5 biological men roster wins Australian women's soccer league title & also undefeated this season

[Veritas]

FINA tried creating a competition to accommodate MTF trans swimmers. Zero people chose to apply.

Swimming World Cup open category debut fails to attract single entrant

World Aquatics has shelved plans to debut an open category designed to accommodate transgender athletes at its Swimming World Cup in Germany's capital...

www.insidethegames.biz

That kills the argument that “they just want to compete.”. When given a chance to compete as equals, none of them wanted it.

They seem to think they can have their cake and eat it too... This is where I draw the line and call BS on all these activists. They want all the rights of a woman by putting on their costume. Completely ridiculous.

 

[Grace T.]

I question whether the National/International sport-specific organizations would be the appropriate or the most qualified entity to administer these competitions. Is FINA and IAAF involved in administering other accommodation competitions, like SO, for their particular sport?

Even if the courts rule against MTF, I don't know if the demand or the desire exists for a 3rd category. I also don't see X's with low T or female DSD having a strong interest either. Courts or no courts, I think a 3rd category is a subjective nightmare in terms of attempting to level the playing field.

IMO the Courts only end it if they rule in favor of MTF's. Otherwise, the MTF's will continue to find Courts that will rule in their favor. For that matter, biological females will probably do the same thing.

The problem legally is under the European charter “too bad so sad” doesn’t really work as a response. Europe has shown an openness to the disability law rubric. Disability law generally qualifies the argument as a “reasonable” accommodation which finas argument is: inclusion is not a reasonable accommodation due to the performance gap. But in order to make that argument stick you have to have an alternative accommodation (hence the last minute fig leaf offered). The problem in the U.S. is that we’ve been stuck in a definitional war with the Biden admin arguing gender discrimination applies to trans and the cons responding with “what is a woman”: it makes it all or nothing. Which means if I’m forum shopping where to sue, I pick Europe unless the U.S. elections result in a court packing boom. Short of that I think in the U.S. we are headed for dueling jurisdictions that set off a federal crisis on the issue since Florida and California are likely to come to opposite all or nothing conclusions under their constitutions. The lawsuit will then turn on not title ix (again unless the ds win and pack the courts) but on how full faith and credit operates. For example if ca deems an athlete entitled to a right to participate does fl have to allow that athlete to compete in a competition in Florida

Similarly I think legally the result of sticking it with so is more likely to force so to be integrated to non disabled sports under the European legal rubric. It’s why such an outcome would likely be fought by both orgs like fina and the disabled community.

 

[Grace T.]

She He just can't call up FINA and say "I'm in". She He has to go through the national affiliate.

I come down with Jordan Peterson on this. No government should force you to use pronouns. However so long as they are generally recognized pronouns (he she they) and you don’t use someone’s preferred pronoun or name, you are an ass.

They seem to think they can have their cake and eat it too... This is where I draw the line and call BS on all these activists. They want all the rights of a woman by putting on their costume. Completely ridiculous.

At the elite athlete level no one except the truly fringe are arguing you should just be able to put on a dress and compete in the women’s division. The old rubric had you trying to level the playing field by being on either testosterone suppressors or post surgery if you were mtf. That assumption is being proven false because the so called scientific experts underestimate the effects of male puberty. It resulted in a similar problem in that they underestimated the means by which ftm could catch up while at the same time being ceilinged on the amount of testosterone they could take

Oh and btw the big problem with uterine transfers (which is why it’s been illegal and unethical to do it in the west) is we don’t have a whole lot of data on the effects of rejection medication let alone the surgery involved to hold the organ in place on fetuses.

 

[Noticer]

I come down with Jordan Peterson on this. No government should force you to use pronouns. However so long as they are generally recognized pronouns (he she they) and you don’t use someone’s preferred pronoun or name, you are an ass.


At the elite athlete level no one except the truly fringe are arguing you should just be able to put on a dress and compete in the women’s division. The old rubric had you trying to level the playing field by being on either testosterone suppressors or post surgery if you were mtf. That assumption is being proven false because the so called scientific experts underestimate the effects of male puberty. It resulted in a similar problem in that they underestimated the means by which ftm could catch up while at the same time being ceilinged on the amount of testosterone they could take

Oh and btw the big problem with uterine transfers (which is why it’s been illegal and unethical to do it in the west) is we don’t have a whole lot of data on the effects of rejection medication let alone the surgery involved to hold the organ in place on fetuses.

