PDA vs KC Athletics winner plays the winner of Eclipse vs Legends
Surf vs. Penn Fusion winner plays the winner of HBK vs. Solar
'23-'24 SoCal and National Forecast and Updates
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PDA vs KC Athletics winner plays the winner of Eclipse vs Legends
Surf vs. Penn Fusion winner plays the winner of HBK vs. Solar
Question for this group as a parent of a player that went through their first ECNL PLayoffs. So, I had some questions and gained a lot of great feedback about positioning my daughter in ECNL for a younger year by asking this age group. Several people mentioned the importance of going to playoffs and while I valued the experience, there were some real let downs.
First of all, I appreciate that parents can be buttholes and refs. don't need to take any flack, but I just expected decency for playoffs. First ref was so horrible, I think both coaches almost apologized to each other for the misfortune. He would call any contact and broke up the rhythm for both sides the whole game. The second one started ok, but gave away red cards like candy and we're on a team that needs more physicality out of our girls. The side refs were oblivious to offsides and allowed at least 1 goal from each side to stand after players were offsides.Third was very good and fair, Fourth called just about any contact like the first one and it led to about 11 set play opportunities for the other team.
This leads to my other complaint. The fields seemed very small compared to our league fields and were the youngest ECNL group. I can't imagine these fields seem big enough for 15 to 16 year olds? Every free kick on the opponent's side is a solid goal scoring opportunity. It just seemed like a small field battle with tight space and lots of fouls and free kick goals. Really sucked for having great competition imo, but maybe I'm missing something?
Next, no rules at playoffs for parents to stay on their own sides. We had obnoxious parents coming on our side coaching and celebrating which caused a lot of conflict and unpleasantness. To top it off, we played 2 teams from Ca. and one from the same county basically. While I was extremely proud and happy with my kid's team and parents, I lost a lot of respect for the playoff situation. More of concern to me was the time and cost for the opportunity. Thank God we're not going to Virginia, because I can't imagine it gets any better especially considering it's only 3 games, but you can basically save the cost of club soccer fees by not making playoffs and basically only miss 3 sub standard games imo.
Are all the playoffs like this? They need a certain amount of fields, so maybe they have to shrink the fields for this or maybe the smaller fields make the game more exciting? Maybe I need to look at this another way? Just curious if this was just a weird year or if this is always the case?
I can't help, but wonder if a team would be better served playing up in a tournament against better competition and staying home vs traveling for these playoffs?
First of all, I appreciate that parents can be buttholes and refs. don't need to take any flack, but I just expected decency for playoffs. First ref was so horrible, I think both coaches almost apologized to each other for the misfortune. He would call any contact and broke up the rhythm for both sides the whole game. The second one started ok, but gave away red cards like candy and we're on a team that needs more physicality out of our girls. The side refs were oblivious to offsides and allowed at least 1 goal from each side to stand after players were offsides.Third was very good and fair, Fourth called just about any contact like the first one and it led to about 11 set play opportunities for the other team.
This leads to my other complaint. The fields seemed very small compared to our league fields and were the youngest ECNL group. I can't imagine these fields seem big enough for 15 to 16 year olds? Every free kick on the opponent's side is a solid goal scoring opportunity. It just seemed like a small field battle with tight space and lots of fouls and free kick goals. Really sucked for having great competition imo, but maybe I'm missing something?
Next, no rules at playoffs for parents to stay on their own sides. We had obnoxious parents coming on our side coaching and celebrating which caused a lot of conflict and unpleasantness. To top it off, we played 2 teams from Ca. and one from the same county basically. While I was extremely proud and happy with my kid's team and parents, I lost a lot of respect for the playoff situation. More of concern to me was the time and cost for the opportunity. Thank God we're not going to Virginia, because I can't imagine it gets any better especially considering it's only 3 games, but you can basically save the cost of club soccer fees by not making playoffs and basically only miss 3 sub standard games imo.
Are all the playoffs like this? They need a certain amount of fields, so maybe they have to shrink the fields for this or maybe the smaller fields make the game more exciting? Maybe I need to look at this another way? Just curious if this was just a weird year or if this is always the case?
I can't help, but wonder if a team would be better served playing up in a tournament against better competition and staying home vs traveling for these playoffs?
Also and look I understand it's club soccer and very competitive, but so many players get very little play time as it's playoffs. The real irony is so many stay on super competitive teams to get this sub par playoff experience to only play a limited amount of time at the playoffs after spending small fortunes to get there? I saw several girls crying after games and I know many of these girls are going right back to these teams??? It is what it is, but maybe I'm mainly reaching out to those parents and teams that did not go to the playoffs with a message that you didn't miss a damn thing? I hear so much talk about burn out and it not being fun as I witnessed first hand so much of what is not fun about this experience.
The fields were absolutely too small. It looked like 11 players on a 9v9 field. As you note, the small fields caused a lot of unnecessary contact. I saw multiple late slide tackles from a team which normally plays a very nice possession game.
