I don't think it's fair for the girls who are competing in that league.
I don't want to get political or make a social commentary - I have Twitter and Reddit for that on which I can be very opinionated...
But strictly thinking if I had a daughter competing in this and lost to a team of half girls and half boys, I don't think I would be okay with that.
If they're going to do this, why have a girl's or women's league at all?
Great point. For me there is a simple solution to this issue. The solution is to create a new category in sports called cisgender women. The trans can compete in the women’s category and all the biological females are protected. Problem is solved. Since they already hi jacked the term woman they can have it all to themselves now. Ain’t nobody paying dollars to go watch trans women compete in soccer…this is the sure way to kill women sports
I agree there’s no such thing as a gender spectrum. However it’s also not as easy as saying chromosomes. You have to account for those rarities too (including hormone imbalances) which among top female athletes are not as rare as you’d assume (hence the boxers).
I also agree you should not be allowed to have your cake and eat it too. But it’s not as easy to say it’s a “no brainer” since the problem isn’t as simple as you make it out. It is if you only care about “fairness” and only then in biological girls, but I can also just complain about “fairness” and say scholarships should only go to the best athletes (which is a no brainer if you have a boy and only care about him). But we care about other values including efficiency (why we don’t test all youth athletes for peds) and participation (which is why we have women’s sports at all)
This has been quite a discussion.Thoughts? Is this fair?
View attachment 22808Women's soccer club that features several transgender players wins league title, finishes undefeated
Australia's Flying Bats FC, which features five transgender players, won the women's Premier League in North West Sydney over the weekend.
RandomSoccerFan
GOLD
Got, thanks. I wasn't sure if you were being sincere. Your position is clear. It's just that when you use the terms Science and Objectivity, you should probably put them in quotes and italicize them. Then having them defined as "what I already believe and want to be true" would be better understood by the reader.
What started as a means to encourage participation in sports is now on the verge of becoming a business that people pay for. If we want to make cisgender women’s sports successful, it should be exclusive to biological females. That’s what we, as consumers of female sports, are paying for. I’m not saying that if you’re trans, you shouldn’t participate by all means, play the sport and love it like everyone else. But we all need to understand that life has consequences for individual actions. Your mistakes in the past will haunt you in the future, just as your work ethic and effort will also be rewarded.
There are plenty of talented women who don’t make it to D1 or play professionally. It’s part of life and part of striving for success. If you are a man who wants to transition to a trans woman, so be it, more power to you. But understand that there is a price to pay, both in society and in nature. You have every right to compete in the male category, which is what nature assigned you, but you do not have the right or privilege to participate in biological female sports. This is universal common sense and natural law. Biological females are not equal to biological males and should always be separated in sports, regardless of what you decide to do with your body and gender.
Bunch of assumptions here I’d challenge
-ok if it’s a business no subsidies, no title ix equivalencies for scholarship. Let the market decide. We’ll see how many women’s sports are left (not many…almost all are subsidized)
-successful assumes facts not in evidence. It begs the question of what is the measure of success. If financial womens sports are an abysmal failure.
-“mistakes” is a value judgment about what you think is happening here. Your bias is showing.
-like gayness you assume it’s some life style choice. There seem to be biological links including autism and a difference in brain structure.
-the question of separateness is different from the question of what access you then have to give. Dumping them into the male category doesn’t achieve that. You want to separateness, as you state there’s a price to be paid: subsidize it out of the boys and girls. Less money for them.
-natural law. Snort. I hate aquinas. Left and right Both use it as a way to impose their vision of morality.
Okay, @Grace T., I’m not going to follow your silly jargon. If you had a daughter, I’m sure you’d understand. it’s just simple common sense no need to complicate anything here. How did we, as a society, suddenly forget the definition of a woman? An adult female person. Female stemming from biology:
ridiculous the reality we are now experiencing… personally I can care less about trans rights when you are destroying biological women rights in the process. I wish them well with their life but stay the f out women sports is all I care about and I will fight it til the end
Because things in life always isn’t as simple as all that. Simplicity gets us into problems like when people suggest oh let’s just have to govt cap grocery store prices: it’s easy!Okay, @Grace T., I’m not going to follow your silly jargon. If you had a daughter, I’m sure you’d understand. it’s just simple common sense no need to complicate anything here. How did we, as a society, suddenly forget the definition of a woman? An adult female person. Female stemming from biology:
Btw even that Websters is awful. What is that letter b…occupation??????? a. Begs the question by defining it in reference to female….ok define that????? Wow even Websters tied itself in a knot which is fing hilarious.