What a conundrum; "an ass" is something I don't identify as.

 

[Veritas]

I come down with Jordan Peterson on this. No government should force you to use pronouns. However so long as they are generally recognized pronouns (he she they) and you don’t use someone’s preferred pronoun or name, you are an ass.


At the elite athlete level no one except the truly fringe are arguing you should just be able to put on a dress and compete in the women’s division. The old rubric had you trying to level the playing field by being on either testosterone suppressors or post surgery if you were mtf. That assumption is being proven false because the so called scientific experts underestimate the effects of male puberty. It resulted in a similar problem in that they underestimated the means by which ftm could catch up while at the same time being ceilinged on the amount of testosterone they could take

Oh and btw the big problem with uterine transfers (which is why it’s been illegal and unethical to do it in the west) is we don’t have a whole lot of data on the effects of rejection medication let alone the surgery involved to hold the organ in place on fetuses.

Good point, Grace. I firmly believe that in the long run, the truth prevails, and nature will always assert itself. The most compelling argument we have is rooted in the irreversible changes that occur during puberty, particularly in biological males. These changes provide long-lasting physical advantages that cannot be undone, regardless of hormone therapy or transitioning procedures. It is this biological foundation that must be considered when determining fairness in competitive sports.

Now, the question arises: should this argument be evaluated on a sport by sport basis or applied universally across the entire women's category? To eliminate unnecessary complexity and nuances, I argue that it should apply across the board in all sports. The physiological differences between biological males and females affect performance in virtually every athletic discipline, from endurance and strength to speed and power. To make exceptions based on individual sports only complicates the core issue, an advantage rooted in biology is present regardless of the specific demands of a particular sport.

What we're confronting here goes deeper than just sports, it's about the conflict between biological realities and self-identification. I respect people's right to identify however they feel comfortable. If a biological female identifies as a man, she is a trans man; similarly, if a biological male identifies as a woman, he is a trans woman. However, this is where we see a contradiction. Why is a biological male who transitions into a woman called a trans woman rather than a trans man? Activists would reject that label, insisting that a trans woman is a woman.

By this same logic, I can then say that a trans woman is not a woman in the biological sense but is instead in the literal sense a trans woman, there's a critical distinction. What is happening here is a redefinition of terms that conflicts with nature and logic. The label of 'woman' carries biological significance, particularly in contexts like competitive sports, where biology fundamentally shapes the playing field. We can respect people's identities while also acknowledging that biology is the determining factor when it comes to fairness in athletic competition. Without this distinction, we risk undermining the very essence of what makes women's sports a level playing field for biological females.

 

[Grace T.]

Good point, Grace. I firmly believe that in the long run, the truth prevails, and nature will always assert itself. The most compelling argument we have is rooted in the irreversible changes that occur during puberty, particularly in biological males. These changes provide long-lasting physical advantages that cannot be undone, regardless of hormone therapy or transitioning procedures. It is this biological foundation that must be considered when determining fairness in competitive sports.

Now, the question arises: should this argument be evaluated on a sport by sport basis or applied universally across the entire women's category? To eliminate unnecessary complexity and nuances, I argue that it should apply across the board in all sports. The physiological differences between biological males and females affect performance in virtually every athletic discipline, from endurance and strength to speed and power. To make exceptions based on individual sports only complicates the core issue, an advantage rooted in biology is present regardless of the specific demands of a particular sport.

What we're confronting here goes deeper than just sports, it's about the conflict between biological realities and self-identification. I respect people's right to identify however they feel comfortable. If a biological female identifies as a man, she is a trans man; similarly, if a biological male identifies as a woman, he is a trans woman. However, this is where we see a contradiction. Why is a biological male who transitions into a woman called a trans woman rather than a trans man? Activists would reject that label, insisting that a trans woman is a woman.