Last year was at Surf, on normal sized fields. Virginia Fields are also a good size. It's just Seattle and a few of the Phoenix fields that are so small.
rainbow_unicorn
PREMIER
Yes, fields are small and grass is thick at Seattle but have to learn how to adjust.
Our refs were fine for the most part. Have to deal with the fact that you won't always get the call.
Yes, it is expected that starters will get a lot more playing time at playoffs because every team there is there to win. Subs will get minutes during regular season and showcases.
Our refs were fine for the most part. Have to deal with the fact that you won't always get the call.
Yes, it is expected that starters will get a lot more playing time at playoffs because every team there is there to win. Subs will get minutes during regular season and showcases.
Super thick fields that make playing real soccer impossible. Adjust is understatement, especially for Socal teams who usually have really nice fields. Small fields suck. Ref is a coin flip. Happy to hear about the refs for your games. The hardest part for middle- and low-class families is the cost to play in the playoffs. Our team won it all in Seattle and we were rewarded to go play in Texas and won the natty in a 107 temps. The fact is you better have a lot of money or a line of credit to pay for travel playoffs. My wife's niece will most likely be up there in a few years and I already told my sister-in-law to start putting money away in a special "youth soccer playoff fund" to prepare for the cost.
My buddy who attended Seattle this past week told me for his kid and family 10k cost. Including airfare, car rental,hotel, food etc. now it will be another 5k in Virginia just dad and kid alone for a week.
The cost to win a natty today for a family of four from Socal is north of $25K now if they all go to VA. My old house in Temecula is now going for $922,000. The only way to avoid the cost is for your dd to earn a full ride and have her go alone Veritas. The poor are priced out and the middle class will dip into the rainy-day fund or put it on CC to earn points and hope dad gets that bonus he was promised to pay it off. The rich, they have plenty of play money and that's what the big problem is. It's not fair
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Yeah, sheeze! We limited our costs and went very conservatively and my kid's sibling gets a trip in return considering she deserves some family treasure as well, so it's never just the actual cost. Next year might be easier for us if the kids go alone though and then we can stream.
I remember Veritas and a few others mentioning the importance of playoffs and my team was fortunate enough to make them, so super proud to be on a team that was able to accomplish that. I will say that we got extra playoff training, extra club resources to show up and compete, and the kids earned a valuable experience, so I see the value.
My issue is that I figured we would have at least decent refs and fields. Depending on one's budget, money would be better spent on training, latin leagues, and future funding. What I'm really saying is I at least expect a pleasant playoff experience and it's a bigger circus than regular league. I can't get over how bad our refs were at playoffs and then no rules for where parents can cheer. I was just really let down with the organization of the playoff structure. To think there were 5 to 7 girls or more sitting on the bench more than playing makes me cringe! It's their money and time though, so it is what it is.
8 days off work and huge expense for 3 to 4 sub par organized games where ECNL forces you to stay at whatever hotel they choose is not a good deal for parents paying with this. I just feel trapped in this circus, but at least I know a few more things now. If my kid earns the playoffs, I'll make it happen, but Thank God she didn't earn Virginia and I hate thinking like a loser!
Honestly, my biggest takeaway is to avoid the highest level teams setting up going to Virginia if you're not a starter. It's one thing to go and at least play, but to go there to sit just to say you're on a high level team is not helping your kid grow as a player. I saw several girls on winning teams crying after games. It's definitely funner to win than lose, but part of competitive sports is losing and I'd rather my kid be playing and growing as a player and taking her losses, but she is never showing up to lose. There are just teams more unwilling to lose than hers and how blessed we are to get to compete against them!
Also, I will say out of state teams truly start stepping up in ECNL. You can't underestimate anyone at ECNL Playoffs!
Many areas still have all the spectators on one side. Mostly, it works. People talk to each other and it builds community. Same as going out to lunch together after a game.
The cost of that community is sometimes you have someone erupt into cheers when their daughter scores a goal against your daughter's team.
rainbow_unicorn
PREMIER
Are they flying first class and stay at Four Seasons?
Well also when games get physical and cheap shots start coming out from either side, parents get involved and then throw in the cheers for goals where refs totally miss an obvious offsides during these games where 1 team will advance. I've just never seen sherriffs at our regular league games or tournaments? Kind of silly to waste govt. resources when you can just separate emotional parents. We've seen one yellow card on our team the last year and a half and somehow we ended up with loads of cards there including reds that cost us players in crucial games. Just different, but it's not hard to separate parents. I've just never seen this no rules on where parents watch. Live and learn.
LA (not San Diego) refs tend to let a lot go. I don't know why this is. My theory is many of the refs are of Latin decent and grew up playing a more physical game so this is how they ref now.
I remember in one state cup a player literally grabbed my kids arm and did some kind of karate flip while they were on a breakaway for goal. No call + my daughter had to limp off the field to the nurses tent because they didn't stop play.
Seattle refs are likely on the other end of the spectrum. What you thought was hard play they saw as cleats up death kicks to the head.