By this same logic, I can then say that a trans woman is not a woman in the biological sense but is instead in the literal sense a trans woman, there's a critical distinction. What is happening here is a redefinition of terms that conflicts with nature and logic. The label of 'woman' carries biological significance, particularly in contexts like competitive sports, where biology fundamentally shapes the playing field. We can respect people's identities while also acknowledging that biology is the determining factor when it comes to fairness in athletic competition. Without this distinction, we risk undermining the very essence of what makes women's sports a level playing field for biological females.

1. Specific sports: I don’t think this is necessarily true and the advantage difference is going to be different by sports. For example, a biological male will likely be at a disadvantage in the grace sports (female figure skating, gymnastics, rhythmic gymnastics, artistic swim and cheerleading) not withstanding that they can complete a triple more easily.
2. Clarity and clear categories is not something that pops up very often under the disability rubric. It’s all about balancing. For example the federal government could have forced every home in America to install disability access bathrooms for some hypothetical future owner essentially amounting to a forced remodeling tax on every single property owner. It did not. It balanced the needs. This categorization battle is the all or nothing model adopted in the U.S. paradigm (but I note all or nothing cuts both ways and again you get what you vote for…sometimes hard…and no moving to Texas won’t save you this time)
3. I’ve already shown you the level playing field is a. A function of the particular rules, and b. Illusory. For example, unless you are testing for peds and hgh on the relevant sport, you don’t have a level playing field. And there are coexisting other concerns including participation (or womens sports would not exist at all and in fact that was the entire opposition to title ix) and efficiency (or we’d test all youth athletes and break up the age line not by age but relative age).

 

[crush]

According to Gemeni no Trans woman has been able to give birth. Only a trans man has been able to give birth but there is a doctor in India attempting to do the first uterus transplant on a trans woman. This is very confusing but it makes sense that a trans man was able to give birth because he is a biological female. My interpretation of this is that we have turned the man and woman reference into a costume legally & literally, a legal man or legal woman could be used as a fancy term for a costume nowadays that people try to wear and normalize in the process as trans woman and trans man. This is really bizarre and strange. But it’s for real Nature is nature and one cannot go against it and say this process is normal.

View attachment 22966View attachment 22967View attachment 22968

These two have some explaining to do. Dating contract from a PR firm says they will break things off at the end of the month. Who knows.

 

[watfly]

They seem to think they can have their cake and eat it too... This is where I draw the line and call BS on all these activists. They want all the rights of a woman by putting on their costume. Completely ridiculous.View attachment 22970

Their are actually sincere transgenders that aren't trying to exploit their transition or be in the spotlight. Some that you and I have likely passed in the street that we'd have not clue that they we're transgender. However, the activist community (and Bud Light in this case) want to promote the likes of Dylan Mulvaney, who is an actor that is a mocking caricature of a woman (i.e. a woman's costume). Talk about mansplaining and cultural misappropriation. We also have men that pretend to be transgender so they can rape woman in prison. I think both sides need to be careful not to lump transgenders in one category. (Not accusing you of doing so, just making a point).

 

[crush]

Their are actually sincere transgenders that aren't trying to exploit their transition or be in the spotlight. Some that you and I have likely passed in the street that we'd have not clue that they we're transgender. However, the activist community (and Bud Light in this case) want to promote the likes of Dylan Mulvaney, who is an actor that is a mocking caricature of a woman (i.e. a woman's costume). Talk about mansplaining and cultural misappropriation. We also have men that pretend to be transgender so they can rape woman in prison. I think both sides need to be careful not to lump transgenders in one category. (Not accusing you of doing so, just making a point).

100% brother. For example, no one wants the Christian Nationalist Family of believers to govern all of our lives and force us to church on Sunday at 10am, give 10%, date and marry only the Christian Nationalist girls or boys and you best better not be thinking of being gay or you will go to hell. The whole purpose of coming to earth is to explore new ideas, play in your shadow, play sports and be competitive and have fun. No one wants to be on earth where grown men with beards tell us their gurls and then are somehow allowed to ball with our daughters at the highest levels of sport for women and then be allowed to undress and take showers with the girls as the man's pistol is putting at the girls as they shower. This has to stop folks. One of my old dear church friends is a cross dresser and that's it.

 

[crush]

We also have men that pretend to be transgender so they can rape woman in prison. I think both sides need to be careful not to lump transgenders in one category. (Not accusing you of doing so, just making a point).

We also have men who pretend to be a politician's wife so they can both lie and cheat together and fool the nation. I did read where a guy was wanted in the girl's prison, so he faked being trans to have sex with all the ladies who wanted a man. Not all women prisoners are gay, so they tricked the system. The guy in question did a crime and then went to prison for a year or so as a MTF but not really, wink wink. He then got to have sex with some of the women. He basically had sex every day, sometime twice a day. Word gets around in girls' prison that someone has a pistol to play with. I have to find the link because I was beside myself when I read it. I then think of all the hard-working fathers who rarely have sex at all because their never home and wifey works to and their just super bust running the kids to school and soccer practice. Was this guy really in prison or gaming the system. You be the judge......

 

[crush]

One more thing about the prison system and how prisons work on the inside with the MTF. Women prison guards also had sex with this fake MTF and got in on the action. This is why Veritas is right. This guy was actually handsome as well and felt it was his duty to be of service to the girls. I will be searching for the article because it was insane, but it happens all the time.

 

[Slobodan]

I am reporting all of you. "How dare you" turn this into politics. Take it to The Kitchen. I'm calling Dom right now to snitch on you all, especially Veritas who started this thread. How dare you Veritas. I'm telling on you too

According to Gemeni no Trans woman has been able to give birth. Only a trans man has been able to give birth but there is a doctor in India attempting to do the first uterus transplant on a trans woman. This is very confusing but it makes sense that a trans man was able to give birth because he is a biological female. My interpretation of this is that we have turned the man and woman reference into a costume legally & literally, a legal man or legal woman could be used as a fancy term for a costume nowadays that people try to wear and normalize in the process as trans woman and trans man. This is really bizarre and strange. But it’s for real Nature is nature and one cannot go against it and say this process is normal.

View attachment 22966View attachment 22967View attachment 22968

Part of the mind numbing stupidity. He isn't a man and never will be.

 

[Slobodan]

I come down with Jordan Peterson on this. No government should force you to use pronouns. However so long as they are generally recognized pronouns (he she they) and you don’t use someone’s preferred pronoun or name, you are an ass.


At the elite athlete level no one except the truly fringe are arguing you should just be able to put on a dress and compete in the women’s division. The old rubric had you trying to level the playing field by being on either testosterone suppressors or post surgery if you were mtf. That assumption is being proven false because the so called scientific experts underestimate the effects of male puberty. It resulted in a similar problem in that they underestimated the means by which ftm could catch up while at the same time being ceilinged on the amount of testosterone they could take

Oh and btw the big problem with uterine transfers (which is why it’s been illegal and unethical to do it in the west) is we don’t have a whole lot of data on the effects of rejection medication let alone the surgery involved to hold the organ in place on fetuses.

I'll be an ass. When I see Jack Black in a summer dress, I'm referring to him as "he". I'm under no obligation to endorse the stupidity.

 

[Grace T.]

I'll be an ass. When I see Jack Black in a summer dress, I'm referring to him as "he". I'm under no obligation to endorse the stupidity.

Here's the problem with that line of thinking. Now, it may very well be you are right and that person is "crazy" or "mentally ill" or doing it just for the sake of pushing political boundaries. But when you do that, you are essentially saying "hey I'm brilliant and right and you are stupid". In a democracy you have a lot of stupid people...otherwise rent control wouldn't have survived. But the reason civil society works is we are prepared to respect the choices others make about how to live their lives (yes so long as it doesn't impact ours) and to treat them with the respect that an autonomous individual would be entitled to for said choices.

It's fundamentally the issue with postmodernism which believes all issues are based not on us as individuals, but the exercise of power between respective groups. Because then it just becomes about what the majority can cram down your throats (hey...I figured out why dad4 breaks on this issue and he's actually on my right here...we are both consistent on the liberty/authoritarian spectrum). Hence, why every election and court decision becomes existential. Which is fine, so long as you are prepared to take it good and hard if you lose. Because otherwise "to a dark place this leads you."