Did you expect anything different from Pacific Northwest people. ;-)
Well, I learned a lot! : ) I just have this concern that they package these playoffs into certain cities that may not be able to handle the proper infrastructure for a good playoff experience. If you're training refs. a month before the event, you're not prepared to handle playoffs. We had one game where the side ref. missed an offsides right in front of her (and no way in hell could the center ref be trusted to see that) and ran with the offsides player ON OUR TEAM and no call! I get sometimes it's close and the game is fast and I even never expect good reffing let alone perfect, but I expect them to catch offsides at least 50% of the time. I mean this is playoffs and the girls worked hard to get here. The parents are paying a lot of money, yet treated like they owe someone something for this experience. It is what it is, but super unimpressed with ECNL Organization.
No idea how these leagues are ran or created, but So Cal can 100% get the best competition in the nation without traveling for sub par playoffs like this. Maybe that's what I take home from this experience? There are good out of state teams, but more than 2 from CA. are probably going to Virginia, because we have such great competition here in So Cal/Cal.
Now you know how/why people spend 20k+ on youth soccer a year.
Personally I'm a fan of just doing a Socal (and AZ, NV) vs Norcal (and CO UT OR WA) tournament and not worry about East Coast and Midwest clubs.
CA clubs gain little playing outside CA.
Everyone's perception on ECNL playoffs is based on their individual experiences and mine over the last few years couldn't be more different than yours, to be honest. My daughters have reached and exceeded their team and individual goals at playoffs and gained national recognition with scouts and recruiting services by playing in playoffs so I don't consider any of their experiences to have been sub par regardless of poor refs or field conditions.
I can understand complaints about travel, field conditions and refs, but unless they play every year in SD, those issues would remain. I have friends in the midwest, southeast and east who loved last year but paid twice as much for hotels and meals in Del Mar than they did Seattle. Some of their teams didn't win a match and they didn't have a great experience, but the teams who won and are going to Richmond have no complaints. Winning tends to help overlook costs and tournament deficiencies.
Fact is ECNL requires that the hosting complex has 30+ grass fields in one location and that limits the options available to less than five clubs, a few of which are located in areas that are not ideal for June playoffs due to heat and storm activity (including hurricanes) Everyone I know wishes Surf hosted every year, but we know how ECNL operates.
So scouts only look at the teams going to Virginia? There are over 330 NCAA D1 Schools and they only look at 88 players per age group? That's great you have no problem paying $10k or more for both playoff trips, but imagine if you saved just that over 4 years and put that towards a college fund getting 10% a year in interest/capital gains? I'll take the $50k and have control over where my daughter goes and she can go to any college soccer camp and still excel. What's more disturbing is if they are counting on finding great players with these fields with 20 set plays per game. I guess they will find the best set play girls that the top teams really practice on.
We're all stuck in the same circus. I'm just not naive enough to think that the $50k is better spent to get an eye from a scout out of Ca. as there are plenty of great colleges in Ca. that have loads of camps and ways to get seen. Being on a good team does not mean college scholarship, but it will get you an eye most likely.
So, here is my question. What if someone else's kid goes to 5 college soccer camps and shows up as well with skill, physicality, athleticism, and position dominance? Are they going to overlook that kid, because she didn't go to Virginia? Really? Maybe a coach can give a good word, but so can every other ECNL Coach and I guarantee loads of kids are getting scholarships that did not go to Virginia!??? Am I wrong? That's one very expensive pathway filled with another 50 kids or so who barely even touch the field and pay $50k. They could have been playing and training with another team and showing up prepared to dominate at the camps instead of hoping to be seen in Virginia.
This is a fallacy that coaches use. Sure, you're more likely to get a scholarship if you are on the top teams in Virginia, but you still have to show up to camp and perform well and there will be a ton more competition that have a lot of money saved from not going to Seattle or Viginia. Maybe you're wealthy and money isn't a concern? I'm good at math is all and there are a ton of D1 Teams.
Yes, sometimes it happens.
Unfortunately the youth club to college pathway has a lot of bends and twists. Some clubs have agreements with some colleges in place before players even apply. Some DOCs have the same type of connections. Some coaches have the same type of connections.
This is why many get fed up and just want true Acadamies to happen on the girls side.
A little math. 330 NCAA D1 girls college soccer teams. 88 starting players in Virginia. Advantage, sure, but at a $50k cost.
So, if every school has 3 or 4 scholarships (totally guessing here) to offer every year with 330 D1 teams, you get more than 1,000 potential scholarships more or less. So, you still have to worry about grades, burn out, and finishing their senior year with all it takes and with $50k less.
900 other scholarships will find other girls and those girls will have saved $50k to help pay for college as well?
My point is where is the $50k best spent. Good for you if you think 6 potential games out of state at the cost of $50k over 4 years is a better use for your potential college athlete. 2 years of free community college and that $50k can probably get you a degree from UCLA without soccer!
I will concede everyone different, but I will also concede many people I know don't even own homes going through these decisions. Don't drink the kool aid if you can't afford it!
All I hear about is burn out and they want to have fun in high school, so just understand probability and best use of money is all I'm saying. You don't need Virginia is your kid is a baller and more than anything, WANTS TO STILL PLAY AND DOMINATE after those stressful tournaments and constant pressure filled events.