Which does bring to mind an interesting issue...the olympics are going to be held in Los Angeles...I wonder if some enterprising activists will figure out that given California's constitutional guarantees there's actually a huge chance for mischief here.

 

[Slobodan]

Here's the problem with that line of thinking. Now, it may very well be you are right and that person is "crazy" or "mentally ill" or doing it just for the sake of pushing political boundaries. But when you do that, you are essentially saying "hey I'm brilliant and right and you are stupid". In a democracy you have a lot of stupid people...otherwise rent control wouldn't have survived. But the reason civil society works is we are prepared to respect the choices others make about how to live their lives (yes so long as it doesn't impact ours) and to treat them with the respect that an autonomous individual would be entitled to for said choices.

It's fundamentally the issue with postmodernism which believes all issues are based not on us as individuals, but the exercise of power between respective groups. Because then it just becomes about what the majority can cram down your throats (hey...I figured out why dad4 breaks on this issue and he's actually on my right here...we are both consistent on the liberty/authoritarian spectrum). Hence, why every election and court decision becomes existential. Which is fine, so long as you are prepared to take it good and hard if you lose. Because otherwise "to a dark place this leads you."

Which does bring to mind an interesting issue...the olympics are going to be held in Los Angeles...I wonder if some enterprising activists will figure out that given California's constitutional guarantees there's actually a huge chance for mischief here.

No, Grace, I'm essentially saying even a Kindergartner knows you're Jack Black in a dress. And that kid is probably hoping he's doing it while filming a movie because it's hard enough growing up in 2024. You don't have to be brilliant to be right.

 

[Noticer]

100% brother. For example, no one wants the Christian Nationalist Family of believers to govern all of our lives and force us to church on Sunday at 10am, give 10%, date and marry only the Christian Nationalist girls or boys and you best better not be thinking of being gay or you will go to hell. The whole purpose of coming to earth is to explore new ideas, play in your shadow, play sports and be competitive and have fun. No one wants to be on earth where grown men with beards tell us their gurls and then are somehow allowed to ball with our daughters at the highest levels of sport for women and then be allowed to undress and take showers with the girls as the man's pistol is putting at the girls as they shower. This has to stop folks. One of my old dear church friends is a cross dresser and that's it.

Fair- but I'd rather live under Christian Nationalist overlords than Troon Nationalist overlords. Right now, the Troon Nationalists are ruling.

 

[Grace T.]

No, Grace, I'm essentially saying even a Kindergartner knows you're Jack Black in a dress. And that kid is probably hoping he's doing it while filming a movie because it's hard enough growing up in 2024. You don't have to be brilliant to be right.

Nope. In postmodern world you just need the most power to be right.

 

[crush]

Fair- but I'd rather live under Christian Nationalist overlords than Troon Nationalist overlords. Right now, the Troon Nationalists are ruling.

I agree if we only had two choices, I'll go with the Christian group any day. America is all about freedom. Free to choose and live by the choices you make but these radical MAP & Pedos snuck in high positions of power. They buy loser fathers to STFU because father needs to pay the bills. We've been sold out out by our own countrymen. Now those who have been bought and bribed with extra cash, have been blackmailed as well. It's bad bro and very dirty and if people speak up, their fired or killed or they & them will kill their child. That's why must of us SOFH's wondering why leaders would allow a grown ass man with a loaded pistol to enter our daughter's locker rooms. It's insane and only we the parents and the girls can do something about it. Many dads are wimps and afraid to lose it all. Our WNT have told us all, "we support all MTFs and welcome the first "Openly Male to female" player asap!" Megan can't wait to offer support to a man taking a girl's spot on the WNT. I don't give two cents want Surf Futbol thinks either, no man should replace a woman in sports, period.

 

[crush]

Warning to the sensitive fathers on here. Skip this post if you get triggered by politics

"My Democrat Opponent Ruben Gallego is the LEADING Champion of Men competing in Women’s sports. He fights to strip trophies, titles & scholarships from dedicated female athletes — in favor of biological men. I don’t want my daughter competing against men. Do you?" Kari Lake

Hell No!!!

 

[Karlton Athletic]

Kinda wish Musk would buy this forum so he can start charging for blue checks and we can then easily see which comments to skip.